Who won the Presidential Debate

[truromeo]

no 200 billion in iraq is true.

no its not lol....Kerry adds every conceivable number including appropriations that havent been passed or even talked about yet, and if used wouldnt be used til next year, if there even used at all...

[bigpoppanils]

the $200 Billion is not true

its $120 Billion

[igloo]

no 200 billion in iraq is true.

not exactly--I believe it is $119 billion....at least from what I remember hearing last night

[bigpoppanils]

Gallup, ABC, and CBS polls declare kerry as the winner....

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aXmPtjOlEzvg&refer=top_world_news

[igloo]

First off i think Kerry did better than I thought, but he is a 20 yr senator and politician, and he sounds like one, Bush comes off more as a normal guy...so in result i think it was inevitable that Kerry would do better....BUT all Kerry did was attack, correct me if im wrong but this is all i heard from Kerry...first off his politically correct 10th positon on Iraq (we shouldnt have gone in, but now that were there we need to finish, but I would have done EVERYTHING diffferent) hindsight is 20/20 and i hope America sees thru that absolute ridiculous statement...Also did Kerry outline his vision for Iraq at all?? he briefly mentioned his 4 point plan, 3 of which bush is already doing, the 4th is that he will sumhow magically bring all these nations together in iraq, when the French already sed they wont join even if kerry is elected....Kerry suggested we give Saddam an 18th resolution wtffff yoo how many chances do we give him...also alot of things Kerry said has holes, 200 billion in iraq is false, has no real plan for iraq other than magical suggestions...laid out a bunch of programs which bush responded to how does kerry think hes gonna pay for this stuff.....also i TOTALLY agree on bush with his view on N. Korea, when he says we should not do bilateral discussions, i think kerry is absolutely idiotic in his approach to that matter.

Like I said, Bush missed a major opportunity for the KO punch.....as well as Kerry performed from a style standpoint (which was VERY important), he left himself open numerous times, and said some of the most ridiculous things......but because he did it with confidence and presence, and Bush had an off night, Kerry's comments got somewhat overshadowed....

He lied about the $200 billion, he lied about NYC subways being closed, he got the name wrong on the KGB facility, he got the Iran sanctions wrong, his stance on N Korea was absurd, his stance of bringing new allies into Iraq was absurd, his stance about sanctions and another resolution on Iraq was absurd, his diminishing of current allies was reckless, ...to name a few of the top of my head...

But Bush failed to fully capitalize, on those issues as well as others.....and lost. The surprise of the night was the great debator Kerry exposing himself numerous times......but Bush couldn't nail the knockout punch. Missed opportunity.

[truromeo]

yaa i agree with that...the whole time i felt myself being like, bush will u say this or say that...he was way too nice, he easily with more attacks and less defense couldve made kerry look like a fool...but he didnt, sooo we will have to see how undecided's, all being the tiny number of them think..

[siceone]

I agree with igloo and trueromeo Bush drove me insane last night. I wanted he to preach it man Kerry left himself open all nigth long and bush couldn't capitalaize. Kerry was very week on substance and I would go as far to say he was lying in some of his statements. I mean I was half expecting GW to go "nigga please stop lyin" because Kerry made some outrageous Statements, like the 200 billion, like the subways, like the Clinton- korea talks successful.

Im disapointed that there was really no focus on kerry's record, I definately think the questions were biased and only about Iraq and not enough on national security on the whole. I think Lerher did a partisan hack job.

[fresinha12]

I think the most interesting moment of the debate was when kerry said saddam hussein didnt attack us, bin laden did....bush responded by saying he knows bin laden attacked us, was just simply hilarious....I think bush went on a downhill from there...got to admit I did'nt see the whole debate! but I think kerry had grabed bush by his balls by then....as for the global test thingy, I think that was again some abstract thing, kerry was better off saying test of internaional law or something like that....but bush on the other hand was just plain stupid, talking about International Criminal Court (ICC) and why he is not participating in it so that our criminal officals wont be tried there....We the american people are all about the rule of law....the last thing you want to tell em is that I will protect rouge officals from the rule of law....

All in all, I would say both candidates are piece of shit! no real depth in both of em....one doesnt realise the shit we are in, the other makes magical plans. without even saying what those plans are....

BTW IRAQ is not a 4 point plan...its a debacle..it would take more points than a 4 points plan to get us out of there...

I thought Kerry did well in terms of coming off as articulate and a command of the issues, but he did leave himself open a couple of times (ie "the global test", diminishing the allies in Iraq), that Bush did seize on......and I am not sure he shed the perception of a flip-flopper on Iraq...

Bush was pretty much what I expected.....on message...although I did not think Bush was at his best......I think he missed some opportunities to score points,but overall I thought he did relatively well since for the most part the entire debate was an attack on Bush's Presidency (foreign policy)......it was a tough scap up there....

Overall, the debate was the same shit we have hearing for months, and brawling with each other every day on this board

It would be inetersting to see how the polls break, and what Americans will remember........if you are going to keep score, I would give Kerry the edge.....simply because if Kerry did not perform tonight, he would have been cooked...but he did, and because of just that, it was victory for Kerry, because it has kept him in teh game, and may even get a boost

[siceone]

I think the most interesting moment of the debate was when kerry said saddam hussein didnt attack us, bin laden did....bush responded by saying he knows bin laden attacked us, was just simply hilarious....I think bush went on a downhill from there...got to admit I did'nt see the whole debate! but I think kerry had grabed bush by his balls by then....as for the global test thingy, I think that was again some abstract thing, kerry was better off saying test of internaional law or something like that....but bush on the other hand was just plain stupid, talking about International Criminal Court (ICC) and why he is not participating in it so that our criminal officals wont be tried there....We the american people are all about the rule of law....the last thing you want to tell em is that I will protect rouge officals from the rule of law....

All in all, I would say both candidates are piece of shit! no real depth in both of em....one doesnt realise the shit we are in, the other makes magical plans. without even saying what those plans are....

BTW IRAQ is not a 4 point plan...its a debacle..it would take more points than a 4 points plan to get us out of there...

The international court is a Farce and we should not participate in it at all it would be used to railroad american interests. I think he was in articulate but bush was right about the ICC.

[missionary]

In summary: Bush's entire campaign is based on making Kerry out to be a flip-flopper. Fucking pathetic.

Kerry made his stance on Iraq very clear when he said that when someone makes a mistake (like Bush clearly made in Iraq) they OWN it and have to do their best to fix the problem created by that mistake. But now that the mistake has been made, there's only only one option... fix Iraq.

Anybody who thinks Kerry's stance on Iraq is still up in the air has clearly been brainwashed by Bush's broken record attacks on Kerry's mythical indecision.

[tres-b]

In summary: Bush's entire campaign is based on making Kerry out to be a flip-flopper. Fucking pathetic.

Kerry made his stance on Iraq very clear when he said that when someone makes a mistake (like Bush clearly made in Iraq) they OWN it and have to do their best to fix the problem created by that mistake. But now that the mistake has been made, there's only only one option... fix Iraq.

Anybody who thinks Kerry's stance on Iraq is still up in the air has clearly been brainwashed by Bush's broken record attacks on Kerry's mythical indecision.

Wrong.

However, it is a major issue and I think it is important that President Bush demonstrates the consistent, resolute approach that has brought our country to the point that 75% of Al Queda's leaders have been arrested and flip floppin around doesnt get tough jobs done.

[ou812]

yaa i agree with that...the whole time i felt myself being like, bush will u say this or say that...he was way too nice, he easily with more attacks and less defense couldve made kerry look like a fool...but he didnt, sooo we will have to see how undecided's, all being the tiny number of them think..

If someone isn't there to pull his strings like a puppet, Bush has no idea what to say or do. Whether it be in a debate or the oval office.

[mursa]

In summary: Bush's entire campaign is based on making Kerry out to be a flip-flopper. Fucking pathetic.

Kerry made his stance on Iraq very clear when he said that when someone makes a mistake (like Bush clearly made in Iraq) they OWN it and have to do their best to fix the problem created by that mistake. But now that the mistake has been made, there's only only one option... fix Iraq.

Anybody who thinks Kerry's stance on Iraq is still up in the air has clearly been brainwashed by Bush's broken record attacks on Kerry's mythical indecision.

When 2 out of 5 Americans STILL believe Saddam had connections with Bin Laden ..

..

..... this just goes to show why Bush has the support he has .

IGNORANCE IS BLISS & the Bush people sure know how to play it .

simple.

[igloo]

So much for some objective analysis of the debate before the moveon.org clones moved in

[obby]

we need to put wagers on what obbys response will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wager this:

No one kicked anyone's ass.......Bush haters will say Kerry kicked Bush's ass.....Kerry haters will say he can't open his mouth w/out contradicting something he said the day before. Kerry needed to clean house last night and he did not. His own campaign adviser called it a draw. Kerry contradicted himself quite a bit last night. The Bush haters don't want to hear that, but it's true. I personally thought the President did quite well, he sounded strong, decisive and self assured which is the attitude I think we need during a time of war. Bush could have closed the deal last night and did not. He did well, but not great. Regardless, Kerry needed a home run last night and probably hit a double.

In regards to Saddam, in 91' we had a multinational force of 200+ nations to push Saddam out of Kuwait. Kerry was 1 of a handful of Senators who voted against that war?????????? We know now that pushing Saddam out was the right thing to do so Kerry was wrong back then. So much for the claim about bringing in the world to share the burden. My question to Kerry would have been,,,NAME ONE! JUST ONE COUNTRY THAT WOULD SHARE THE BURDEN IN IRAQ! NUFF SAID. Kerry's Iraq policy is IDENTICAL to Bush's. He knows it and can only claim "he'll be better". Not much clarity there !!!! that's why the host (for lack of a better word) even asked Kerry, "can you be more specific in your plan for Iraq"?

In regards to North Korea, N. Korea is unique in that it has China, S. Korea and Japan to deal w/. It's in none of their best interests to allow N. Korea to do what it wants. We had a bilateral policy w/ N. Korea until they decided to break that agreement and return to their old ways of extortion using their newly gained nuclear technology which they acquired from the U.S. in the 90's w/ the promise they would not use that technology for weapons. That policy failed. Now we have Russia, UK, China and Japan dealing w/ N. Korea. Let's see what happens. Kerry's plan has already been tried (by Clinton) and has led to advancing N. Korea's nuke program.

If you actually listened to Kerry last night you would know that he continually contradicted himself. Some may have not been paying attention to the substance of the issues. Bush gets it, Kerry does not. As many analyst have already said, Kerry won style and Bush won substance, hence Joe Lockharts conclusion that it was a DRAW. Kerry needed a homerun to break even w/ Bush. He did not do that. This war on terror is extremely personal for Bush and I think that showed. Kerry is the better "professional politician", but that's not what I want in a prez. Apparently, neither does America.

[lucky13]

I think it is important that President Bush demonstrates the consistent, resolute approach that has brought our country to the point that 75% of Al Queda's leaders have been arrested

That statement about 75% of Al Qaeda's members being arrested is a bunch of BS! Their numbers are increasing at a higher rate than they are being arrested. Weak policies regarding imprisonment of these terrorists have allowed many of them to go free. Also, that statement Bush made about there being 100,000 trained Iraqi police was laughable.

[chris817]

the $200 Billion is not true

its $120 Billion

Thats how much has been spent so far, its anticipated to be close to 200 billion

[jtk4]

I understand we have not spent 200 billion so far, but it is not like we are leaving anytime soon. What kerry said is the war in iraq costs 200 billion, the info is based on the estimated cost of the war. How is that wrong? I guess he could of said the war has cost 120 billion and is probably going to cost 80 more, but i think it is the same thing.

Oh and when bush corrected Kerry about poland, i guess bush was wrong because poland was not involved in the original war they came after.

oh and about north korea, Bush charged that Kerry's proposal to have direct talks with North Korea would end the six-nation diplomacy that the administration has pursued over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions. Kerry has said he would continue the six-party talks as well, but Bush said direct talks with North Korea would drive away China, a key player in the negotiations.

But each of the other four countries in the talks have held direct talks with North Korea during the six-party process — and China has repeatedly asked the Bush administration to talk directly with North Korea. Moreover, the Bush administration has talked directly to North Korean diplomats on the sidelines of the six-party talks, and Powell met with his North Korean counterpart over the summer.

[mrmatas2277]

The international court is a Farce and we should not participate in it at all it would be used to railroad american interests. I think he was in articulate but bush was right about the ICC.

[jtk4]

Wager this:

In My question to Kerry would have been,,,NAME ONE! JUST ONE COUNTRY THAT WOULD SHARE THE BURDEN IN IRAQ! NUFF SAID.

In regards to North Korea, N. Korea is unique in that it has China, S. Korea and Japan to deal w/. It's in none of their best interests to allow N. Korea to do what it wants. We had a bilateral policy w/ N. Korea until they decided to break that agreement and return to their old ways of extortion using their newly gained nuclear technology which they acquired from the U.S. in the 90's w/ the promise they would not use that technology for weapons. That policy failed. Now we have Russia, UK, China and Japan dealing w/ N. Korea. Let's see what happens. Kerry's plan has already been tried (by Clinton) and has led to advancing N. Korea's nuke program.

Well kerrys plan involves letting countries share in the "spoils" of rebuilding iraq. Money talks, if these countries want the money they have to support and send troops or whatever to Iraq. I am pretty sure that will work, because countries want money.

[mursa]

Wager this:

No one kicked anyone's ass....... Kerry needed to clean house last night and he did not.

.]

lol..... I think you can make a rainy day seem sunny .

[mursa]

Wager this:

No one kicked anyone's ass....... Kerry needed to clean house last night and he did not.

.]

lol..... I think you can make a rainy day seem sunny .

[xxgrooveericxx]

Fox said Kerry won...i think Kerry handed Bush his ass on a plate...Bush repeated himself too many times...again, Kerry needs to connect with people...man needs charisma...ZERO personality for Kerry....but yea, Bush got schooled...

Matas, I was reffering to right after the debate. I was watching Fox News, and some reporter said "Bush won this debate, hands down!" They now realized he did not.

[igloo]

Im disapointed that there was really no focus on kerry's record, I definately think the questions were biased and only about Iraq and not enough on national security on the whole. I think Lerher did a partisan hack job.

The questions certainly framed the debate in a manner that kept Bush on the defensive, ....I thought Lerher should hve had at least ONE question with respects to Kerry's Senate record....

[sobeton]

lol..... I think you can make a rainy day seem sunny .

:laugh: