The Mitchell Report !

[bxbomb]

The issue is going to be who has evidence and what is hear-say....unfortunately there isn't going to be any evidence and probably never will be because its not like someone would have kept a glass bottle and syringe from 5 years ago. If they were implicated, it probably happened.

I'm glad that there is disciplinary action that will take place by the commissioner, but what I hope this does more then anything is starts the testing policies that are tougher on everybody like, say, what the NCAA or NFL does (random drug tests, etc) and i hope this debacle ends

YOur boy Brian ROberts admitted today that he was juicing and that Robbie Cano is definitely better than himself ,juice or no juice

BALTIMORE (AP) — Breaking his silence on the inclusion of his name in the Mitchell Report, Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts admitted that he used steroids once in 2003.

In an interview in Tuesday's editions of The (Baltimore) Sun, Roberts acknowledged that he used steroids "once" in 2003. However, he said he hadn't used steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs since.

In a statement he issued to The (Baltimore) Sun, Roberts said that after the single injection he immediately realized that it was not what he "stood for" or anything he wanted to continue doing. He said he's sorry he did it and said he regrets making what he says was a "terrible decision."

Roberts was named in the Mitchell Report because former Orioles teammate Larry Bigbie told investigators Roberts had told him he used steroids "once or twice" in 2003.

[JonStephen]

YOur boy Brian ROberts admitted today that he was juicing and that Robbie Cano is definitely better than himself ,juice or no juice

BALTIMORE (AP) — Breaking his silence on the inclusion of his name in the Mitchell Report, Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts admitted that he used steroids once in 2003.

In an interview in Tuesday's editions of The (Baltimore) Sun, Roberts acknowledged that he used steroids "once" in 2003. However, he said he hadn't used steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs since.

In a statement he issued to The (Baltimore) Sun, Roberts said that after the single injection he immediately realized that it was not what he "stood for" or anything he wanted to continue doing. He said he's sorry he did it and said he regrets making what he says was a "terrible decision."

Roberts was named in the Mitchell Report because former Orioles teammate Larry Bigbie told investigators Roberts had told him he used steroids "once or twice" in 2003.

Half your fucking team juiced hotshot......quit beating a dead horse about this Brian Roberts stuff trying to divert all attention away from Clemens, Petitte, Giambi, Sheffield....and the other players that included the grand total of 22 Yankees listed

Breakdown of Teams Listed Team Total

Yankees 22

Orioles 18

Angels 16

Mets 15

Dodgers 15

Rangers 15

and he's still better then Cano

[kfitz73]

Half your fucking team juiced hotshot......quit beating a dead horse about this Brian Roberts stuff trying to divert all attention away from Clemens, Petitte, Giambi, Sheffield....and the other players that included the grand total of 22 Yankees listed

Breakdown of Teams Listed Team Total

Yankees 22

Orioles 18

Angels 16

Mets 15

Dodgers 15

Rangers 15

and he's still better then Cano

Well when one of the guys who flipped worked for the Yankees, whose players do you think he's gonna talk about? Do you honestly believe that every clubhouse in baseball didn't have a guy exactly like that?

[bxbomb]

and once again the man in 100% total charge of this "investigation" is a lifelong POLITICIAN who is now boardidrector for the redsox

[JonStephen]

and once again the man in 100% total charge of this "investigation" is a lifelong POLITICIAN who is now boardidrector for the redsox

you're not seriously one of those people trying to make excuses for your team's players sticking needles in their asses by saying the guy's associated with the red sox are ya?

you sound like those people thinking that the rising gas prices is due to terrorism and the middle east

[bxbomb]

yes me and the rest of the country that are not redsox fans all have this "agenda" to go after the greatest small market , all homegrown talent no steroids in our house team known as the sawx

[tristan22]

I honestly think this Mitchell report isnt a full representation of the # of juicers in MLB. Far from it ! I think the number Jose Canseco says might be just about right (over 70%) And what I cant comprehend is how Jose implies that A-Rod is a cheat and A-Rod doesnt even sue him for libel or defamation of character. For chrissakes, even top doper Sammy Sosa didnt even appear in the report!! Anybody with a half a brain would have done so. But then again, there might be some truth to it. We all chastisized Barry Bonds for his steroid use to help him shatter baseball's all time records, but at the same token, we (media & fans) give the newly outed phonies the benefit of the doubt. Anybody still thinks that asterisks should be stuck in this generation player stats ? What about those guys who amassed records during the minority barred era....should they be tagged too ? This thing opens up a can of worms nobody wants to deal with. One columnist said it best: What the HOF should do is let the records stand BUT with a cliffnote at the beginning stating that the records were achieved during differtent eras with controversies and let the fan/viewer decide on who's great or not Just because Clemens was erroneously mentioned in the media in a different federal inquiry doesnt make him innocent, I believe he's been a doper for a long time. Lets forget this doping thing and focus back on the sport. Just my opinion.

[calebdead]

Half your fucking team juiced hotshot......quit beating a dead horse about this Brian Roberts stuff trying to divert all attention away from Clemens, Petitte, Giambi, Sheffield....and the other players that included the grand total of 22 Yankees listed

Breakdown of Teams Listed Team Total

Yankees 22

Orioles 18

Angels 16

Mets 15

Dodgers 15

Rangers 15

and he's still better then Cano

BOTH Radmonski and mac were employees of the Mets and Yankees. Mitchell could only get those two to flip. Of course there is going to be a disproportionate amount of NY players in the report. It's all fucking circumstantial anyway.

I cannot even begin to understand why someone who is very clearly going to be biased would be put in charge of this investigation. It just discredits everything he claims. Were really supposed to believe that the Red Sox were clean while the rest of the league was doping? How delusional can you be dude?

And your claim that the Yankees could not beat Boston even while they were cheating is just lollll. We've beaten you so many fucking times there were books, movies, documentaries made. You were embarrassed for the longest time. You beat us ONCE in 2004 by a fucking fluke. And last season was the FIRST time you won the division in how long?

Stop the bullshit. How can you not even admit when you are wrong about something Roberts cheated yet you're not even man enough to just step up and say you made a mistake.

It's cool. Fuck it. Merry Christmas.

[calebdead]

I honestly think this Mitchell report isnt a full representation of the # of juicers in MLB. Far from it ! I think the number Jose Canseco says might be just about right (over 70%) And what I cant comprehend is how Jose implies that A-Rod is a cheat and A-Rod doesnt even sue him for libel or defamation of character. For chrissakes, even top doper Sammy Sosa didnt even appear in the report!! Anybody with a half a brain would have done so. But then again, there might be some truth to it. We all chastisized Barry Bonds for his steroid use to help him shatter baseball's all time records, but at the same token, we (media & fans) give the newly outed phonies the benefit of the doubt. Anybody still thinks that asterisks should be stuck in this generation player stats ? What about those guys who amassed records during the minority barred era....should they be tagged too ? This thing opens up a can of worms nobody wants to deal with. One columnist said it best: What the HOF should do is let the records stand BUT with a cliffnote at the beginning stating that the records were achieved during differtent eras with controversies and let the fan/viewer decide on who's great or not Just because Clemens was erroneously mentioned in the media in a different federal inquiry doesnt make him innocent, I believe he's been a doper for a long time. Lets forget this doping thing and focus back on the sport. Just my opinion.

Of course he's been a doper for a long fucking time. In the report it states he was using in '97 or '99 I forget. But yeah he didn't use in Boston of course. No he was totally clean.

And Foulke didn't use either. Or even your captain Varitek. Boston is clean but the everyone else in the league is/was using.

[kfitz73]

Of course he's been a doper for a long fucking time. In the report it states he was using in '97 or '99 I forget. But yeah he didn't use in Boston of course. No he was totally clean.

And Foulke didn't use either. Or even your captain Varitek. Boston is clean but the everyone else in the league is/was using.

Not to mention a certain player who couldn't hack it (pun intended) in Minnesota, then magically becomes the best hitter in baseball...

[JonStephen]

Not to mention a certain player who couldn't hack it (pun intended) in Minnesota, then magically becomes the best hitter in baseball...

lets be serious now....he has never been implied with anything. He has always been a hitter and was never given the opportunity in Minnesota and only got the opportunity in Boston on a fluke. He's got natural size (in case you haven't noticed, he's not very muscular) and implying someone is juicing because they got the chance to finally play is retarded

Look more towards the players that were good all of a sudden until a couple of years ago when they started testing more.....like a Gagne, Foulke (yes I said Foulke), Glaus, etc. Papi is still slugging as good as anyone in the league

[JonStephen]

BOTH Radmonski and mac were employees of the Mets and Yankees. Mitchell could only get those two to flip. Of course there is going to be a disproportionate amount of NY players in the report. It's all fucking circumstantial anyway.

Agreed, but there were a lot more players named that weren't from New York

I cannot even begin to understand why someone who is very clearly going to be biased would be put in charge of this investigation. It just discredits everything he claims. Were really supposed to believe that the Red Sox were clean while the rest of the league was doping? How delusional can you be dude?

Lets get serious here....only a New York fan is going to think this way....and I mean only a New York fan. He's heading an investigation on the sport and if he is on the board of directors of the red sox, then he wants to see his team win AND profit. The best way to do that is put out the best image of the sport and that is done by cleaning it up first. You think he cares if a guy was on his team or not knowing there is going to be very little reprimand performed on these players? He recommended nothing be done for fuck's sake. Also, Clemens is a hero in Boston still.....

This is like saying Bud Selig is biased to the Brewers and only thinks in ways to profit his ball club

Come on.....you're better then that

And your claim that the Yankees could not beat Boston even while they were cheating is just lollll. We've beaten you so many fucking times there were books, movies, documentaries made. You were embarrassed for the longest time. You beat us ONCE in 2004 by a fucking fluke. And last season was the FIRST time you won the division in how long?

Stop the bullshit. How can you not even admit when you are wrong about something Roberts cheated yet you're not even man enough to just step up and say you made a mistake.

It's cool. Fuck it. Merry Christmas.

yeah, yeah, yeah...Yankees have a better history but recently who has owned who? 2004 was a fluke about as much as 2003 was a fluke....except the winning team went on to sweep the series in 2004 unlike 2003 where the winning team got beat by a bunch of kids

Last part i'm still trying to make out the point you are trying to prove...i think its something to the effect of come out and say you fucked up, like Roberts did....of which I agree.

I don't think much punishment should be implicated for what happened in the past since it is something that happened in the past (i think the embarassment and heckling will more then make up for it) but I'm glad the abundance of the problem was finally shown.

[JonStephen]

and considering how they played last year, i'd still take Roberts over Cano

[kfitz73]

lets be serious now....he has never been implied with anything. He has always been a hitter and was never given the opportunity in Minnesota and only got the opportunity in Boston on a fluke. He's got natural size (in case you haven't noticed, he's not very muscular) and implying someone is juicing because they got the chance to finally play is retarded

Look more towards the players that were good all of a sudden until a couple of years ago when they started testing more.....like a Gagne, Foulke (yes I said Foulke), Glaus, etc. Papi is still slugging as good as anyone in the league

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3748

Look at his stats the last 3 years in Minny... Each of those years he had at least 300ab's. Not the same he's had in Boston, but enough to project what he would do over a full season. In those last 3 years he never hit .300, never had an on base % over.400, barely had a slugging % over .500 once, and his ops averaged a .800. His time in Boston has seen him average a .300 batting average, a .400 on base %, a .600 slugging %, and an ops of over 1.000. That's an insane amount of an improvement and I just don't buy that Pesky Pole is the cause.... Yes, he's got natural size, but he had that same size in Minny. I don't think the homerdome was keeping his balls in the park either. It really doesn't have to do with strength as much as bat speed. I think it's safe to say at this point that ped's do increase bat speed. The drugs will always be one step ahead of the tests. They don't even have a test for HGH yet. Remember when Giambi was batting .180 for half a year then magically ended up with 35 homers? I'm sure he just got a better chemist, and there are plenty of others like him.

Anyway, we're getting past the point. The players put themselves in a position to be scrutinized. At this point every accomplishment will be looked at with suspicious eyes. The report didn't even name Sosa or McGuire. I don't think just because a player has never been named or implicated that we can just assume they're innocent. It sucks that everyone is now "guilty till proven innocent", but like I said the players put themselves in this position.

[lolahotass]

so what say you all about clemens?

[kfitz73]

so what say you all about clemens?

[tristan22]

Of course he's been a doper for a long fucking time. In the report it states he was using in '97 or '99 I forget. But yeah he didn't use in Boston of course. No he was totally clean.

And Foulke didn't use either. Or even your captain Varitek. Boston is clean but the everyone else in the league is/was using.

I dont remember being a redsox fan...maybe in my previous life. I'm a marlins fan, you know, the team that has a firesale every 5 years...yeah, that one.

[tristan22]

lol. i knew it was a matter of time

[tristan22]

so what say you all about clemens?

now that he has to testify at the congressional hearing, he's fucked.

[jtk4]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3748

Look at his stats the last 3 years in Minny... Each of those years he had at least 300ab's. Not the same he's had in Boston, but enough to project what he would do over a full season. In those last 3 years he never hit .300, never had an on base % over.400, barely had a slugging % over .500 once, and his ops averaged a .800. His time in Boston has seen him average a .300 batting average, a .400 on base %, a .600 slugging %, and an ops of over 1.000. That's an insane amount of an improvement and I just don't buy that Pesky Pole is the cause.... Yes, he's got natural size, but he had that same size in Minny. I don't think the homerdome was keeping his balls in the park either. It really doesn't have to do with strength as much as bat speed. I think it's safe to say at this point that ped's do increase bat speed. The drugs will always be one step ahead of the tests. They don't even have a test for HGH yet. Remember when Giambi was batting .180 for half a year then magically ended up with 35 homers? I'm sure he just got a better chemist, and there are plenty of others like him.

Anyway, we're getting past the point. The players put themselves in a position to be scrutinized. At this point every accomplishment will be looked at with suspicious eyes. The report didn't even name Sosa or McGuire. I don't think just because a player has never been named or implicated that we can just assume they're innocent. It sucks that everyone is now "guilty till proven innocent", but like I said the players put themselves in this position.

Your joking right? His homers increased every year.

I don't think the homerdome was keeping his balls in the park either

Really it took my 5 seconds to look it up but in 2002 his last year with the twins he hit 20 homeruns. 15 of those were on the road. 2001 18 homeruns 12 on the road.

I think it had more to do with a guy hitting his prime at a park that fits him with a HOF batter batting behind him.

[kfitz73]

Your joking right? His homers increased every year.

Really it took my 5 seconds to look it up but in 2002 his last year with the twins he hit 20 homeruns. 15 of those were on the road. 2001 18 homeruns 12 on the road.

I think it had more to do with a guy hitting his prime at a park that fits him with a HOF batter batting behind him.

I was half joking... My point was that these are the types of spikes in numbers people will look at and wonder... Before the steroid era, something like this would have been a testament to dedication and hard work. Now everyone is guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion...

You make good points with the home / road splits, but I think it takes more than that to turn a guy from a mediocre platoon player to a borderline hall of famer... Otherwise there would be a lot more guys like him...

[jtk4]

So a guy has to come out as a rookie and put up huge numbers or he takes roids?(side note mcguire hit 51 his rookie year) Ortiz got sporadic at bats with the twins and even that first year with the sox, once he got the at bats he got better.

The biggest thing was probaby playing at fenway and on a good team.

[kfitz73]

So a guy has to come out as a rookie and put up huge numbers or he takes roids?(side note mcguire hit 51 his rookie year) Ortiz got sporadic at bats with the twins and even that first year with the sox, once he got the at bats he got better.

The biggest thing was probaby playing at fenway and on a good team.

McGuire started out hot but he faded badly... He was injury prone and could barely keep his avg above .200... Ortiz got 400 at bats in 2 of his last 3 years with the Twins. Thats 2/3's of a full season. His numbers don't project anything close to what he's doing with the Sox. The don't even come close to his first year with the Sox when he only had 450 at bats. The jumps in avg, slugging %, & OPS are tremendous... The Twins weren't any powerhouse and they had to release him because they couldn't get anything for him. To go from not good enough to be on the Twins to playing hall of fame caliber baseball in one of the toughest places to play is quite an accomplishment...

Off the top of your head, can you think of any other player who made good on a similar type of situation?

[cookie6]

that is awesome!

[jtk4]

McGuire started out hot but he faded badly... He was injury prone and could barely keep his avg above .200... Ortiz got 400 at bats in 2 of his last 3 years with the Twins. Thats 2/3's of a full season. His numbers don't project anything close to what he's doing with the Sox. The don't even come close to his first year with the Sox when he only had 450 at bats. The jumps in avg, slugging %, & OPS are tremendous... The Twins weren't any powerhouse and they had to release him because they couldn't get anything for him. To go from not good enough to be on the Twins to playing hall of fame caliber baseball in one of the toughest places to play is quite an accomplishment...

Off the top of your head, can you think of any other player who made good on a similar type of situation?

When has another team misused a player and that player go somewhere else and do well? Is that the question? Cecil Fielder, played 4 years at toronto went to detroit and hit 51 hrs the first year.

Also let me get this another thing right, the last year with the twins in 412 ABs he hit .270 with 20 hrs playing in a park and a system (the twins want players to hit the other way and not pull) that did not play up to his strengths. He goes to boston where the system is take walks and pull the ball and hits 31 hrs and bats .288 in 468 abs. Ho is that not even close?