jtk4 Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 when you watch sox games (that is of course if you find time), watch cano play when the sox are playing the yankees and watch roberts play when the sox are playing the orioles. when you finish watching them play, then make your decision on who is the better second basemanstill confused? i can break it down even more if requested"and tell me you stick with cano" what are you a caveman?sorry didn't have my retard to english dictionary handy. I have watched them both and would still take Cano and I am a sox fan.I see you didn't respond to anything else I said. IF you were picking a player right NOW, would you want the guy hitting .427 for the past month or the guy hitting .272? Also in regards to your "younger" does not matter arguement, if you were picking between the two, going on the past years numbers and predicting future performance, wouldn't you assume that the younger guy will get better with more experience? Roberts nubers progressed as he got older I bet Canos will also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 keep clinging to that raft Jon ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitz73 Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 Guess who was just named AL co-player of the week? (2 more rbi's today) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted August 6 Author Report Share Posted August 6 "and tell me you stick with cano" what are you a caveman?sorry didn't have my retard to english dictionary handy. I have watched them both and would still take Cano and I am a sox fan.I see you didn't respond to anything else I said. IF you were picking a player right NOW, would you want the guy hitting .427 for the past month or the guy hitting .272? Also in regards to your "younger" does not matter arguement, if you were picking between the two, going on the past years numbers and predicting future performance, wouldn't you assume that the younger guy will get better with more experience? Roberts nubers progressed as he got older I bet Canos will also.I get it....we're on a month by month basis. Coulda fooled me since the debate started prior to the season. I'll tell you what, I'll wait for a hot streak and state my case and provide last month's numbers to prove my case just like you do.The question started with who the best second baseman is in baseball.....you argue that cano is younger and has a brighter future diverting from the original question. You're a smart one pal. To make it better you keep your mouth shut until Cano has a good month then you claim your case again. Seems like your debate just goes in circles and you avoid the debate's original question at all costs to save faceAnd as for the younger argument...isnt 29 years of age typically your athletic prime for a male? Once again, you win that arguement Your approach is weak and your arguement is weak. Now you've resorted to calling people names out of frustration....typical jackass move and not surprising in your case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 I just want to make sure I have this straight. You brought up who made the all star team. And that is ok. I bring up who has been better in the past month and a half or so and that is not OK.The question was stated before the year started on who the second best second baseman was. These are their numbers from last year. Are you saying that roberts was better? Just because he stole some bases and had better range. .286 10 hrs 55 rbis 138 games .347 obp .410 slugging-roberts.342 15hrs 78 rbis in 110 games .365 OBP .525 slugging-canoAs of right now:.314 9 hrs 42 rbis-roberts (his average has dropped).309 11hrs 63 rbis-cano (has raised his average 40 points)Back to be younger, my point was players tend to get better as they gain more experience. When choosing a guy, for the next season, would you choose the guy who is 29 and is probably around his peak on what he is going to produce or the guy who has more upside for the coming year. That was it. I would not of called you anything but when you come across like a fuckin douche with your "do I need to break it down further for you" comment when your the one that wrote that unreadable comment. Don't take it out on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 ouch redsox nation feeling the yankee heat dissension within!!!!JTK... i have tried for 6 yrs logic does not work on jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 I'll wait until you guys stop playing the weak teams before I feel any heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 I'll wait until you guys stop playing the weak teams before I feel any heat. our problem is the al east were doing ok against all othersyour 6 game lead is cause of your play within the div as opposed to ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted August 7 Report Share Posted August 7 our problem is the al east were doing ok against all othersyour 6 game lead is cause of your play within the div as opposed to oursnot to mention we still have 13 against tampa.yes 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Another thing with Cano if he was on a regular team he would probably be hitting third which means his numbers would be even better because he wouldn't have andy freakin phillips behind him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomembername Posted August 14 Report Share Posted August 14 THIS IS TOO EASY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted August 14 Author Report Share Posted August 14 the tag along finally made his way to this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 when you watch sox games (that is of course if you find time), watch cano play when the sox are playing the yankees and watch roberts play when the sox are playing the orioles. when you finish watching them play, then make your decision on who is the better second basemanstill confused? i can break it down even more if requestedYeah so I watched roberts go 0-8 and cano go 3-10 with 2 homeruns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted September 6 Author Report Share Posted September 6 Yeah so I watched roberts go 0-8 and cano go 3-10 with 2 homeruns.yeah, during clay's no hitter of which nobody got a hit? yeahbtw, roberts has nearly 40 sb's on cano, almost the same batting average, a few less home runs, better OBP, a few less RBIs even though he's a leadoff guy and a hell of a lot more runsyeah, give it upyeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitz73 Posted September 7 Report Share Posted September 7 btw, roberts has nearly 40 sb's on cano, almost the same batting average, a few less home runs, better OBP, a few less RBIs even though he's a leadoff guy and a hell of a lot more runsyeah, give it upyeahA) Roberts is a leadoff hitter so he better steal more bases. The fact that Cano even has a better avg is inexcusable considering Roberts had him by .080 points at the all star break.C) Nice word play... Yeah, 6 fewer hr's might not seem like much, but when one guy has 16 and the other has 10, that's 40% more. That differential is only going to widen as Cano gets better...D) Again, nice word play... Since when is 30 more rbi's "a few more rbi's"?? Cano will have over 90 rbi's this year, with a small chance at 100 if he finishes strong. Roberts will be lucky if he sniffs 60...E) Again with the wordplay... Since when is 12 more runs (91-79) "A hell of a lot more"?? Given the fact that Roberts is a leadoff hitter whose primary job is to score runs, the gap should be much wider...The original question was who was the best 2nd baseman in the AL. Based to the current stats, are you really going to try to say that your team would win more games with Roberts than with Cano? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stymie Posted September 7 Report Share Posted September 7 pointless to argue with him"you should spin tribal" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted September 8 Author Report Share Posted September 8 A) Roberts is a leadoff hitter so he better steal more bases. The fact that Cano even has a better avg is inexcusable considering Roberts had him by .080 points at the all star break.C) Nice word play... Yeah, 6 fewer hr's might not seem like much, but when one guy has 16 and the other has 10, that's 40% more. That differential is only going to widen as Cano gets better...D) Again, nice word play... Since when is 30 more rbi's "a few more rbi's"?? Cano will have over 90 rbi's this year, with a small chance at 100 if he finishes strong. Roberts will be lucky if he sniffs 60...E) Again with the wordplay... Since when is 12 more runs (91-79) "A hell of a lot more"?? Given the fact that Roberts is a leadoff hitter whose primary job is to score runs, the gap should be much wider...The original question was who was the best 2nd baseman in the AL. Based to the current stats, are you really going to try to say that your team would win more games with Roberts than with Cano?AbsolutelyI'd take Roberts any day. Lets put it this way, switch the roles and have Cano leading off for the Orioles and Roberts batting 8th for Yankees. The steals wont differ, nor will the home runs or batting average. But do you think Roberts wont have just as many runs, if not more, batting in that offense? Also, do you really think their RBI totals wont be flip-flopped based on their slugging and batting averages?Offensively, i'd still take Roberts and defensively i'd give roberts the edge based on his range. I'll give Cano the fact that he hasnt made many mistakes this yearbesides, i was responding more to that other guy's post comparing the two over the course of a three game series and trying to argue that cano is better based on three games against boston pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted September 8 Author Report Share Posted September 8 pointless to argue with him"you should spin tribal"good one...i'll toast my chilled merlot to that cyber diss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitz73 Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 AbsolutelyI'd take Roberts any day. Lets put it this way, switch the roles and have Cano leading off for the Orioles and Roberts batting 8th for Yankees. The steals wont differ, nor will the home runs or batting average. But do you think Roberts wont have just as many runs, if not more, batting in that offense? Also, do you really think their RBI totals wont be flip-flopped based on their slugging and batting averages?Offensively, i'd still take Roberts and defensively i'd give roberts the edge based on his range. I'll give Cano the fact that he hasnt made many mistakes this yearbesides, i was responding more to that other guy's post comparing the two over the course of a three game series and trying to argue that cano is better based on three games against boston pitchingThat's not entirely true...If they switched roles, Roberts steals would go down and Cano's would go up. Roberts would go down, because as a number 8 hitter you don't lead off innings nearly as much and that's where a lot of Roberts SB's come from. Also, a good amount of time whenever Roberts got on base from the 8 spot he would find another (slower) runner on ahead of him thus preventing him from running. Roberts would still have more SB's because running isn't Cano's game, but that number would go way down.Cano is not a leadoff man. Never has been, never will be. So switching roles really doesn't make sense in this case. We're comparing them because they're both second basemen, but they're completely different in what they bring to the table as offensive players.The only reason Cano bats 8th is because he happens to be in a line up that's stacked. On most teams he would be a number 3 hitter so conceivably his numbers could be even better on another team. I don't think Roberts would have the same numbers as Cano on the Yankees because he is not nearly as good of a run producer as Cano. That's Cano's game, not Roberts...If a team had a glaring need for a leadoff type of hitter then maybe I could see your point. I'm still taking Cano because run producing 2nd baseman don't grow on trees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted September 9 Author Report Share Posted September 9 That's not entirely true...If they switched roles, Roberts steals would go down and Cano's would go up. Roberts would go down, because as a number 8 hitter you don't lead off innings nearly as much and that's where a lot of Roberts SB's come from. Also, a good amount of time whenever Roberts got on base from the 8 spot he would find another (slower) runner on ahead of him thus preventing him from running. Roberts would still have more SB's because running isn't Cano's game, but that number would go way down.Cano is not a leadoff man. Never has been, never will be. So switching roles really doesn't make sense in this case. We're comparing them because they're both second basemen, but they're completely different in what they bring to the table as offensive players.The only reason Cano bats 8th is because he happens to be in a line up that's stacked. On most teams he would be a number 3 hitter so conceivably his numbers could be even better on another team. I don't think Roberts would have the same numbers as Cano on the Yankees because he is not nearly as good of a run producer as Cano. That's Cano's game, not Roberts...If a team had a glaring need for a leadoff type of hitter then maybe I could see your point. I'm still taking Cano because run producing 2nd baseman don't grow on trees...I hear where you're coming from and you make a good point, but since we keep talking in circles comparing pure stats, flipping positions will give you another point of view. True Roberts' numbers would go down some, but there are still hitters that dont hit at the top of the lineup and have speed. Two that come to mind are Corey Patterson and Chone Figgins. I'm not gonna dig up stats but I know both were buried in the 8 spot last year and now hit 2nd. Besides the fact that their production went up, their SB totals were about the same from one year to the next. I'm not arguing whether or not Cano is a run producer (although I doubt he's a third hitter.....more like a 2nd or 5th right now), I know he's a run producer....but since we're debating who the BEST second baseman is in the american league, all around would you really sacrifice Roberts' versatility as well as run production for a run producer that will produce a few more home runs (yes, a few) and less range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted September 9 Author Report Share Posted September 9 side note: how hot has a-rod been? this is making me sick to my stomach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 AbsolutelyI'd take Roberts any day. Lets put it this way, switch the roles and have Cano leading off for the Orioles and Roberts batting 8th for Yankees. The steals wont differ, nor will the home runs or batting average. But do you think Roberts wont have just as many runs, if not more, batting in that offense? Also, do you really think their RBI totals wont be flip-flopped based on their slugging and batting averages?Offensively, i'd still take Roberts and defensively i'd give roberts the edge based on his range. I'll give Cano the fact that he hasnt made many mistakes this yearbesides, i was responding more to that other guy's post comparing the two over the course of a three game series and trying to argue that cano is better based on three games against boston pitchingCano would bat 3rd or 4th for baltimore. You told me to watch the two guys when the sox played them and I did. Cano faced the top three boston pitchers (beckett-dicek-schilling) while roberts faced (clay-tavarez-lester) and cano batted .300 while roberts batted .000. He did look good last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbomb Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 steve sax is the greatest 2nd baseman of all time....... case closed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted September 26 Report Share Posted September 26 All right 6 games left and unless Roberts goes on a complete tear Cano will end up with better numbers. What is the criteria now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitz73 Posted September 30 Report Share Posted September 30 Links to the numbers:Cano: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7497Roberts: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6741As previously stated, I'll go with Robbie...One could argue that Pedroia had very similar stats to Roberts (minus stolen bases)Pedroia: http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7631 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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