In Defense of Silverbull

[Guest qwestor]

How many of you who have "been there" - the underground - walk into the current big clubs and are left hanging, waiting for that certain threshold to be broken, to be swept away beyond your control like cosmic dust in a solar wind. You stand there, headline DJ in the booth, you're ready to go, wanting to go, giving them every benefit of the doubt - and over and over step 1 2 3 maybe 4 5....then EMPTY...no promise no expectation fulfilled...onto the same level or to something else.

When this happens with the same DJ, who you know can work it, and yet consistently leaves it undone...you might say Bad Night. When it happens at different venues and different DJ's you begin to see a pattern.

You know where the track can go ...and you with it...you've been there. How does he leave it there? Why? What about reputation? What about that ecstatic moment for him when he takes the room with him on the journey? You need it so bad - once you've felt it -that transcendant sweep that seems to last to exhaustion. But tonight you look around and see the crowd is mostly going along with things TRYING to have a good night... that's what it's about , right? Yet you remember what a crowd thats hijacked looks ..and FEELS like ..and this ain't happening.

In the underground - dark, dirty, evil, sensual, sexy, tribal, HARD - the DJ teasers, tempts, torments, tortures your mind, body and soul to scream for release ...like great sex keeps bringing you closer and closer to climax and then makes you wait over and over ..and then bang!!!...he delivers the greatest orgasm you've ever had. You look around and some are in pure delirium, and others lock eyes with you in this shared organic intensity and you both know you're in an eternal moment that you will remember forever.

Many clubbers today have not had that underground experience and what they don't know they frankly don't miss. For them things are what they should be . These are the top names in the biz - how can it get any better? These are their good times memories. You know what's missing but words can't capture it. The sharing of the music alone is something , but the live in the club experience is what it takes. Little venues are fine with a few friends for good night out but nothing compares to a big club packed with thousands that takes off...as ONE !

JP working "Going thru it", Junior at Twilo after the straight crowd left and his people remained, DT alone and in a duel at arc,the tunnel, early industrial Exit... both SF's!

So what's going on? In a narrow sense its commercialization of the business. Its about not ruffling regulatory agencies, civic associations, public relations. Getting the "right" crowd - bottle drinkers, dress to impress, spenders at the bar, behave yourselves - not too overtly sexual or deviant, good proper public decorum, no funny business in dark corners and music - just background noise and a pretext to exhibit - not a moving experience.

All the very antithesis of what the underground holds precious. They are everything one wants to escape from - to the underground - the insanity of straight structured life. A night of divine madness....and its the music done underground... that makes for the madness...and that's all it was about.

Not an agenda to squeeze out every dollar from the bar.

And that friends is why the DJ's are told to TONE IT DOWN !!! leave the finish in the box if you want to play here. Keep the crowd under control, going to the bar, not too crazy threatening, don't let the word get out that we cater to that insanity. Keep it commercial, mild - that hits the demographic sweet spot.

Next time you're there --ask yourself -- couldn't this be racheted many levels higher? Is this all he can really pump it up? Watch the crowd and the energy...or lack there of... and ask why...look around for the answers.

On a macro level its counter-culture repression -rave act anyone? Underground is purely about the shared experience of transcendant music that tears the soul right from your body and connects you to the sensual organic community as one -you know its good and even better because you are all there in it together. Great music bonds people and transcendant music creates healthy humane values - not competitive egoistic divisiveness. Such cultures threaten the dominant model and must be eliminated by taking it over and emptying it of its real substance and meaning and leaving a hollow shiny disco ball in its place to deceive the newly arrived that nothings changed.

So what Silverbull was trying to communicate about the DJ and Pascha was that some artists will not compromise their art or betray themselves and their audience by delivering a "less than experience" to please the club owners commercial agenda. Is that so difficult to understand? Are the critics so jaded that they cannot see themselves resisting selling out for the right price? Stay where your are enjoy your faux club/music night out and the underground - always somewhere - will do just fine without you.

[thehype]

well its not about being underground anymore.....

its about having fun

[silverbull]

oh damn, watch out though cause all the people who were talking smack or adding fuel to my fire will somehow find something to use against me. Nice read.

[growinupjersey]

yeah jesus christ sir, you rewrote the who fucking bible right there. I dont think i really need to get into it that deep in order to understand and have a good time. Let me shorten it up for you. I like the music, i have a connection with the music. Theres a dj that i like thats playing at a club. I go to the club. I get my drink on, dance, look at chicks, and have a good time with friends. I just summed up what you wrote in 4 sentences.

and why is everyone always busting the bulls balls??

[nomembername]

How many of you who have "been there" - the underground - walk into the current big clubs and are left hanging, waiting for that certain threshold to be broken, to be swept away beyond your control like cosmic dust in a solar wind. You stand there, headline DJ in the booth, you're ready to go, wanting to go, giving them every benefit of the doubt - and over and over step 1 2 3 maybe 4 5....then EMPTY...no promise no expectation fulfilled...onto the same level or to something else.

When this happens with the same DJ, who you know can work it, and yet consistently leaves it undone...you might say Bad Night. When it happens at different venues and different DJ's you begin to see a pattern.

You know where the track can go ...and you with it...you've been there. How does he leave it there? Why? What about reputation? What about that ecstatic moment for him when he takes the room with him on the journey? You need it so bad - once you've felt it -that transcendant sweep that seems to last to exhaustion. But tonight you look around and see the crowd is mostly going along with things TRYING to have a good night... that's what it's about , right? Yet you remember what a crowd thats hijacked looks ..and FEELS like ..and this ain't happening.

In the underground - dark, dirty, evil, sensual, sexy, tribal, HARD - the DJ teasers, tempts, torments, tortures your mind, body and soul to scream for release ...like great sex keeps bringing you closer and closer to climax and then makes you wait over and over ..and then bang!!!...he delivers the greatest orgasm you've ever had. You look around and some are in pure delirium, and others lock eyes with you in this shared organic intensity and you both know you're in an eternal moment that you will remember forever.

Many clubbers today have not had that underground experience and what they don't know they frankly don't miss. For them things are what they should be . These are the top names in the biz - how can it get any better? These are their good times memories. You know what's missing but words can't capture it. The sharing of the music alone is something , but the live in the club experience is what it takes. Little venues are fine with a few friends for good night out but nothing compares to a big club packed with thousands that takes off...as ONE !

JP working "Going thru it", Junior at Twilo after the straight crowd left and his people remained, DT alone and in a duel at arc,the tunnel, early industrial Exit... both SF's!

So what's going on? In a narrow sense its commercialization of the business. Its about not ruffling regulatory agencies, civic associations, public relations. Getting the "right" crowd - bottle drinkers, dress to impress, spenders at the bar, behave yourselves - not too overtly sexual or deviant, good proper public decorum, no funny business in dark corners and music - just background noise and a pretext to exhibit - not a moving experience.

All the very antithesis of what the underground holds precious. They are everything one wants to escape from - to the underground - the insanity of straight structured life. A night of divine madness....and its the music done underground... that makes for the madness...and that's all it was about.

Not an agenda to squeeze out every dollar from the bar.

And that friends is why the DJ's are told to TONE IT DOWN !!! leave the finish in the box if you want to play here. Keep the crowd under control, going to the bar, not too crazy threatening, don't let the word get out that we cater to that insanity. Keep it commercial, mild - that hits the demographic sweet spot.

Next time you're there --ask yourself -- couldn't this be racheted many levels higher? Is this all he can really pump it up? Watch the crowd and the energy...or lack there of... and ask why...look around for the answers.

On a macro level its counter-culture repression -rave act anyone? Underground is purely about the shared experience of transcendant music that tears the soul right from your body and connects you to the sensual organic community as one -you know its good and even better because you are all there in it together. Great music bonds people and transcendant music creates healthy humane values - not competitive egoistic divisiveness. Such cultures threaten the dominant model and must be eliminated by taking it over and emptying it of its real substance and meaning and leaving a hollow shiny disco ball in its place to deceive the newly arrived that nothings changed.

So what Silverbull was trying to communicate about the DJ and Pascha was that some artists will not compromise their art or betray themselves and their audience by delivering a "less than experience" to please the club owners commercial agenda. Is that so difficult to understand? Are the critics so jaded that they cannot see themselves resisting selling out for the right price? Stay where your are enjoy your faux club/music night out and the underground - always somewhere - will do just fine without you.

you sir sound like you would be a blast to hang out with

[jimk29]

How many of you who have "been there" - the underground - walk into the current big clubs and are left hanging, waiting for that certain threshold to be broken, to be swept away beyond your control like cosmic dust in a solar wind. You stand there, headline DJ in the booth, you're ready to go, wanting to go, giving them every benefit of the doubt - and over and over step 1 2 3 maybe 4 5....then EMPTY...no promise no expectation fulfilled...onto the same level or to something else.

When this happens with the same DJ, who you know can work it, and yet consistently leaves it undone...you might say Bad Night. When it happens at different venues and different DJ's you begin to see a pattern.

You know where the track can go ...and you with it...you've been there. How does he leave it there? Why? What about reputation? What about that ecstatic moment for him when he takes the room with him on the journey? You need it so bad - once you've felt it -that transcendant sweep that seems to last to exhaustion. But tonight you look around and see the crowd is mostly going along with things TRYING to have a good night... that's what it's about , right? Yet you remember what a crowd thats hijacked looks ..and FEELS like ..and this ain't happening.

In the underground - dark, dirty, evil, sensual, sexy, tribal, HARD - the DJ teasers, tempts, torments, tortures your mind, body and soul to scream for release ...like great sex keeps bringing you closer and closer to climax and then makes you wait over and over ..and then bang!!!...he delivers the greatest orgasm you've ever had. You look around and some are in pure delirium, and others lock eyes with you in this shared organic intensity and you both know you're in an eternal moment that you will remember forever.

Many clubbers today have not had that underground experience and what they don't know they frankly don't miss. For them things are what they should be . These are the top names in the biz - how can it get any better? These are their good times memories. You know what's missing but words can't capture it. The sharing of the music alone is something , but the live in the club experience is what it takes. Little venues are fine with a few friends for good night out but nothing compares to a big club packed with thousands that takes off...as ONE !

JP working "Going thru it", Junior at Twilo after the straight crowd left and his people remained, DT alone and in a duel at arc,the tunnel, early industrial Exit... both SF's!

So what's going on? In a narrow sense its commercialization of the business. Its about not ruffling regulatory agencies, civic associations, public relations. Getting the "right" crowd - bottle drinkers, dress to impress, spenders at the bar, behave yourselves - not too overtly sexual or deviant, good proper public decorum, no funny business in dark corners and music - just background noise and a pretext to exhibit - not a moving experience.

All the very antithesis of what the underground holds precious. They are everything one wants to escape from - to the underground - the insanity of straight structured life. A night of divine madness....and its the music done underground... that makes for the madness...and that's all it was about.

Not an agenda to squeeze out every dollar from the bar.

And that friends is why the DJ's are told to TONE IT DOWN !!! leave the finish in the box if you want to play here. Keep the crowd under control, going to the bar, not too crazy threatening, don't let the word get out that we cater to that insanity. Keep it commercial, mild - that hits the demographic sweet spot.

Next time you're there --ask yourself -- couldn't this be racheted many levels higher? Is this all he can really pump it up? Watch the crowd and the energy...or lack there of... and ask why...look around for the answers.

On a macro level its counter-culture repression -rave act anyone? Underground is purely about the shared experience of transcendant music that tears the soul right from your body and connects you to the sensual organic community as one -you know its good and even better because you are all there in it together. Great music bonds people and transcendant music creates healthy humane values - not competitive egoistic divisiveness. Such cultures threaten the dominant model and must be eliminated by taking it over and emptying it of its real substance and meaning and leaving a hollow shiny disco ball in its place to deceive the newly arrived that nothings changed.

So what Silverbull was trying to communicate about the DJ and Pascha was that some artists will not compromise their art or betray themselves and their audience by delivering a "less than experience" to please the club owners commercial agenda. Is that so difficult to understand? Are the critics so jaded that they cannot see themselves resisting selling out for the right price? Stay where your are enjoy your faux club/music night out and the underground - always somewhere - will do just fine without you.

I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood... are you implying with this that the underground scene didn't have shady drug use? Or are you saying that it doesn't exist now? I read this quickly and I'm not in the mood to re-read it.

[thumperxl]

sorry but no club in my mind can be considered underground. I was there back in 91-93 for the storm parties, in abandon shipyards,factories, parking lots in the middle of queens, inside the brooklyn bridge,ect.. Thats is the true underground,not twilo(rip the best club ever)not limelight(2nd best club ever lol)not the soundfactory. But the parties where you paid 5 bucks to hear dj's like sven vath,wink,leven,carl cox,bones,crash,hell,dag,hawtin,lenny ext. That was the underground. Sure there are wannabe underground parties but when I think of underground I think of a party where anything goes. You burn herb, you drink booze, people had nitrous tanks for whippets, and every other drug you could ever want was there. Thats the underground, you try doin that shit in any club or at any other gathering and you goin to jail. The underground no longer exists except for basement parties in queens,brooklyn and my boy's fourth of july parties upstate in east bumble fuck out in da woods.

[fkornre]

oh damn, watch out though cause all the people who were talking smack or adding fuel to my fire will somehow find something to use against me. Nice read.

we dont have to find...you give it to us on a daily basis...

[Guest qwestor]

JIMK29 ..jimk ...jimk...jimk - just in case mercifully for you, but fortunately for others who may have missed it, I took the liberty of reproducing it here. Even tho your post speaks volumes all by its little self some comment is in order.

I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood... are you implying with this that the underground scene didn't have shady drug use? Or are you saying that it doesn't exist now? I read this quickly and I'm not in the mood to re-read it. - Jimk29

You don't read what you read, you don't understand what you read, you don't care that you don't understand because to bother is too much effort...however all that ignorance and initiative? doesn't prevent you from labeling the underground with the "shady DRUGS" smear that allows you the freedom to excuse yourself from actually thinking and walk away.

Yeah drugs were/are part of the scene - in fact since before recorded history they were part of the festivities - anytime there was a weed , a mushroom , a poppy seed growing around somewhere - so what else is new what's your point. Try the North Pole I don't think much grows there - you should feel safe.

Coffee, colas, caffeine, sugar, cigarettes, otc and prescription meds, and alcohol ???- did someone say alcohol ???- demon booze- $1500 a bottle, $15 a watered down glass, slurred speech, I'm not dancing I'm trying to stand up, sour breath, jack-ass lines, throw up on me you the floor, punch out your friend or that funny looking dude you think is staring at you, go 3 rounds before the night is out, fall down the stairs, cry in your beer about the girl that did you wrong, on the way home bump a pedestrian or 2, smash a car or 2 , add your name or someone who got in your way to the 25K a year alcohol related traffic fatalities, kill your liver, cloud your brain, swat the wife and kids, skip work or do a shit job, be a disgusting repulsive slob, you can't fuck that girl passed out next to you.......but alcohol --

Come right in ladies and gentlemen ...table ? bottle? bar-what's your pleasure...keep it flowing....but CLUB DRUGS ???? NO WAY ..NO SIR not for you...not in here.

If the media ever hyped and sensationalized all the post alcohol sequelae of a weekend in NYC, the way they broadcast a club drug related incident, phony meth for ecstacy study, there wouldn't be enof time or room on the news and prohibition would be back in full flower. You're right Jimk29 follow the leader and label shady anything your told to...and drink up!

Truth is those who have had the Underground experience know when the music is "THAT GOOD" you don't need the drugs to be taken away...but to each his own. I'll by you a drink next time we meet.

Thumperxl...er ..thanks I think...for the support ...Jimk29 was glad to hear your perspective...I'm sorry I missed that time - I would have been there - but lets be clear - the Underground is not about a place or time or just the drugs - it's about a frame of mind an attitude a truthful liberation from an artificial reality of everyday into the genuine connection with being alive a real affirmation of being truly alive free in the moment and being turned on to yourself and others at the deepest level. An appreciation of the senuous ecstatic joy of existence - a feeling of experiencing your spiritual and physical self elevated as one for the first time ...and then again. Some may have just felt it and others broke thru to understanding - miss it and still want to share it with others.

Growinupjersey - yeah its about fun - but there are different levels of fun-once you've been ther its more than fun - its enlightenment about human possibilities and potentials - you won't ever go back to being happy with less.

[argdiesel]

the underground was dead yearsssss ago.. now all you have is kids trying to look good when they go out and get fucked up.. there's really no more good dancers at these parties from what i've seen along the years.. shit is fucked up.. hopefully it wont take the path of hip hop.

[muzikchick]

that was good.

[silver05]

Doesnt anyone just go out to have fun anymore?

[silverbull]

Doesnt anyone just go out to have fun anymore?

all the time, i was out tues and thurs at cielo for BEN WATT, magical, this sat TEDD PATTERSON at cielo some more magic brewing.

[silver05]

Cool..arent you tired in the day from partying on week nights?

[silverbull]

Cool..arent you tired in the day from partying on week nights?

im tired all the time, but thats where not drinking alcohol since 2001 really helps.

[Felix_Leiter]

im tired all the time, but thats where not drinking alcohol since 2001 really helps.

a little tina goes a long way

[silverbull]

a little tina goes a long way

i dont do drugs either.

[silver05]

that makes sense...I need at least 2 days to recover from drinking..

[silver05]

i dont do drugs either.

Coffee?

[fkornre]

Cool..arent you tired in the day from partying on week nights?

didnt you ever see lord of the rings? frodo, sam and bull could go on for days without food, water and rest...

[Felix_Leiter]

didnt you ever see lord of the rings? frodo, sam and bull could go on for days without food, water and rest...

:laugh:

[hehateme]

house music sucks anyway, shit isnt \"underground\" at all

[jimk29]

JIMK29 ..jimk ...jimk...jimk - just in case mercifully for you, but fortunately for others who may have missed it, I took the liberty of reproducing it here. Even tho your post speaks volumes all by its little self some comment is in order.

I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood... are you implying with this that the underground scene didn't have shady drug use? Or are you saying that it doesn't exist now? I read this quickly and I'm not in the mood to re-read it. - Jimk29

You don't read what you read, you don't understand what you read, you don't care that you don't understand because to bother is too much effort...however all that ignorance and initiative? doesn't prevent you from labeling the underground with the "shady DRUGS" smear that allows you the freedom to excuse yourself from actually thinking and walk away.

Yeah drugs were/are part of the scene - in fact since before recorded history they were part of the festivities - anytime there was a weed , a mushroom , a poppy seed growing around somewhere - so what else is new what's your point. Try the North Pole I don't think much grows there - you should feel safe.

Coffee, colas, caffeine, sugar, cigarettes, otc and prescription meds, and alcohol ???- did someone say alcohol ???- demon booze- $1500 a bottle, $15 a watered down glass, slurred speech, I'm not dancing I'm trying to stand up, sour breath, jack-ass lines, throw up on me you the floor, punch out your friend or that funny looking dude you think is staring at you, go 3 rounds before the night is out, fall down the stairs, cry in your beer about the girl that did you wrong, on the way home bump a pedestrian or 2, smash a car or 2 , add your name or someone who got in your way to the 25K a year alcohol related traffic fatalities, kill your liver, cloud your brain, swat the wife and kids, skip work or do a shit job, be a disgusting repulsive slob, you can't fuck that girl passed out next to you.......but alcohol --

Come right in ladies and gentlemen ...table ? bottle? bar-what's your pleasure...keep it flowing....but CLUB DRUGS ???? NO WAY ..NO SIR not for you...not in here.

If the media ever hyped and sensationalized all the post alcohol sequelae of a weekend in NYC, the way they broadcast a club drug related incident, phony meth for ecstacy study, there wouldn't be enof time or room on the news and prohibition would be back in full flower. You're right Jimk29 follow the leader and label shady anything your told to...and drink up!

Truth is those who have had the Underground experience know when the music is "THAT GOOD" you don't need the drugs to be taken away...but to each his own. I'll by you a drink next time we meet.

Thumperxl...er ..thanks I think...for the support ...Jimk29 was glad to hear your perspective...I'm sorry I missed that time - I would have been there - but lets be clear - the Underground is not about a place or time or just the drugs - it's about a frame of mind an attitude a truthful liberation from an artificial reality of everyday into the genuine connection with being alive a real affirmation of being truly alive free in the moment and being turned on to yourself and others at the deepest level. An appreciation of the senuous ecstatic joy of existence - a feeling of experiencing your spiritual and physical self elevated as one for the first time ...and then again. Some may have just felt it and others broke thru to understanding - miss it and still want to share it with others.

Growinupjersey - yeah its about fun - but there are different levels of fun-once you've been ther its more than fun - its enlightenment about human possibilities and potentials - you won't ever go back to being happy with less.

WTF are you talking about? I read your post quickly because I was busy at work... I just wanted some clarification and you went on some retarded rant.

I've had the underground experience, thanks though for thinking you know so much... I've been going out for a long time. And believe me, everyone I knew who was doing it 12-13 years ago, we were all doing drugs. That's why I was asking...

you're quite the judgemental fuck you know that. You know nothing about me but you assume I'm some drunken typical male at a club... well that's not me.

[thehype]

you're quite the judgemental fuck you know that. You know nothing about me but you assume I'm some drunken typical male at a club... well that's not me.

noone can say you didn't try to keep it underground

[fastfast]

,,....