For those of you who thinks Israel can deal with Peace

[kramadas]

1) A lot of you people talk about the Oslo agreements and how Arafat walked away from it? If the US was under Canadian rule and you were fighting for independence, and Canda decided to give you Utah Texas, PA, and NY. However, they would retain control over all airspace, and ports, and would control your movement between the different parts of your "country"? Would yuo buy that? Or would you turn it down? Plus, there would still be Canadian communities living in your land, not under your authority (settlers).

Essentially that was what was offered to the Palestinian people - a glorified sort of occupation.

2) Even for the part 1) offered, tell me who shot Rabin, and why?

3) Even if the Palestinians wanted peace, do you REALLY think that Israel would allow it. Settlers are threatening civil war even for the Gaza pull-out, what do you think will happen if another palestinian statehood was discussed.

I would appreciate, if you do pose questions for me, that you answer these first.

[jtk4]

why doesn't the palestines try to get some of their land back from jordan too? Jordan did get 75% of what palestine was. I think but i am not an expert on this.

[kramadas]

why doesn't the palestines try to get some of their land back from jordan too? Jordan did get 75% of what palestine was. I think but i am not an expert on this.

I think the Palestinians who were on that land are now Jordanian citizens. Israel won't even do that.

[jtk4]

Would that make everything ok? I think not, if they are fighting for land they should fight jordan also.

[xpyrate]

i think the main difference is that jordan is not hostile towards the palestinians and do not bomb them ...plus share many cultural similarities since they are the same race, religon, etc

[kramadas]

i think the main difference is that jordan is not hostile towards the palestinians and do not bomb them ...plus share many cultural similarities since they are the same race, religon, etc

I agree with everthing you said except the hostility part. NOt too sure about that. At least they don't kill them and burn down their homes like Israel.

[kramadas]

Hmmm...interesting, none of pro-Israeli people out there chose to answer this.

[nootsy]

1) A lot of you people talk about the Oslo agreements and how Arafat walked away from it? If the US was under Canadian rule and you were fighting for independence, and Canda decided to give you Utah Texas, PA, and NY. However, they would retain control over all airspace, and ports, and would control your movement between the different parts of your "country"? Would yuo buy that? Or would you turn it down? Plus, there would still be Canadian communities living in your land, not under your authority (settlers).

Essentially that was what was offered to the Palestinian people - a glorified sort of occupation.

2) Even for the part 1) offered, tell me who shot Rabin, and why?

3) Even if the Palestinians wanted peace, do you REALLY think that Israel would allow it. Settlers are threatening civil war even for the Gaza pull-out, what do you think will happen if another palestinian statehood was discussed.

I would appreciate, if you do pose questions for me, that you answer these first.

The United States did not invade Canada. Isreal was attacked and during the course of the war they Kicked the crap out of 3 nations and took land to keep as protection from other attacks. You can not compare it to Canada marching in and taking states. I guess thats why you libs lost the election... People like Arafat live off the conflict if there is no more conflict then he is obsolete. The problem is the surrounding countries do nat want peace - they want Isreal gone. There are Arabs who live peacefully in Isreal - But there are no Isrealies living peacefully in Most Arab nations.

I am not 100% in agreement with Isreal in whats going on over there - Isreal can give a little more but No matter what the PLO will not accept it.

[sobeton]

The United States did not invade Canada. Isreal was attacked and during the course of the war they Kicked the crap out of 3 nations and took land to keep as protection from other attacks. You can not compare it to Canada marching in and taking states. I guess thats why you libs lost the election... People like Arafat live off the conflict if there is no more conflict then he is obsolete. The problem is the surrounding countries do nat want peace - they want Isreal gone. There are Arabs who live peacefully in Isreal - But there are no Isrealies living peacefully in Most Arab nations.

I am not 100% in agreement with Isreal in whats going on over there - Isreal can give a little more but No matter what the PLO will not accept it.

Israel has survived only through US Military and financial support. Israel is just as malicious and provoking as the PLO. I won’t even get into the activities of the Mossad. Israel uses the term terrorists when it's convenient; as a means to justify murder and intimidation. Israel wants peace on their terms, just as much as the PLO wants the same.

[jtk4]

when isreal won the war they should of kicked all the palestines out of the country, instead they let them stay thinking they could control them. Worked out well.

[kramadas]

The United States did not invade Canada. Isreal was attacked and during the course of the war they Kicked the crap out of 3 nations and took land to keep as protection from other attacks. You can not compare it to Canada marching in and taking states. I guess thats why you libs lost the election... People like Arafat live off the conflict if there is no more conflict then he is obsolete. The problem is the surrounding countries do nat want peace - they want Isreal gone. There are Arabs who live peacefully in Isreal - But there are no Isrealies living peacefully in Most Arab nations.

I am not 100% in agreement with Isreal in whats going on over there - Isreal can give a little more but No matter what the PLO will not accept it.

The canada issue was a comparison of to bring things in perspective. Obviously Canda did not attack the US.

Do you know how Israel was initially formed? Do you know who was living on that land before them? And please don't go back to who was living there in biblical times - that is irrelevant to the situation there now.

You still did not answer question 3).

[nootsy]

The canada issue was a comparison of to bring things in perspective. Obviously Canda did not attack the US.

Do you know how Israel was initially formed? Do you know who was living on that land before them? And please don't go back to who was living there in biblical times - that is irrelevant to the situation there now.

You still did not answer question 3).

I did not answer 3 because I do not know too much about it therefore I should not answer 3.

Biblical times? Why not? The Jews have been in Isreal for a thousand years and after what the anti semetic Europeans did to them I think they deserve it back.

American Indians whom also occupied your beloved country Canada - Maybe we should all pack up and leave. Or what about the Normans in England? Maybe they should leave - they took their country from the Saxons. Or Cuba - Brasil - (most of S America) - Most of Africa for that matter - Kick the Dutch out of S. Africa (they are already trying to do that) - Bosnia - You know what lets just restructure the whole world and move everyone back to where they started - Oh wait that would put the Jews in Isreal.

Listen Sarcasm aside - The Muslims that live in Isreal are at Peace with the Jews. The Isreali Gov should give back the land taken when they were attacked as a show of good faith (i agree with that) But the Muslims will still send children and women in to do the work of their men - Innocent people die and do you think people like Arafat or Osama or Saddam mourn the loss of the people doing the suicide bombings?? The Jewish community in this country need to be careful because All of Europe is becoming increasingly anti semetic and all (yes I said all) the U.N votes are against Isreal except the U.S. The Republican party in this country is there best friend and last hope. Millions of Jews were killed in WW2 and the jewish people need a country to call there own. I am not jewish but I would rather have the jewish people as our ally then monsters.

[jtk4]

isreal was given the land, jordan was also given land.

It realy does not matter who was living there before. There are a million different examples of land distribution after a war. This is not an isolated example.

turkey (ottoman empire) controlled the land they sided with germany, germany lost turkey lost the land.

[nootsy]

Israel has survived only through US Military and financial support. Israel is just as malicious and provoking as the PLO. I won’t even get into the activities of the Mossad. Israel uses the term terrorists when it's convenient; as a means to justify murder and intimidation. Israel wants peace on their terms, just as much as the PLO wants the same.

I do not agree with all the Isreali use of force - It can be excessive But when you have 10 year old children walking up to innocent people and blowing themselves up how can you tell the enemy? So what are you to do? Remember if these people could do that here they would. I would like to see your feelings on the matter if women and children were running through our streets blowing themselves up in order to kill friends and Family. There is so much hate there on both sides. Let the Isrealis build a wall. and give palestine back their territory

[nootsy]

isreal was given the land, jordan was also given land.

It realy does not matter who was living there before. There are a million different examples of land distribution after a war. This is not an isolated example.

turkey (ottoman empire) controlled the land they sided with germany, germany lost turkey lost the land.

I know this - I agree that it dosent matter. What really matters is what they do with it and Isreal is a very productive nation. and I hate to repeat myself but They live side by side with muslims in Isreal

[amyscottsdale]

1) A lot of you people talk about the Oslo agreements and how Arafat walked away from it? If the US was under Canadian rule and you were fighting for independence, and Canda decided to give you Utah Texas, PA, and NY. However, they would retain control over all airspace, and ports, and would control your movement between the different parts of your "country"? Would yuo buy that? Or would you turn it down? Plus, there would still be Canadian communities living in your land, not under your authority (settlers).

Essentially that was what was offered to the Palestinian people - a glorified sort of occupation.

2) Even for the part 1) offered, tell me who shot Rabin, and why?

3) Even if the Palestinians wanted peace, do you REALLY think that Israel would allow it. Settlers are threatening civil war even for the Gaza pull-out, what do you think will happen if another palestinian statehood was discussed.

I would appreciate, if you do pose questions for me, that you answer these first.

1)

Arafat turned down the best deal his people would ever get... statehood, complete control internally of the west bank and gaza strip, dismantling of most settlements, special status in East Jerusalem (but not ownership), massive US and European assistance, and peace... all because he also wanted to own ALL of Jerusalem, which was totally unrealistic.

It is quite telling that years later he tried to get that deal back, but it was a blink in time and that deal was no longer available.

So, I hear what you are saying, but that was the best deal there was ever going to be and he didn't take it.

2) That just tells you how good the deal was for the Palestinians... so good that right-wing Israelis were horrified.

3) Do you think the Palestinians current path has been working for them? They seem pretty worn out. They will never achieve much international support as long as there is violence and no real democracy.

The Palestinians have two great opportunities with the chance to transition to a new leader and the chance to have great control of the gaza strip and the west bank and if they are smart they won't blow it.

That said, as much as Arafat and Palestinian actions makes me sick, Israel needs to change their course of action...

1) Israel promised to stop new settlements, which has not happened.

2) Israel actually hurts their own security by building settlements deep in Palestinian land (and spends US tax dollars to do it). I am glad to see they are finally having the courage to stand up to the right wing in that country and dismantle some of them and return those settlers to Israel. I'm sure it is a big burdon on their military to protect those settlers and it is foolish. There are millions are hostle people surrounding 100 to 1000 people living in these settlements.

3) I think it is great that Israel is building a wall between themselves and the west bank. Where the wall is built terrorist actions are down greatly. What is not great is that Israel has pushed the wall deep onto Arab lands and not always followed the border, but instead extends deep into the west bank to surround these settlements that Israel PROMISED the United States they would eventually dismantle.

The more these two peoples live apart the better for the world. President Bush is the first US President to call for eventual Palestinian statehood. The Palestinian can make that happen by embracing democracy and peace.

The US also recognizes that Israel must defend itself. This can be enhanced by pulling settlers out of the west bank just like they are wisely doing in the gaza strip and removing the wall from Palestinian lands.

Unfortunately the peace process has been hijacked by the right wing of both sides.

[sobeton]

I do not agree with all the Isreali use of force - It can be excessive But when you have 10 year old children walking up to innocent people and blowing themselves up how can you tell the enemy? So what are you to do? Remember if these people could do that here they would. I would like to see your feelings on the matter if women and children were running through our streets blowing themselves up in order to kill friends and Family. There is so much hate there on both sides. Let the Isrealis build a wall. and give palestine back their territory

sorry I have a bit of an issue when, Israeli military storms into schools and kills children at point blank range. should I add killing children, because they are throwing rocks at Israeli tanks which are about to bulldoze their home. when one is not sure who the enemy is, that should be some type of justification to shoot them down? that defies logic! Yes, there is extreme hate on both sides, but Israel is far being an innocent party.

[jtk4]

when it comes to warring countries nobody is innocent. There is no innocence in killing period.

[kramadas]

1)

Unfortunately the peace process has been hijacked by the right wing of both sides.

To that I agree 100%! Militants on the one hand, and settlers (and Likud govt) on the other. I don't think there will ever be peace. Even if the Palestinian govt is able to get their act together and rein in the militants, 1) I don't believe Israeli incursions will stop while Sharon is in power, as those incursions are meant to inflame and antagonize the regular palestinian population as much as "fight militants", 2) the settlers have already threatened civil war because of the Gaza pull-out - now to see if the govt will actually go through with it (win for democracy) or falter against the settlers (win for religious extremism).

And of course that goes vice versa too.

[kramadas]

when it comes to warring countries nobody is innocent. There is no innocence in killing period.

Does that then apply to the Israeli citizens blown up in buses as well the Palestinian grandma out on the streets because her house has been bulldozed down?

There are ALWAYS innocents, maybe less so in democratic countries, but still there.

[tempkid]

1) A lot of you people talk about the Oslo agreements and how Arafat walked away from it? If the US was under Canadian rule and you were fighting for independence, and Canda decided to give you Utah Texas, PA, and NY. However, they would retain control over all airspace, and ports, and would control your movement between the different parts of your "country"? Would yuo buy that? Or would you turn it down? Plus, there would still be Canadian communities living in your land, not under your authority (settlers).

Essentially that was what was offered to the Palestinian people - a glorified sort of occupation.

2) Even for the part 1) offered, tell me who shot Rabin, and why?

3) Even if the Palestinians wanted peace, do you REALLY think that Israel would allow it. Settlers are threatening civil war even for the Gaza pull-out, what do you think will happen if another palestinian statehood was discussed.

I would appreciate, if you do pose questions for me, that you answer these first.

U hit it on the dot. U always here about this and how the Pals turned down the offer, but it really was a shitty deal and there the bad guys from walking away from it. before any fanatic pro israel person jumps into this " I think both sides are wrong" It's a two way street, ok, now you can tell me how Israel is the only victim

[jtk4]

they are not killing anyone so they are inocent. I am talking about the people who do the killing. I was reffering to the comment isreal is not innocent.

grandmas are alway innocent

[nootsy]

sorry I have a bit of an issue when, Israeli military storms into schools and kills children at point blank range. should I add killing children, because they are throwing rocks at Israeli tanks which are about to bulldoze their home. when one is not sure who the enemy is, that should be some type of justification to shoot them down? that defies logic! Yes, there is extreme hate on both sides, but Israel is far being an innocent party.

I too think Isreal has gone to an extreme - They need to settle down. BUT when things get quiet for a while its always the suicide bomber that starts off the action. They are both extreme with their methods - here is the difference. If Isreal calls a cease Fire it will be done - if Palestine calls a cease fire it will never be obeyd

[tempkid]

I too think Isreal has gone to an extreme - They need to settle down. BUT when things get quiet for a while its always the suicide bomber that starts off the action. They are both extreme with their methods - here is the difference. If Isreal calls a cease Fire it will be done - if Palestine calls a cease fire it will never be obeyd

What do u mean by quiet ?

Maybe it seems quiet to you over here, but just because u don't hear about houses being demolished and check points preventing people to live there lives, doesn't mean it's quit!!! U only hear about the conflict in our media, is when there is an attack on isreal !!!! Unfourntally, that is the only time u hear about starting the peace proccess or palistine statehood is when the sucide bombings are going on

[jtk4]

like i said they should of booted them out when the won the war.