yazzman Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 i know there is a lot of debate on who is baseball's best player. i am looking for your opinions on the five best players and pitchers you would start a team around. you have to factor in age , attitude and all that as well. that is why guy like bonds , schilling , pedro are not on this list . Players1 albert pujols2 alex rodriguez3 vlad guerrero 4 todd heltonPitchers1 mark prior2 jason schmidt3 kerry wood4 roy halladay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolahotass Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Originally posted by yazzman Pitchers1 mark prior2 jason schmidt3 kerry wood4 roy halladay You forgot World Series/MVP champ - JOSH BECKETT:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codica3 Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 If you're looking for the best players in baseball, I don't think you can disqualify someone just because you don't like his attitude.Pedro has an attitude, yes. You may not like him cause of his attitude, fine.But you can't deny he's one of the absolute best pitchers in baseball right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 pedro is a very good pitcher and can dominate , but as everyone knows he is a whiny little primadonna who can only go 6 2/3 innings , misses a ton of games a year ...and more impoortantly is only a .500 pitcher against the YanksI would take any of the pitchers named above over Pedro right now at this point in all their careers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigger55 Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Originally posted by bxbomb pedro is a very good pitcher and can dominate , but as everyone knows he is a whiny little primadonna who can only go 6 2/3 innings , misses a ton of games a year ...and more impoortantly is only a .500 pitcher against the YanksI would take any of the pitchers named above over Pedro right now at this point in all their careers 6 2/3 innings of pedro is more than enough. Also, who cares about .500 against the yankees, they're only one team, and a very good one at that, can't expect him to just blow them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 no really jason"I have had one good year" schmidt over pedro you are insanekerry wood was like 14 and 11 last year with an era over 3I would take prior out of that group and that is about it.maybe you do not like pedro but come on. The fact he is a 500 against the yankees is not all his fault. He has lost alot of games 2-1 or 3-2. Let me put it this way the bullpen lost 7 games for pedro last year, he should of been 21-4 and winner of the cy young award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 i might give you schmidt at this point only cuz hes comin off injury, has had good yrs the past 3 since being on a good team in SF and away from that shitty team in Pitt. 6 2/3 innings and not being able to go every 5th day is a major factor to me as well and what is the whole point of their season? to get past the Yanks right ? If he is such a dominant pitcher he should be better than .500 against a division rival that you noww play almost 20x ayearand as the thread asked if you factor in age etc. at this point in their careers Im takin schmidt .......imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magellanmax Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Originally posted by bxbomb I would take any of the pitchers named above over Pedro right now at this point in all their careers you are such a ray of sunshine i bet if pedro played for the yamkees, you would line up ova at the bronx to suck his nuts. Gimme a friggin break.... guy doesnt play a # of games due to some understandable reasons per his contract and you knock him for not playing all games ?? you need to up your medications commissioner.... i know your are relying on the media reports of him not playing some games a couple of years back cos he wanted to keep his #s up and win the cy award... its no wonder how you reply to alotta posts..you are cluless in alot of stuff you rant about... but then again, what world doesnt have its fair share of knuckleheads ?Pedro is a world class pitcher..i know, i know its hard to swallow the fact..get over it... ask anybody who has an unbiased opinion... Pedro is hands down, one of the best pitchers if not the best in MLB right now... you can spew your hatred induced rants..doesnt change the fact...If Pedro had left the game during the ALCS game 7 and let some closer do his thing... you would be in a mental institution heavily sedated. Find something constructive to argue about coz this topic is way outta your league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yazzman Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 i read the responses to my post and i wanted to clarify that in the post i said players you would want to start your team around if you were starting it today . pedro martinez was left off because of age not what he does against the yankees i could care less . he is still unreal , but if starting a team today you are going to take guys like wood and prior who have 6-9more years of playing in them then pedro . definitely if i meant best players today pedro would be on there . my response on jason schmidt is the he is 37-13 in his last 50 decisions and has the ability to dominate a game against any team . guys like jaime moyer win every year but are not game changers and dominators like schmidt and after he wins 20 if healthy more of the public will understand that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Thank you Yazz for clarifying the initial purpose of the post for Magmax the Krylon Kid, who seems to be very high everytime he posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Originally posted by magellanmax you are such a ray of sunshine i bet if pedro played for the yamkees, you would line up ova at the bronx to suck his nuts. Gimme a friggin break.... guy doesnt play a # of games due to some understandable reasons per his contract and you knock him for not playing all games ?? you need to up your medications commissioner.... i know your are relying on the media reports of him not playing some games a couple of years back cos he wanted to keep his #s up and win the cy award... its no wonder how you reply to alotta posts..you are cluless in alot of stuff you rant about... but then again, what world doesnt have its fair share of knuckleheads ?Pedro is a world class pitcher..i know, i know its hard to swallow the fact..get over it... ask anybody who has an unbiased opinion... Pedro is hands down, one of the best pitchers if not the best in MLB right now... you can spew your hatred induced rants..doesnt change the fact...If Pedro had left the game during the ALCS game 7 and let some closer do his thing... you would be in a mental institution heavily sedated. Find something constructive to argue about coz this topic is way outta your league. Son, just give it up already , Until you decide to answer all my questions from previous posts , and stop making a fool of youself on this board regarding baseball, Stay out of these conversations because you have no credibilty at all.just go back and read allyour posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgym Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Soriano should be in that list Not only did Sandy Koufax say he has some of the quickest hands he'd ever seen, he's a 40/40 threat EVERY year. He's def. top 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainpec Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Pedro has and never will be a big game pitcher. What constitutes a "best" pitcher is someone who doesn't look like an ace against teams like Milwaukee, but rather that can shut down batters at will. Additionally - a "best" pitcher can go the distance and unfortunately Pedro runs out of steam after 6-7 innings (no one is perfect). Aside from injuries, I would take Randy Johnson against Pedro Martinez anyday. Throughout the 90's he dominated batters and set the pace for most games... do you not recall John Kruk facing him... funniest thing I've ever seen. I would even go so far as to say (and that is considering the guys age) Clemens is better than Pedro.And I agree attitude shouldn't be factored in the equation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 He struck out 17 and pitched a one hitter at yankee stadium against a team that went on to win the world series, not quite milwaukee.lets see last year he lost four games, he also beat minny, the yankees, and seattle. He had a better record against winning teams then the other pitchers and a lower era against teams with winning records.Ok he threw 3 cg last year the same as prior.1 less the wood.2 less then schmidthalladay had 9. That is alot. He also led the american league in strike outs, while pitching less innnings.scmidt has never won 20 games also ast year was his first year of an era lower then 3pedro has not had an era over 3 in 9 years.Like I said i will give you prior he has mad skills, but halladay was almost cut before last season so lets see what he does this year before we appoint him to the hall. His era was 3.50 or something like that. His offence helped him more then anything.All i am saying is if you give up less then 3 runs a game, you should win 20 games. Our bullpen sucked and we never hit for petey. Lets not say he is washed up yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainpec Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by jtk4 He struck out 17 and pitched a one hitter at yankee stadium against a team that went on to win the world series, not quite milwaukee.lets see last year he lost four games, he also beat minny, the yankees, and seattle. He had a better record against winning teams then the other pitchers and a lower era against teams with winning records.Ok he threw 3 cg last year the same as prior.1 less the wood.2 less then schmidthalladay had 9. That is alot. He also led the american league in strike outs, while pitching less innnings.scmidt has never won 20 games also ast year was his first year of an era lower then 3pedro has not had an era over 3 in 9 years.Like I said i will give you prior he has mad skills, but halladay was almost cut before last season so lets see what he does this year before we appoint him to the hall. His era was 3.50 or something like that. His offence helped him more then anything.All i am saying is if you give up less then 3 runs a game, you should win 20 games. Our bullpen sucked and we never hit for petey. Lets not say he is washed up yet. Randy Johnson was injured last year, so let's use his 2002 stats for comparison:SEASON STATS............................Pedro 03...Pedro 02....Randy 02Strikeouts................206...........239.............334Complete Games.......3...............2.................8Innings.....................187...........199.............260ERA...........................2.22..........2.26............2.32Wins...........................14.............20................25Shutouts......................0..............0...................4CAREER STATSWorld Series Rings.......0...............0.................1Beat the Yankeeswhen it counted -WS...No.............No...............Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magellanmax Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by bxbomb Son, just give it up already , Until you decide to answer all my questions from previous posts , and stop making a fool of youself on this board regarding baseball, Stay out of these conversations because you have no credibilty at all.just go back and read allyour posts Are you ignorant, retarded or just plain stupid I dont have to reread my posts...I stand by what i posted numbnuts, ..a). Georgieboy is a carpetbagger. The yamkees buy WS "championships" and my all time favorite....c). You are a bonafide idiot for trying to justify the obvious by qouting stats locked up in some yamkee fan website to try to come off as a 'knowledgeable fan'. Sorry sucker, i will live to be 90 years old and i will never admit to yamkee fan rhetoric.*~Bought Any Championships Lately??~*P.S... Everybody knows Sheff has a bum finger....watch for the inside pitches that will reduce his THG ass striking out more than soriano :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Randy Johnson was injured last year, so let's use his 2002 stats for comparison:SEASON STATS............................Pedro 03...Pedro 02....Randy 02Strikeouts................206...........239.............334Complete Games.......3...............2.................8Innings.....................187...........199.............260ERA...........................2.22..........2.26............2.32Wins...........................14.............20................25Shutouts......................0..............0...................4CAREER STATSWorld Series Rings.......0...............0.................1Beat the Yankeeswhen it counted -WS...No.............No...............YesDidn't they win in 2001 not 2002.Didn't he lose to the yankees in 95 when he was with seattle?He had 100 more strike outs in the national league in 60 more innings not really impressed. Curt also helped them win, if it was just him he would of lost.Don't get me wrong he is a nasty one of a kind pitcher but so is pedro. As much as you do not want to admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainpec Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by jtk4 Didn't they win in 2001 not 2002.Didn't he lose to the yankees in 95 when he was with seattle?He had 100 more strike outs in the national league in 60 more innings not really impressed. Curt also helped them win, if it was just him he would of lost.Don't get me wrong he is a nasty one of a kind pitcher but so is pedro. As much as you do not want to admit it. Do you even watch baseball? How the hell did Schilling help him in his games pitching? The boy has been great way before getting to Arizona...In 1995 - HE WON TWO GAMES AGAINST THE YANKEES YOU @$$!HE WAS ALSO THE REASON THE YANKEES DIDN'T ADVANCE IN THE PLAYOFFS - AND ONE REASON WHY HIS ARM ISN'T 100% ANYMORE BECAUSE SEATLLE REPEATEDLY WOULD OVERUSED HIM IN THE POSTSEASON...Please stay out of the sports forum... you are the weakest link. Goodbye.PS - he pitched "100 more innings" since he is a real starter... "relievers" are the ones that can't make it into the 7th inning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 That is why i ASKED if he lost to the yanks. I was not sure I am not a huge seattle of yankee fan so i probably was not paying attention. Just like I asked when they won i thought it was 2001.He pitched 100 more innings and had 5 more starts. The point i was making is that their k per nine innings was almost the same and pedro doesn't get to pitch to pitchers.Starters go an average of 6.4 ininngs that is the way it goes. Not many starters go the distance anymore.check all the yanks from last year for an example:clemons averaged 6.3mussina averaged 6.9pettite averaged 6.3pedro averaged 6.4 I guess those guys are relievers tooWhat i was saying about the ring is that curt helped him win the ring and that randy couldn't do it by himself, not that curt was out there with him or something. Other then that you are an asshat!!!!! And good reference to a tv how that isn't on anymore, you should get points for that pretty original. You are the weakest link no really thats funny. You must be a hit at partys with your up to date humor. :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainpec Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by jtk4 That is why i ASKED if he lost to the yanks. I was not sure I am not a huge seattle of yankee fan so i probably was not paying attention. Just like I asked when they won i thought it was 2001.He pitched 100 more innings and had 5 more starts. The point i was making is that their k per nine innings was almost the same and pedro doesn't get to pitch to pitchers.Starters go an average of 6.4 ininngs that is the way it goes. Not many starters go the distance anymore.check all the yanks from last year for an example:clemons averaged 6.3mussina averaged 6.9pettite averaged 6.3pedro averaged 6.4 I guess those guys are relievers tooWhat i was saying about the ring is that curt helped him win the ring and that randy couldn't do it by himself, not that curt was out there with him or something. Other then that you are an asshat!!!!! And good reference to a tv how that isn't on anymore, you should get points for that pretty original. You are the weakest link no really thats funny. You must be a hit at partys with your up to date humor. :laugh: Your come back is weak...1. Clemens is over 40 years old...2. Clemens and Petite are all around 4.00 ERA's... obviously they are going to be pulled out of the game by their manager sooner when they are getting rocked. They did not have 2.30 ERA's and were never included in the "best pitchers" of baseball analysis... nor should they be... Obviously unless you are a creaton - you would understand that a Boston manager/pitching coach isn't going to pull Pedro from a game if the guy has a 2.30 ERA... he is coming out himself for the most part since he is running out of gas.3. Obviously if you have your choice of two pitchers - Martinez or Johnson... who would you choose? Someone that can pitch only 200 innings a season or someone that can give you 300? Which one is more valuable to your franchise? Wake up...Aside from that I was called an asshat (good kindergarden school word) and I had trouble understanding your rambling... stay on point and you'll do fine kiddo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 i am sure asshat was not used until office space came out so I do not think you were in kindergarden.What I am saying is that 98% of pitchers in mlb go on average 6.3 innings. That makes them normal, the other 2% are not normal. In that case pedro is a normal pitcher, but the fact he has the lowest era, most strikeouts, highest winning %, most strikeout per nine innings, makes him better then 98% of the pitchers.We will see how randy does on his repaired knee this year.Also randy is a 6-7 lefty who throws 100 mph.pedro is a 5-9 righty who tops out at 94.Randy should have more strikeouts, and a lower era. Pedro actually has to pitch smarter because he can wind back and throw a 100 mph bb. Its like you are comparing ichiro and bonds and saying ichiro sucks because he can not hit homeruns. Do not get me wrong he is nasty, i want him on my team. I just think pedro is in the same catagory.And randy johnson is the ugliest motherfucker in the major league if he was not playing baseball he would be living in a trailer making meth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by magellanmax Are you ignorant, retarded or just plain stupid I dont have to reread my posts...I stand by what i posted numbnuts, ..a). Georgieboy is a carpetbagger. The yamkees buy WS "championships" and my all time favorite....c). You are a bonafide idiot for trying to justify the obvious by qouting stats locked up in some yamkee fan website to try to come off as a 'knowledgeable fan'. Sorry sucker, i will live to be 90 years old and i will never admit to yamkee fan rhetoric.*~Bought Any Championships Lately??~*P.S... Everybody knows Sheff has a bum finger....watch for the inside pitches that will reduce his THG ass striking out more than soriano :laugh: Keep on sinking what ever credibilty you thought youdid have assbagJohn Henry is the carpet bagger which you didnt even know till i brought it up for your ignorant ass, cuz you never would have brought up this completely irrelevant point.NO team buys a champiionship in any sport ...proven year in and year out...Yankees have more homegrown talent on their roster than the 2nd highest payroll free agent grabbin redsux....When wil that point ever sink into your krylon laden headANd dude give it up already "quoting stats from a yankee website" WOw your a paranoid mofo , naybe you should read up on some of these mythical sites so at least you can come prepared to defend your redsuxHEres a few others you seem to not want to respond to George voted for a salary cap We rape the Oakland As....but where did foulke and damon come from???Ill have to go back and reread some of your other pathetic rants and call you out on them later Oh yeah heres one more stat i found on this secret underground website for idiots like me who dont know baseball but want to impress people .....here it is are you ready?the redsox havnt won a fuckin thing since 1918..shhhhhh dont tell alot of people it still a secret and im gonna claim it as my own statoh yeah and Sheff had the same injury all second half of last year ...gee it rellay hurt his stats...DICK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainpec Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by jtk4 i am sure asshat was not used until office space came out so I do not think you were in kindergarden.What I am saying is that 98% of pitchers in mlb go on average 6.3 innings. That makes them normal, the other 2% are not normal. In that case pedro is a normal pitcher, but the fact he has the lowest era, most strikeouts, highest winning %, most strikeout per nine innings, makes him better then 98% of the pitchers.We will see how randy does on his repaired knee this year.Also randy is a 6-7 lefty who throws 100 mph.pedro is a 5-9 righty who tops out at 94.Randy should have more strikeouts, and a lower era. Pedro actually has to pitch smarter because he can wind back and throw a 100 mph bb. Its like you are comparing ichiro and bonds and saying ichiro sucks because he can not hit homeruns. Do not get me wrong he is nasty, i want him on my team. I just think pedro is in the same catagory.And randy johnson is the ugliest motherfucker in the major league if he was not playing baseball he would be living in a trailer making meth. Hey watch it there! Don't make fun of the red neck I will agree he is hideous... I like your arguement now... more rational. But both pitchers are different in style of course. Randy is a pure power pitcher while Pedro has more finese in his game... both styles work for both guys (I wouldn't go so far as to say Randy should have more strikeouts since Pedro has a lot more stuff to break some's neck - for example cutters, changeup, etc.). Point taken - I think you mis-interpret what I am saying and maybe I came off that way. I think both guys are great pitchers (I have respect for Martinez - but I don't think he can win the big games when they really count - I was proven right in the PS this past year). I would rather have Randy Johnson on my team simply because he can go the distance longer, which is key now-a-days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainpec Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Originally posted by bxbomb Keep on sinking what ever credibilty you thought youdid have assbag :laugh: Isn't he in the negative column already. Boston fans don't even stick up for him anymore since he makes no sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 i fel sorry for the real redsox fans...I absolutelty love the game , the yanks, and the rivalry ,I go to Boston 1x a yr for games and am in awe of the atmosphere very year , and "fighting" with bosox fans is part of the fun...but when asses like Magmax start spewing shit about shit and then when called out on it , run away from the topic it def . gets annoying ad needs to be regulated...YEr right I think even Jonstephen is emabarrased by this guy . 'bandwagon" yank fans are out there too and i shudder when i hear some of them open their mouths...but when it comes down to it the whole thing is I if was a redsox fan i would know when to stfu because i havnt won a damn thing in ahundred yrs and am constatntly gettin a beatdown by the Yanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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