Isn't there too much kissing up to Europeans going on here??

[turntable]

I know they make great music and shit...but please this is NY. And don't forget where all this shit started from anyway. Here and Chicago. Kind of pathetic that some people feel they can only get their kicks by listening to Euro djs. BORING!!!

In another post B2B wrote that HOME might be looking into buying the TUNNEL...Please. HOME even in the same space would never compare to what TUNNEL was and can be. 1000x lamer if u asked me. Nothing beats a NY Party. Period.

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There must be a party going on around here!!!

[tranza]

Hmm.. You just opend up a new can o' worms for today..

What am I still doing awake?!!??

Good night..

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Hit My Damn Music...

[concept]

The New York night life has all but sucked for the past 8 years or so. I think things are changing now and it's thanks to people like Sasha and PVD having residencies at Twilo. Some of the best NY DJ's like Armand Van Heldon and Todd Terry can't even find good gigs here! But, this is changing.

There also hasn't been any music scene in NY (except for rap) in the past 10 years. But, Europe has brought us some of the most interesting music in the past decade. I'm sick of people always saying that club music originated here in the USA...who cares! What have we done since? Drum 'n bass, Breakbeat, Trance and even some of the best Garage music comes from Europe now.

In the early 90's we had some good stuff in NY like Disco 2000 and even Giant Step, but it all faded away. We were left with hardly anything (that was any good) for years. I searched and searched for good club nights throughout the 90's and just found the odd night here and there at places like Vinyl that were OK. But, to be honest I thought most of the NY club life SUCKED.

Again, I think this is changing now and it's thanks to the EUROPIANS!!!

[rudeboyyouth]

the music being imported from Europe is tearing up the New York dancefloors, but regardless of how good it is, it will never compare, or come close to the returning and evolved hard house that was brought to us at first, by NEW YORK. Whether it started here or not is not the question..we live here, therefore, it started here for us. Fuck Europe....their music is good, but our shit is also unrivaled in it's own right.

New York has, and always will keep it pumping.

And also, Sasha, Digweed, PVD, and other Twilo frequenters suck. I personally love hard house...and weak trance music just seems of no comparison...it is a different genre, yes...but all together, weak.

All the Hard, Evil house coming out of Europe, ESPECIALLY Germany....that is worthy of respect. Other genres....nah.

[This message has been edited by rudeboyyouth (edited 08-08-2000).]

[Keebler]

You obviously haven't heard a set by John Digweed. If you had I doubt you'd call it "weak trance." But, if you really have heard him play and still consider his music weak, then you have no clue what you're talking about.

New York hard house is stale. I'll admit I liked it back in 97 (the SF used to slam when it first opened up again) but it has not changed at all since then. The NY scene needs some new blood. Someone who is willing to step in and be different from the rest. I don't know if the NY promoters are willing to let that happen though because they are making plenty of money off this generic music that is coming out of most of the big clubs. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[blueangel]

Originally posted by rudeboyyouth:

Fuck Europe....their music is good, but our shit is also unrivaled in it's own right.

New York has, and always will keep it pumping.

[This message has been edited by rudeboyyouth (edited 08-08-2000).]

It is this naive egoness that the Europeans are laughing at when someone say American Clubbers. We're always so busy boasting about how this whole thing started here and and in Chicago. How we came up with Techno . . . how we started this . . . the club scene back when . . .

If we're so great then how come we're a step behind the Europeans? I'm not saying that they're better than us, but maybe if we shut up for a second and get back to the drawing board then we'd come up with some decent music.

rudeboyyouth, How can you put Sasha and Digweed and the words "weak trance music" in the same sentence?? You want deep dark house?? Go to Twilo on a S&D night!

BlueAngel

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I would rather have 15 minutes of wonderful, than a lifetime of nothing special.

[renaud from Par]

i'm gonna try to input my $0.02 on this debate

back in the old SF days, every body was looking towards NYC: an example could be the Ashley Beedle "where are you?" when the guy talk about the Sound Factory on W27th; or have a look at all the cheesy bands named "Sound Factory"

during the last 2 or 3 years, clubbing has emerged in Europe: here i'm talking about the club culture in the UK, the "French touch" (Daft Punk, Dimitri from Paris, Respect parties) or the Love Parade in Berlin

but i still think NYC rules: Vinyl with DT and B&S, Twilo welcomes Carl Cox and Deep Dish, Centro Fly on Thursdays...i cannot give my point of view on S&D or PVD caus i've never heard them play (let's say D is still regarding DT as an incredible DJ and person)

another fact: PVD, S&D owe their famous status to their residency in NYC and because when in the States, they are "the exotic DJs" as DT or AVH are in Europe

people are always looking for what they don't have at home: in Europe the big names are American DJs, in the States, you have to be European to be regarded as a big DJ

that's all for today :-)

[glynis]

i miss daft punk.

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Go Here For Your Complementary fuck in the face.
/>http://www.filmexperts.com/jay/f_face2/

[newsense]

HOME might be looking into buying the TUNNEL...Please. HOME even in the same space would never compare to what TUNNEL was and can be. 1000x lamer if u asked me. Nothing beats a NY Party. Period.

Its obvious you never been to Home before or for that matter, Europe, Ibiza or anywhere outside NY ... Because if you have partyed outside the states before, I'll bet you anything, you wouldn't have made those comments ...

NyC aint shit compared to whats out there ... open eyes, open your mind

[loudness]

Just had to say something to set things stright. Nothing began here in NY. Dance music began in europe. The first group to ever produce electronic music that can be compared to today was KRAFTWERK, a germna group, with Trans euro express. Then the americans bit, off the entire album, when Africa Bambotta made planet rock.

dance music was not excepted here in the US, but it was in europe, and that why we are so behind. With music of today here in NY, it can easily be comepared to Britney Spears or New Kids on The Block.

Without european music, the club scene in NY would be a nightmare to walk into.

[blueangel]

renaudfromParis, I do agree with what you said about wanting what we don't have. You're right, in Europe it seems that they look more toward the American DJ's besides.

However, if there is one thing that the Europeans have that New York doesn't have is this certain vibe. Europeans are the ideal party crowd. Extremely friendly, happy, full of love people. You get a crowd of drunk europeans and they just come together in a group hug compared to a crowd of drunk New Yorks, who if you even rub them the wrong way will probably kick your ass or you kick theirs . . . whatever. The parties in Europe are that much more.

And one last thing. America definately started this scene . . . creators . . . innovators . . . but we didn't carry it out. That's the difference. Techno remained as techno but they took it a few steps further.

BlueAngel

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I would rather have 15 minutes of wonderful, than a lifetime of nothing special.

[dzadza]

Turntable -

True this is NY, what difference does it make? I listen to the best music I can find, regardless of where I am and who made it.

True house started in Chicago, but Techno was first used by Kraftwerk in late 80's IN GERMANY. Same for trance, which developed from german techno.

You're saying nothing beats NYC party. Have you heard of things like Love Parade, InnerCity, or Mayday Reformation? Probably not. Europe lives on club music. Unfortunately US doesn't.

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Nobody is perfect but I'm pretty fxxxin' close. -)

[kramadas]

I have to say this too....S&D = weak trance???

WTF, which planet are you from??

Does deep & dark mean anything to you?

Just my "opinion"...

[apdiddy]

Originally posted by rudeboyyouth:

the music being imported from Europe is tearing up the New York dancefloors, but regardless of how good it is, it will never compare, or come close to the returning and evolved hard house that was brought to us at first, by NEW YORK. Whether it started here or not is not the question..we live here, therefore, it started here for us. Fuck Europe....their music is good, but our shit is also unrivaled in it's own right.

New York has, and always will keep it pumping.

And also, Sasha, Digweed, PVD, and other Twilo frequenters suck. I personally love hard house...and weak trance music just seems of no comparison...it is a different genre, yes...but all together, weak.

All the Hard, Evil house coming out of Europe, ESPECIALLY Germany....that is worthy of respect. Other genres....nah.

[This message has been edited by rudeboyyouth (edited 08-08-2000).]

bro have you ever even been to any of the parties where those djs played. the biggest problem with this board is that people talk shit about stuff they haven't even experienced, just jumpin on the bandwagon. everything you post on here is idiotic and totally ignorant. nyc electronic music, whether it be hard house or deep or trance or whatever cant even compare to the stuff being produced in europe. and try to listen to what these djs are droppin before you start saying trance this and blah blah blah. digweed barely ever played trance even when the trance epedimic was at its peak. stick to exit and sf and let the music fans listen to their music.

btw zombie nation is the bomb biatch!

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deez nuts

[blueangel]

Originally posted by dzadza:

True house started in Chicago, but Techno was first used by Kraftwerk in late 80's IN GERMANY. Same for trance, which developed from german techno.

Ummm . . . if I understand correctly . . . Techno started in Chicago, House started in Chicago/New York and Electronica started with Kraftwerk.

However, even though Kraftwerk created the sound (synthetic-computerized) it really too techno to start the who thing off.

Again, this is how I understood it.

BlueAngel

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I would rather have 15 minutes of wonderful, than a lifetime of nothing special.

[Nolimit]

Bottom line. Turntable needs to go out and see the world.... You'll see what all the fuss is about.

[dzadza]

Originally posted by blueangel:

Ummm . . . if I understand correctly . . . Techno started in Chicago, House started in Chicago/New York and Electronica started with Kraftwerk.

However, even though Kraftwerk created the sound (synthetic-computerized) it really too techno to start the who thing off.

Again, this is how I understood it.

BlueAngel

Just a couple more "techno who things"

The TERM "Techno" was first used by Kraftwerk. This word later meant different things to different people, the GENRE "Techno" developed to be different from what Kraftwerk was was playing. And their music better fits the electronica category.

I completely agree that it doesn't matter who started what and who developed what. Good music is good regardless of where it came from. I just try not to seal myself in a box and limit to say NYC house... or german techno... or exclusively club music for that.

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Nobody is perfect but I'm pretty fxxxin' close. -)

[loudness]

See at least some people here see the light.

For all those that know the deal, we will try to enlighten these people who are in the dark.

They say S & D = weak trance, but the say commercial DJ are the shit. Hummmm?

Techno started in Germany, not in the US. And can someone explain, "Hard House" to me.

From my understanding of house

house=Little Loui Vaga

house = tony Humpprey

house = david Morales

house = Frankie Nuckles

ask any Dj that has been doing this for more then 15 years would say the same.

Hard House is wanna be euro music, just filtered down to disgusting riffs and corney samples like "come on" and "yeah". Jsut another thing that is killing the scene here in NY. And even dj's like DT play all imports for all over the world. Imagine if he were to play "hard house"? The thought itself makes me stomach turn.

[mstill11]

Has anyone ever stopped to think that the scene sucks in NY not because the DJ's cant get gigs or the Euro DJs but because teh people suck. GO to Exit or SF on any Sat night. combined there are 10,000 jerkoffs from Staten or North Jersey who live for SHITTY TECHNO. They pull up in their eclipses blasting zombie nation and think Danny Cheetos is the best DJ in the world. People on this board seem to be inclined enough to understand how S&D and their likes are just better than the DJs at the big clubs in NYC. But Cheetos dosnt have a deal at Exit cause no one shows up!!!!!!!!!!

[randy0159]

NYorkers and perhaps americans in gerneal need to eat some humble pie, it does a body good. A sense of pride to keep your spirits up is one thing, but fooling yourself to say you are hte best is offbase.

Americans build shitty cars. I blame it on lazy union workers. Not all union workers are lazy, but enough are to cheapen things.

NY hard house is neither house nor hard. House has soul and snappy kick drums, increased tempo, synth stabs are not really hard. Rhythms are hard. They hold the aggresion. If the characteristic ny hard house were so good, then it would be accepted everywhere else in the world. Music is universal, it doesn't really have a home. The stuff about DJs is hlf and half. There is the mystique of having imported djs, but crappy tunes will never get you booked somewhere else. bla.

Is someone gonna tell me that the beaches around here are the shit? The roads? The air? Sure the grittiness is part of what makes this area, but that doesn't mean its better.

[back2basics]

Like this topic.

Turntable, I agree with you to a certain extent. Home could mess up the tunnel, I don't like there clubs in London and I here the one in Sydney isn't much better. But as for European DJ's over here it's supply and demand who are you to tell people what they should be listening to?

renaudfromParis, France has a been banging out some great funky tracks over the past 4 or 5 years, that who disco house sound (that was stolen by Armand Van (I am a good DJ honest) Heldon) has changed things quiet allot. But PvD and S&D were very famous even in NY well before Twilo.

Glynis, so do I but new albums due out soon and they both have been reeasing tracks individually.

Loudness, has a good point about kraftwerk and Bambata. But we can go back and back and still come up with no conclusion (what about kage for example).

BlueAngel, most people always go on about Ibiza and London and Paris etc. But the real parties are outside of the major cities. I have been all over looking for a good night out (as you know), some of the best nights in Europe are in smaller cities.

America created the music but the scene was created in Europe, your glow sticks have been used for 12 years in Europe, the club kid style is from the UK 10 years ago. Nobody can deny the major changes in musical style in the last 10 years have come from Europe (Filters, disco, speed garage, 2 step, D & B, gabba, industrial techno) while NY has stuck with deep house.

dzadza, there does seem to be more passion (on a whole) in Europe but things are changing here... the motor city Techno Fest got 1.5 million people out.

Basically this is just an argument about nationalism. Good music is good music where ever it is from. Night out in Europe are different to nights out in NY, so we have choice we have a varied world wide scene. There are differences but who is to say which is better? To some people the grass is always greener, to some people we like what we know.

One thing Europe has got is a Unity over the music. The Love parade is spreading all over Europe we are @ 1. In Europe French people don't knock UK track, Germans don't slate Italian track (and it's not because we are all European because if truth be told the UK is more American than European). But over here the national pass time seems to be to argue about who is best, biggest, first rather than celebrating a wonderful scene.

It's a shame. Remember disco, the US had a disco backlash. One of the most influential types of music was killed over here due to bickering. It never happened in Europe which gave us a head start on a scene that was obviously created from disco. Disco flourished because people were passionate about it, just as house did.

[blueangel]

B2B, very well said!! And you're absolutely right in saying that it is the people and the vibe that's different.

BlueAngel

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I would rather have 15 minutes of wonderful, than a lifetime of nothing special.

[newsense]

EVERYBODY IS JUST A FUCKING EXPERT ON MUSIC & CULTURE AROUND HERE ... ITS UNBELIEVABLE

THE TRUTH IS, HALF THE PEOPLE HERE DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE ...

HAVE ANY OF YOU ACUALLY BEEN TO EUROPE, BEFORE? BY SOUNDS OF SOME OF YOU I DOUBT YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE IT IS ....

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FEED YOUR HEAD

[back2basics]

Thanks Blue,

Have i completmented you on your Signatures recently.. because i dont know where you get them, but there all fantastic.

[apdiddy]

Originally posted by newsense:

EVERYBODY IS JUST A FUCKING EXPERT ON MUSIC & CULTURE AROUND HERE ... ITS UNBELIEVABLE

THE TRUTH IS, HALF THE PEOPLE HERE DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE ...

HAVE ANY OF YOU ACUALLY BEEN TO EUROPE, BEFORE? BY SOUNDS OF SOME OF YOU I DOUBT YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE IT IS ....

damn you just blew my mind up with that post. from now on everything you post is a fact, and i'll go by it regardless of my personal opinion. thanks for the enlightnment!

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deez nuts