2 Years in a Row, Bush Buzzkills WMC

[V. Barbarino]

fuck all the bs

Answer me this

Will gay marriages be lawful in the next comming year in any state?

I'll list the 3 most powerful men on earth and their views

Busch - No shot!

Putin - Doesn't Matter

The Pope - No shot..

you guys are batting 0 for 3

ps, kerry and edwards just today, said no to gay marriages..

Normal avg american people 5

Gays and people who are "PC" 0

4th quarter is comming up, hope you got a gay john elway on your team, beacuse you will need a miracle to win..

If you want the same rights, fine i can understand that, but show me 2 years where you don't ruin the great city of nyc with their bs, and still no one can tell me why some gays act like chicks... I don't get it. Who you fuck, doesn't determine how you act. Grow up and stop watching bravo, even south park made fun of the gays with the "metro sexuals"

[LESjunkie]

fuck all the bs

Answer me this

Will gay marriages be lawful in the next comming year in any state?

I'll list the 3 most powerful men on earth and their views

Busch - No shot!

Putin - Doesn't Matter

The Pope - No shot..

you guys are batting 0 for 3

ps, kerry and edwards just today, said no to gay marriages..

Normal avg american people 5

Gays and people who are "PC" 0

4th quarter is comming up, hope you got a gay john elway on your team, beacuse you will need a miracle to win..

If you want the same rights, fine i can understand that, but show me 2 years where you don't ruin the great city of nyc with their bs, and still no one can tell me why some gays act like chicks... I don't get it. Who you fuck, doesn't determine how you act. Grow up and stop watching bravo, even south park made fun of the gays with the "metro sexuals"

The point is NOT to make marriage legal next year, it is to avoid an amendment that would ban it. The marriage will be legal eventually, but no one is demanding it immediately....but to amend the constitution...that is what needs to be stopped. it is ridiculous.

gay guys acting like chicks...this is the reason that the millions of gay people who DO NOT act like chicks do not come out of the closet. they are ashamed, and concur with you that it is weird, out of masculine character, and chew on this for a bit saleen....it is what causes normal acting, well intentioned masculine gay men to be fucked up for so many years....it is what causes them to feel like shit day in and day out...to feel a lack of identity, a lack of self esteem, and it royally screws up their lives and their mental state. Trust me.....trust me trust me TRUST me please...there are millions upon millions of people around Y-O-U that hate the flamboyance, the queer eye for the straight guy show, the boys that wear leather and stare at you as you walk by....the "gay stare"....tons of other gays are disgusted by it...

be a person....be a human being,...consider what i say here....you are generalizing tooo much....you are unknowingly hurting people and driving them further to deny who they are because you generalize their identity as singular when there are so many offshoots and facets. There are levels and tiers---you only understand the most dramatic because that's all you really see....in the media and in the streets and in the clubs. Try to conceptualize that there is a whole lot more...and the more you try to destroy and defame, you are hurting people with your words and fucking up their heads saleen....you are saying these things in a highly public forum....I couldnt really look myself in the mirror if I knew I was responsible for something like that...

think about it.

[V. Barbarino]

i don't hate gays, actually i could care less if you are gay, but as a catholic i can't see marriage between gays as being right..

I have zero issue with you guys, yea some fuckup, and make all look bad, but you can't blame the avg joe when they see the shit on tv. You can't blame the media, 5000 gays doing that shit on city streets in front of kids is a news story.

I have no problem giving you guys the same rights as married people, but that leads into other problems, and breaking the law in cali is not the way to get your point across. That did more harm that good. If you fought it in the courts then Bush would have never brought up the constituion issue.

But Mayors can't break the law at will. Turning your back on 600 years of tradition is arogance.

[Guest endymion]

Uhm, Saleen, 600 years of tradition? Who's tradition? Roman Catholic white males from New Jersey? You get to decide? Why exactly? My religion says that two guys taking care of each other is a good thing. Your religion says that that's evil, but forcing a little straight boy to suck your dick against his will is perfectly acceptable. We're supposed to let you decide what's right?

People all over the world (including in the US) have been participating in group marriages for thousands of years. Multiple wives in some cultures, multiple husbands in some cultures, multiple wives and husbands in some cultures. All sanctioned by local government. These are marriage traditions that stretch back beyond the beginning of recorded history. Why do you get to decide that those traditions are inferior and yours is superior?

[Guest pod]

Again, the hypocrisy of Middle White America.

Homosexuality is condemned, yet it's alright for priests to fondle the altar boy.

Drug use is condemned, yet Patrick and his buddies from the accounting firm go off on golf trips to Vegas, and snort coke of a stripper's rack at night. And when Patrick gets home, he beats his son, Patrick Junior, for smoking weed outside.

I could go on for awhile...

[LESjunkie]

Uhm, Saleen, 600 years of tradition?  Who's tradition?  Roman Catholic white males from New Jersey?  You get to decide?  Why exactly?  My religion says that two guys taking care of each other is a good thing.  Your religion says that that's evil, but forcing a little straight boy to suck your dick  against his will is perfectly acceptable.  We're supposed to let you decide what's right?

People all over the world (including in the US) have been participating in group marriages for thousands of years.  Multiple wives in some cultures, multiple husbands in some cultures, multiple wives and husbands in some cultures.  All sanctioned by local government.  These are marriage traditions that stretch back beyond the beginning of recorded history.  Why do you get to decide that those traditions are inferior and yours is superior?

might be the best historical backing to an argument I've seen here yet.  

[V. Barbarino]

might be the best historical backing to an argument I've seen here yet.  

so since other cultures do it, then it's fine?

what kind of wack ass shit is that?

in Amsterdam, they allow you do to herion, maybe we should too.... lol....

[Guest endymion]

You lost track of your own thought process, Saleen. You don't even seem to really listen to yourself, much less others. You said that two men marrying should be illegal in the United States because 'we' have a tradition that a marriage is between a man and a woman.

Who is 'we'? There are lots of American citizens who come from places where marriages that are not between one man and one woman are normal. Mormons. Saudis. Lots and lots of American citizens right here in the US, who consider themselves a part of our US culture, have traditions that say that a marriage is not necessarily between one man and one woman.

When you say 'we', you mean you. You want the right to push your religion on me and I resent that. Even more so now that the altar boy thing is out.

[Guest pod]

That's what irks me, that "right" in this case is being defined by a religion, which, last time I checked, is not a state religion by virtue of the Bill of Rights.

Bush just wants to wipe his ass with that document, it seems. Being from the Bible Belt himself, he no doubt looks upon gays, lesbians, bisexuals, polygamists, and so forth as deviants who must be dehumanized.

I have no issues with the theory of most religions and belief systems. What really irks me are the zealots and fundamentalists, who seems to think that their beliefs are the best for everyone.

I'm an agnostic by trade, actually, I really don't care if there is a god or not. But I never try to push that belief on anyone else.

[ryan2772]

Again, the hypocrisy of Middle White America.

Homosexuality is condemned, yet it's alright for priests to fondle the altar boy.

Drug use is condemned, yet Patrick and his buddies from the accounting firm go off on golf trips to Vegas, and snort coke of a stripper's rack at night. And when Patrick gets home, he beats his son, Patrick Junior, for smoking weed outside.

I could go on for awhile...

Sounds to me like your middle name might be Patrick Jr.....

[LESjunkie]

Sounds to me like your middle name might be Patrick Jr.....

hahaha! that was funny, ryan

dan, i for one didnt interpret you as Patrick Jr. but that was a funny thought for a moment.

[Guest pod]

Nah, my parents did and probably still do drugs. It wasn't a big secret.

The belief was that anyone who would run for office is naturally evil and corrupt, and should be treated as such.

I grew up in a refreshingly corrupt household. Self-rule and determination were the watchwords.

We'd sooner kill a politician than vote him into office. Career politicans are criminals. I'd sooner kick George Bush in the nuts than shake his hand. His wife's a trailer trash bitch and his daughters are the proverbial whores of Babylon. I'm sure they've been had six ways from Tuesday by the college football team. Hell, if I can roger the ambassador of Peru's daughter, I'm sure some stud football player can pull one over on GW's little girl.

Was I Patrick Junior? Hell no! I was Dan the First. I probably told Patrick Junior to stop smoking weed and take up doing coke so my relatives could make a handsome profit.

[Guest Diabolique]

pod,  catholics can repent their sins, and be forgiven, and god gave man free will, however he also gave us jesus who provide the template on how to live our lives and to fear god, thus making us a better society. Sure I do bad shit, but underneath I'm a good moral person who has faith in god and his teachings. Every time I see someone do something wrong, I say to myself "god will deal with him"....

ps, stuidies show when people get older they believe in god.. they know their time is comming, and they are finally getting it..

please, people believe in god, because they are mortified they'll burn eternally in hell if they don't. All ages I've seen act this way, and it worsen with age.. God rules by fear and you know it.

Being gay has been scientifically proven, so if "god" created us, he created gays, which in turn would be a hypocritial god to create and condemn the things he creates.

I have an aunt who is gay and has been in a loving relationship for over 20 years. Thier love is more genuine than half of the marriages that DON'T end up in divorce in this country. "til death do us part"... ha, see the word of god means nothing even to straight couples, or they wouldn't divorce so much.

grrrrrrr

[Guest pod]

There is no scientific proof of creationism anyway. So the belief in a god, is logically mysticism. Again, if that's how you feel, so be it.

Again, as for repenting sins, I hate to brag, but I don't have to! ;D I come home, and if I've made free with another man's wife, and ran over a bum with my 760iL, that's my own damn problem.

Will I burn in hell? If there is one, I'm sure I've got VIP +5 on the list, and Satan already is emailing me a contract to be the exclusive photographer. 1D MK II is supposed to have impressive specs under fire, anyway.

But enough of that crap.

Why can't people just mind their own business? It's strange, people will proclaim the sins of others from the rooftops, but you have to strain to hear them confess their own.

[Guest endymion]

Religion is theoretically supposed to be about ethics and morality. I find it very revealing that Moses and Jesus were extremely clear about "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" while being pretty vague about "THOU SHALT NOT LOVE THY SAME-SEX FRIENDS IN THAT TINGLY WAY".

I propose that the scriptures are very clear about the immorality of killing because it's a very important point. I propose that the reason why the scriptures treat homosexuality as an afterthought is because it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. I believe that the overall message of the gospels and the scriptures in general is that Jesus was a philosopher who ran around telling people that it's uncool to kill people and that it is cool to love people.

I also believe that one of the greatest tragedies in human history is that the message that Jesus spent his life preaching and that he died for has been lost. The people who remember Jesus the most loudly are the people who focus on his execution. I do not believe that Jesus really wanted to be remembered for his execution. I believe that Jesus wanted to be remembered for his message. I believe that he would never have wanted the story of his execution to be mythologized and contorted to the point where 2000 years later, it is being used as part of the rationalization for preaching hate and intolerance. That contortion of the message of Jesus is one of the greatest tragedies in history. The warping of Mohammed's message has caused a lot of problems too. Overall the problem is religion, not homosexuality.

God created Adam. God created Steve. God created Adam's capacity to love Steve. What fucked-up, old-testament God would create Adam with the capacity for finding comfort in love, and then turn around and damn him to hell for experiencing one of life's greatest joys? I would refuse to worship that God even if I did think that he existed.

My god has two commandments:

1) do not kill anybody

2) love and respect everybody who you possibly can

As far as I'm concerned the Bible supports that outlook, and haters can just kiss my shiny metal ass.

[Guest bcnjunkie]

I've yet to meet an outspoken catholic that has humility (one of the things that Jesus preached the most).  Catholic church is deceptive, arrogant and has a bad track record.  Rather than teach faith they teach intimidation.  They were associated with the fascist movement in Spain, with the guerillas in latin america, with corrupt royalty in Europe, mafia, etc.  the list goes on and on.  They are a financial institution that receives countless returns tax free. If you do not pay taxes, like I do in my country, don't lobby in my goverment to try and tell me or others what's moral, or how to live my or anybody elses life.  Give spiritual guidance but don't impose it !

[tgibson]

This has been a very interesting and enlightening thread.

Taking a step back for a second, the one thing that I always find pretty interesting around election time is how these "polarizing" issues come up that get people talking and debating - but then when it comes down to the day-to-day goings-on of the country, really have such a lesser importance (ZERO offence intended to anyone on either side of this conversation). I guess I just think that there's a lot of energy that goes into these debates that could be focused elsewhere, with the three main issues I see being:

(1) campaign finance reform (if someone can explain this one to me, I'd appreciate it) - corporations are allowed to donate millions upon millions to fund political campaigns and somehow we're supposed to assume that there is no reciprocity here (read: bribery)?

I would think that maybe it's ok if the dollars were helping candidates get more people to vote - which, despite MILLIONS being spent on ad campaigns...they don't.

PLUS...all the big companies donate to BOTH parties! It's almost as if they're saying...who cares who wins...just remember who gave you that $50mm once you're in power...

How this isn't fixed, I do not know...

(2) Education. It's pitiful. Surely it wouldn't cost THAT much to fix when you consider how much is spent elsewhere on other things. I don't want to say "how many textbooks could you buy with one fighter jet", but really...the educational system here is in shambles...the whoel world knows it - how embarassing.

(3) Healthcare. Everyone should have access to it. At all times. Period. It sickens me to see people starving and ill in the street. Or old people who are lonely with no one to care for them. I used to be much more "right-leaning" on this one, saying that if people truly believed in this that they would simply increase their charitable donations...BUT now I just believe that yes, we're greedy, and while taxes suck and are a huge drain on the economy...there are instances where we need gov't to collect them, and this is one of them.

As for the church, it's a terrible thing what has happened with all the priests and little boys and stuff. TERRIBLE. That said, religion and what it stands for at it's core is good. Most importantly, it encourages love, something I think we can all agree is good...it stinks that a few creeps from Massachusetts can ruin it for everyone. Get rid of the creeps. Find them, and weed them out.

Sorry for rambling here. Long weekend. Can't wait for Miami.