The Iraqi prisoners...

[jamiroguy1]

Is it abuse or torture?

[kramadas]

Hmmm...wonder if g-skank and co will answer that with "its ALL the Palestinians fault"!

[normalnoises]

Is it abuse or torture?

Both.

[xpyrate]

all the pro-war ppl seem to argue how bad saddam is because how he treated his prisoners, now we go and do the same things. thnx to bush we have become no better than saddam.

[daprofessional]

shut the hell up already, this was an isolated incident and the soldiers responsible for these despicable acts will face severe punishment.

What I hate about you stupid deluded liberals is that you don't shut about things that don't deserve as much scrutiny as this is getting.

ok, they abused some iraqi prisoners and will be court martialed and jailed. end of story.

this isn't torture and it is not the end of the world.

I wanna see you idiots get all riled up over a suicide bomber.

crazy liberal fucks, this is why you guys are losing the election this november and will lose in 2008 (thanks to Hillary). LOL, who the hell picks a pandering bitch like Hillary as their candidate?!

[tasrit]

ok, they abused some iraqi prisoners and will be court martialed and jailed. end of story.

this isn't torture and it is not the end of the world.

Saddam Hussein could learn a lot of those soldiers about how to "abuse" a prisoner

[howardstone]

oh there just playing games with them, thats all...

In the 1st picture there just playing walk the dog.

In the 2nd picture there playing naked twister.

and in the 3rd picture they are reinacting the Blair Witch Project

all harmless fun.

[jamiroguy1]

shut the hell up already, this was an isolated incident...

Bullshit. This isn't an isolated incident.

[howardstone]

Bullshit. This isn't an isolated incident.

oh yes it was, give it up already

[tasrit]

oh there just playing games with them, thats all...

In the 1st picture there just playing walk the dog.

In the 2nd picture there playing naked twister.

and in the 3rd picture they are reinacting the Blair Witch Project

all harmless fun.

just sick

[kramadas]

shut the hell up already, this was an isolated incident and the soldiers responsible for these despicable acts will face severe punishment.

What I hate about you stupid deluded liberals is that you don't shut about things that don't deserve as much scrutiny as this is getting.

ok, they abused some iraqi prisoners and will be court martialed and jailed. end of story.

this isn't torture and it is not the end of the world.

I wanna see you idiots get all riled up over a suicide bomber.

crazy liberal fucks, this is why you guys are losing the election this november and will lose in 2008 (thanks to Hillary). LOL, who the hell picks a pandering bitch like Hillary as their candidate?!

And a suicide bomber isn't the end of the world either, right?

What really strikes me about your specific type of right-wingers is the amount of double standards and racism prevalent in your train of thought.

And we'll see about winning the election...read the article I just posted about the conservatives being unhappy with Bush.

[howardstone]

just sick

why thank you

[bigpoppanils]

And a suicide bomber isn't the end of the world either, right?

What really strikes me about your specific type of right-wingers is the amount of double standards and racism prevalent in your train of thought.

And we'll see about winning the election...read the article I just posted about the conservatives being unhappy with Bush.

its going to be very close.

the AP released its estimates of the solid and leaning Democrat & GOP states.

the AP estimates that Kerry has 205 electoral votes in his grasp, as does Bush.

[mrmatas2277]

oh there just playing games with them, thats all...

In the 1st picture there just playing walk the dog.

In the 2nd picture there playing naked twister.

and in the 3rd picture they are reinacting the Blair Witch Project

all harmless fun.

LMAO....

[mrmatas2277]

Saddam Hussein could learn a lot of those soldiers about how to "abuse" a prisoner

[vicman]

oh yes it was, give it up already

it sure doesn't seem like it.

[kramadas]

The Brits are a part of this as well, and in fact, have killed prisoners this way. They need to fry a few to get damage control underway...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&e=3&u=/nm/20040510/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_dc_39

LONDON (Reuters) - The Red Cross saw U.S. troops keeping Iraqi prisoners naked for days in darkness at the Abu Ghraib jail last October and was told by an intelligence officer in charge it was "part of the process," a report leaked on Monday said.

The 24-page report added to the pressure on U.S. officials by revealing that commanders were alerted to apparent abuses at Abu Ghraib months before they opened a criminal investigation.

The Red Cross, which has special access to war zone prisons under international treaties, said mistreatment of prisoners "went beyond exceptional cases and might be considered as a practice tolerated by the CF (Coalition Forces)."

Abuse was "in some cases tantamount to torture."

Although most of the Red Cross's observations concerned U.S. forces, it also piled pressure on Washington's closest ally, describing British troops forcing Iraqi detainees to kneel and stomping on their necks in an incident in which one died.

The International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva confirmed that the confidential February 4 report, initially leaked on the Web site of The Wall Street Journal, was genuine.

During a visit to Abu Ghraib in October, Red Cross delegates witnessed "the practice of keeping persons deprived of their liberty completely naked in totally empty concrete cells and in total darkness," the report said.

"Upon witnessing such cases, the ICRC interrupted its visits and requested an explanation from the authorities. The military intelligence officer in charge of the interrogation explained that this practice was 'part of the process'."

Delegates met prisoners who were being held naked in complete darkness. Others were forced to wear women's underwear.

PICTURES

The Red Cross's visit took place two months before pictures were taken of U.S. troops abusing prisoners, which later led to criminal charges against seven soldiers. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said he was unaware of abuse until the investigation into the pictures was launched in January.

Those pictures appeared in the media last month, causing international outrage and prompting apologies by President Bush (news - web sites) and other senior officials. However, Washington has said it believed the practices were isolated incidents of aberrant behavior by individuals and not usual practice.

Although much of the abuse described in the report appears to have taken place in jails run by U.S. forces, the report also describes the death of an Iraqi prisoner in custody in the British zone of Basra last September.

The victim's name is blacked out, but Britain's defense ministry said it referred to detainee Baha Musa, whose death Britain says it has been investigating since last year.

The Red Cross report described him as one of nine men arrested in a Basra hotel and "made to kneel, face and hands against the ground, as if in a prayer position. The soldiers stamped on the back of the neck of those raising their head."

His death certificate said he died of a heart attack, although witnesses saw a body with a broken nose and ribs.

The Red Cross said it had repeatedly brought allegations of mistreatment to the attention of the authorities. In some cases, they changed practices. For example, they stopped issuing wristbands marked "terrorist" to all foreign detainees.

The report says prison guards often opened fire with live ammunition on detainees who "were unarmed and did not appear to pose any serious threat to anyone's life."

Among "serious violations of international humanitarian law" the report listed a failure to set up a system to notify family members of arrests, resulting "in the de facto 'disappearance' of the arrestee for weeks or months."

"The uncaring behavior of the CF (Coalition Forces) and their inability to quickly provide accurate information on persons deprived of their liberty for the families concerned also seriously affects the image of the Occupying Powers among the Iraqi population," it said.

[daprofessional]

And a suicide bomber isn't the end of the world either, right?

What really strikes me about your specific type of right-wingers is the amount of double standards and racism prevalent in your train of thought.

And we'll see about winning the election...read the article I just posted about the conservatives being unhappy with Bush.

a suicide bomber killing innocent kids in a disco, or restaurant, or bus, or any other public leisure environment is a hell of a lot more serious than some prisoners being abused.

they'll live, the kids who get killed by these fucking "martyrs" won't.

[kramadas]

a suicide bomber killing innocent kids in a disco, or restaurant, or bus, or any other public leisure environment is a hell of a lot more serious than some prisoners being abused.

they'll live, the kids who get killed by these fucking "martyrs" won't.

same shit dude. Nice try trying to justify that as being worse, but absolutely worthless.

ITs not a "few" prisoners...read the articles I've posted, and then read it again in case it does not sink in properly. At leat 10 other facilites have complaints..also about 85-90% of those arrested are mistakenly done so.

Sounds like some of the shit that Israeli soldiers do in the OT. I'd like you to try justify that too.

[kramadas]

GENEVA - U.S. military personnel singled out senior officials of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime for special abuse in coalition prison, including solitary confinement for months on end, The Associated Press has learned.

AP Photo

AP Photo

Slideshow: Abuse of Iraqi Prisoners

Latest headlines:

· 275,000 signatures on Kerry petition for Rumsfeld to resign

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Reuters - 21 minutes ago

Special Coverage

The Iraqi officials were identified only as "high-value detainees" in a confidential report by the International Committee of the Red Cross.

The report did not specify who the detainees were, but an official who has discussed the document with ICRC officials told The Associated Press that they include many from the Pentagon (news - web sites)'s 55 most-wanted suspects in a "deck of cards" the U.S. military released during the war that ousted Saddam last year.

"Since June 2003 over a hundred 'high-value detainees' have been held for nearly 23 hours a day in strict solitary confinement in small concrete cells devoid of daylight," said the report, which was given to coalition forces in February.

"Their continued internment several months after their arrest in strict solitary confinement constituted a serious violation of the third and fourth Geneva Conventions," said the 24-page report, confirmed by the ICRC as authentic after it was published by The Wall Street Journal Monday.

ICRC officials refused to comment on the contents of the report or identify the prisoners, but the official who spoke to AP on condition of anonymity said that detainees being held at Baghdad International Airport include many of the 44 "deck of cards" suspects already captured.

It was not clear whether Saddam, who is the Ace of Spades in the "deck of cards," was himself at the airport, but the ICRC has disclosed that it visited him in coalition detention somewhere in Iraq (news - web sites) last month.

"This regime of complete isolation strictly prohibited any contact with other persons deprived of their liberty, guards, family members (except through Red Cross messages) and the rest of the outside world," the report said. "Even spouses and members of the same family were subject to this regime."

"High-value detainees" whose investigations were near an end were said to be allowed to exercise together outside the cells for 20 minutes twice a day or go to the showers or toilets together.

The ICRC report said the agency was told that in general that the prisoner abuse in Iraq by U.S. military personnel is "part of the process" during interrogation.

The report said ICRC delegates saw U.S. military intelligence officers mistreating prisoners under interrogation at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad and collected allegations of abuse at more than 10 other detention facilities, including the military intelligence section at Camp Cropper at the Baghdad airport and the Tikrit holding area.

The report cites abuses — some "tantamount to torture" — including brutality, hooding, humiliation and threats of "imminent execution."

"These methods of physical and psychological coercion were used by the military intelligence in a systematic way to gain confessions and extract information and other forms of cooperation from person who had been arrested in connection with suspected security offenses or deemed to have an 'intelligence value.'"

It said some coalition military intelligence officers estimated that "between 70 percent and 90 percent of the persons deprived of their liberty in Iraq had been arrested by mistake. They also attributed the brutality of some arrests to the lack of proper supervision of battle group units."

The agency said arrests allegedly tended to follow a pattern.

"Arresting authorities entered houses usually after dark, breaking down doors, waking up residents roughly, yelling orders, forcing family members into one room under military guard while searching the rest of the house and further breaking doors, cabinets and other property," the report said.

"Sometimes they arrested all adult males present in a house, including elderly, handicapped or sick people," it said. "Treatment often included pushing people around, insulting, taking aim with rifles, punching and kicking and striking with rifles."

The report also cited widespread abuse of power and ill-treatment by Iraqi law enforcement officers under the coalition, including extorting money from people in their custody by threatening to hand them over to coalition authorities. Under the Geneva Conventions, the coalition is responsible for the Iraqi officers' behavior, the report said.

U.S. President George W. Bush (news - web sites) said the mistreatment "was the wrongdoing of a few," but the Red Cross report backs up with detail the neutral agency's contention that the abuse was broad and part of a system, "not individual acts."

"ICRC delegates directly witnessed and documented a variety of methods used to secure the cooperation of the persons deprived of their liberty with their interrogators," said the report.

The delegates saw how detainees were kept "completely naked in totally empty concrete cells and in total darkness," the report said.

"Upon witnessing such cases, the ICRC interrupted its visits and requested an explanation from the authorities," the report said. "The military intelligence officer in charge of the interrogation explained that this practice was 'part of the process.'"

This apparently meant that detainees were progressively given clothing, bedding, lighting and other items in exchange for cooperation, it said.

It said it found evidence supporting prisoners' allegations of other forms of abuse during arrest, initial detention and interrogation.

Among the evidence were burns, bruises and other injuries consistent with the abuse prisoners alleged, it said.

Once the detainees were moved to regular prison facilities the abuses typically stopped, it said.

[daprofessional]

same shit dude. Nice try trying to justify that as being worse, but absolutely worthless.

ITs not a "few" prisoners...read the articles I've posted, and then read it again in case it does not sink in properly. At leat 10 other facilites have complaints..also about 85-90% of those arrested are mistakenly done so.

Sounds like some of the shit that Israeli soldiers do in the OT. I'd like you to try justify that too.

you're seriously equating the humiliation of prisoners to the mindless and gruesome slaughter of innocent people who were targeted by a sucide bomber?

[kramadas]

you're seriously equating the humiliation of prisoners to the mindless and gruesome slaughter of innocent people who were targeted by a sucide bomber?

So, you're saying humiliation, torture, and murder are not mindless and gruesome?

I'm saying they're both bad, but for some reason you find it hard to condemn what happened. Funny thing, is if these were Israelis being tortured by Palestinians (in many cases innocent Israelis), you'd be all up in arms about it.

[xpyrate]

this was an isolated incident

one could say the same of 9/11

[truromeo]

you liberals on this board are so cracked out, yo seriously wtf is wrong wit u ppl....comparing prisoner abuse as just as bad as suicide bombers wuttttttt.....comparing 9/11 to prisoner abuse, u ppl need to peace out of this country and move sumwhere else, we dont need ppl who bash us nonstop and blame everyhting on the president, get a life go hang out w/ yur boys in al qaida

[tasrit]

you liberals on this board are so cracked out, yo seriously wtf is wrong wit u ppl....comparing prisoner abuse as just as bad as suicide bombers wuttttttt.....comparing 9/11 to prisoner abuse, u ppl need to peace out of this country and move sumwhere else, we dont need ppl who bash us nonstop and blame everyhting on the president, get a life go hang out w/ yur boys in al qaida

Is that all you can say? please..grow up!