Your View... Is drug testing in clubs good or bad??

[kimberlyco]

Places like Dance Safe and other companies try their hardest to make it known that what they are doing is a good thing... they are possibly saving lives... what is your view on the subject... should they be allowed to go from party to party, club to club, testing these pills for kids just so the kids can turn around and take drugs knowing that at least what they are getting is MDMA??

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Life is only complicated because you make it so. Remember what it was like to live carefree - and live that way again!

[bouncyboy]

first of all that is stupid. They would never allow them to test the pills in clubs, nor would anyone be stupid enough to let someone test it. no one wants to admit they have them, nor do the clubs allow people to bring pills in. So therefor it isn't a good or bad idea, it's an impossible idea, unless a miracle occurs and they legalize X, yeah right.....

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[chaosbound]

Your right BB, it is kind of a mute point. Until unless they legalize it, it will never happen. But if your asking for personal opinions Kim then…yes I think they should have testing in clubs. At least if you're a user you'll know what your taking and the clubs should have less problems with ppl hitting the floor and needing to be dragged to the hospital (it really is a lot of paper work for them ). ppl are going to take it either way. And what little promotion it might do for others to use it by having the testing there I think the safety of the kids using far out weighs that risk.

Peace and stuff, Chaos.

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So it moved on, and i moved on behind.

[der]

Dance Safe makes it much easier for people to know if they're putting actual MDA or MDMA in their bodies. This is a good thing because not everyone is doing business w/ trustworthy individuals with the actual desired substance.

Now, no way in hell is this city or any club gonna let this happen because possession of MDA or MDMA is illegal.

So, to answer the question: it's good, but it's wrong, legally.

[This message has been edited by der (edited 06-28-2001).]

[back2basics-]

Well they test in the UK, Holland, Prague, Germany and although drugs are semi-legal in Holland they arn't in the rest of Europe.

This argument is a difficult one. With PMA and the other 'bad batches' testing CAN save lives. It can also let yuo weed out the MDA, MDEA, Speed type pills and give you a choice to take them. If i could, i wouldn't take anything but MDMA, because i know that the other 2 E derivatives are more toxic and i just don't enjoy them as much. But that brings us on to one of the arguments against. If the genral public think that testing can also be used to test the quality of drugs then they won't like it. Which is where they are in England. The media are attacking drug testing as a quality test, rather than a safety test.

The media twist things, it's their job, but i hardly think the quality test argument should be used even if testing saves ONE life. It's not an answer to stoping drug abuse/use but it's a saftey measure in teh same way as drug use education is.

At least the goverment in the UK and most of Europe have publisised the facts (don't drink too little water, don't drink too much water, don't drink alcohol and keep cool etc). I think they have a pretty good stance. But as i was telling Wombat last night, if yuo went to a club like Excalibur in my home town 50-60% of the people in there would be on E. So the problem is MUCH bigger and the goverment needs to be more pro-active.

They won't stop it any time soon, and until they do i think testing for safety is valid.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[bouncyboy]

Just let the city of chicago find out about a club that is testing pills for users. What a joke. You want to see a place get shut down faster then you could blink an eye? If anything they would just arrest the individual supplying the pill for testing and save him from any chance of it being bad that way. Bouncers don't tollerate drugs in clubs, neither do the club owners. They know it happens, but they strongly urge that it doesn't. Like I said above, until X becomes legal (yeah right) the situation is completely pointless to even think about.

B2B, I hear ya on the Europe thing, but Europe is a lot more lenient period on Drugs. Therefor I could see that sliding there, but here in the good ol' US of A, they would just assume arrest the person, and keep them from taking it period.

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[djamnfx]

That is true. Witht he rash of raids and shutdowns, more promoters are fearful to invite DanceSafe to their events. it sort of paints a big target to the authorities: "If DanceSafe is there, then raid the party!"

Not to be mean or coldhearted, but I also think that if someone is going to be stupid enough to buy an unknown pull from a total stranger at a party, then he/she deserves whatever dangers they receive. I don't do drugs (never had, never will), but even I know that if I wanted E, I would buy it from a trusted source.

D-Jam

<A HREF="/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?url=http://www.osmag.com" TARGET=_blank> </A>

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by bouncyboy:

Just let the city of chicago find out about a club that is testing pills for users. What a joke. You want to see a place get shut down faster then you could blink an eye? If anything they would just arrest the individual supplying the pill for testing and save him from any chance of it being bad that way. Bouncers don't tollerate drugs in clubs, neither do the club owners. They know it happens, but they strongly urge that it doesn't. Like I said above, until X becomes legal (yeah right) the situation is completely pointless to even think about.

B2B, I hear ya on the Europe thing, but Europe is a lot more lenient period on Drugs. Therefor I could see that sliding there, but here in the good ol' US of A, they would just assume arrest the person, and keep them from taking it period.

The issue isn't one of legality, drugs are illegal everywhere. It's if it's right or wrong, you can still allow testing and keep drugs illegal. Yeh i carn't see it happening here (espesially under a Republican Goverment), but i still think it's right.

The other thing that won't happen is allowing the clubs to have Paramedics. What this goverment would say is it's condoning drugs. The other argument is that people will take them, they have taken drugs for the last 2 or 3 thousand years, and it won't stop now. Infact it's getting worse. So if they they will take them at least try to mak it safer. If you not going to make it safer because it's illegal, why even treat people who OD in hospital? Why not just let them die. Because EVERYBODY deserve the best possible care, and the best possible care starts with prevention.

If you go to a concert there will be ambulances. If you go to a soccer match there will be, just in case something happens. But here the problem is put on the club owner, who carn't do anything because he isn't given the right to search properly. And if he was people wouldn't go. So what you get happeneing is the onld Twilo situation. People get messed up, the club tries to hide it, the people die or are seriously ill and the club get's done for something it could't have prevented. Because even if they would have sent them to hospital, the report would show the clubs name and they would be in trouble that way.

We all know how easy it is to get drugs in to clubs, or any other venue. So the system is stacked against clubs.

E's shoud't be legal, it totally send out the wrong message. Apart from the police and goverment not working WITH club owners, i think the system is doing well. The marginal people are not enticed by legality and the people who want to take and will take can get and take without worrying too much about getting cought. They are not hard to get, but not too easy.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[silente]

I think it's fabulous. People are going to get high no matter what - the least we can allow them to do is make sure they know what they're taking.

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Nothing can be as savage as love...one taste is never enough...

[der]

here's another idea: how bout people test their own shit?

For not much more than the cost of an effective dose, you can get an EZ test kit of your own and test a couple hundred pills. They're even available right from Dance Safe. If any of you has taken more than one dose this year, you should have your own test kit. Anyone you do business with should have one, and all your rolling buddies should have one too. If you rely on the "guinea pig" method of testing, who knows? the next guinea pig that dies may be a friend.

[bouncyboy]

Originally posted by silente:

I think it's fabulous. People are going to get high no matter what - the least we can allow them to do is make sure they know what they're taking.

People do have the opportunity to know what they are taking, that is why dancesafe sells home testing kits. That is the only way you are going to get a pill tested in this country without getting busted for having the pill itself. If they were to offer testing in clubs in this country it would be a setup to find the people possesing them. I don't think it will ever happen. But if you are wondering what is in your pills? Send one into dancesafe or buy one of those ez tests..

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[This message has been edited by bouncyboy (edited 06-28-2001).]

[kimberlyco]

Geese, I was asking about opinions, I know this doesn't happen in Chicago clubs, but they do have it at Raves etc... I asked "should they be allowed", I didn't think I needed to say specifically what I was looking for, it is a web board, give your opinions, use your mind, I thought it might be interesting to talk about something.

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Life is only complicated because you make it so. Remember what it was like to live carefree - and live that way again!

[kimberlyco]

How do you in someone statement into your message... I can't figure that out...

Well bouncy, you said "the situation is completely pointless to even think about"

I think they should allow it, better save than sorry. It isn't like they are doing any thing illegal besides knowing that there are drugs there. Testing isn't illeagal.

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Life is only complicated because you make it so. Remember what it was like to live carefree - and live that way again!

[bouncyboy]

Originally posted by kimberlyco:

I think they should allow it, better save than sorry. It isn't like they are doing any thing illegal besides knowing that there are drugs there. Testing isn't illeagal.

testing isn't illegal, but do you know how much trouble a club owner will get in if the cops find out that he is allowing testing in his club, and not throwing out or restraining the people that possess the drugs? That would make the entire club one big accessory to drug posession.

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by kimberlyco:

Testing isn't illeagal.

It isn't but even Dancesafe don't 'sell' kits they ask for a donation to protect themselves.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by der:

here's another idea: how bout people test their own shit?

For not much more than the cost of an effective dose, you can get an EZ test kit of your own and test a couple hundred pills. They're even available right from Dance Safe. If any of you has taken more than one dose this year, you should have your own test kit. Anyone you do business with should have one, and all your rolling buddies should have one too. If you rely on the "guinea pig" method of testing, who knows? the next guinea pig that dies may be a friend.

Yeh the thing about the EZ kit's is they don't help all that much. They don't detect PMA, they won't detect the 'bad batches' and if somebody comes out with a new formular (such as PMA) they may also test incorrectly. But it's better than nothing.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[bouncyboy]

it's better then nothing is correct. It's all we have other then sending to dancesafe. It will however detect DXM, and the color change will help to determine how much of the pill is actually MDMA or MDA. I bought one of those tests about a year ago, just to see if it worked and you would be surprised.

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[bouncyboy]

Originally posted by kimberlyco:

Geese, I was asking about opinions

it is a web board, give your opinions, use your mind, I thought it might be interesting to talk about something.

and what does it look like we are doing? I think everyone here is expressing their opinions. Everyone has a semi different view on the subject and we are discussing it. What is your opinion???

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[back2basics-]

Oh yeh i used to use the EZ test they are good. But i was lucky to have a VERY trusted source that i learnt to trust over time. As Der said i think that is the most important thing.

What ever you do, everybody be safe. It's easy to get complacent about E because it is so safe.

I havn't taken since i went back to the UK because i don't really trust anybody and buying in clubs is too risky for me.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[back2basics-]

Originally posted by djamnfx:

I hate to tell you this, but it is an issue of legality. Politicans listen to parents because parents vote for them. Parents don't want their children doing drugs, even if they were all psychadelic in the 60s. There is no bargining or reasoning with the police and politicans. You can't have it that they will bust a PMA dealer and not an MDMA dealer. You can't have it that they will stop a fight, or haul away a dehydrated kid, but not raid the party. You have to accept that, no matter how much you disgaree.

Yes people are getting high at games and big stadium concerts, but right now, clubs and raves are an easy target. The news media has shaped them into crackhouses in the public eye, and while the "outsiders" see them as the garden of forbidden fruits, the easy way for people like Mayor Daley to score votes is to shut them down.

I personally think that what one person does to his/her own body is their own business, but if a place like Galaxy Nightclub is shut down simply because someone bought E 10 miles from it, then you know that the scene is being watched with a close eye.

I said it once, and I will say it over and over: If you want to roll E, do it. No one is stopping you. If you want to test your pills or other's pills, great. More power to you. But if you want the scene to stay alive, then show some respect for it and stop taking E in the clubs and raves. You people have the power to take Daley's ammo right out of his hands and yet you don't do it!

If you want to keep telling me that "drugs are a part of the scene", then say that to me when places like Redno and Smart Bar are gone. Say that to me when the Aragon and Riviera will not allow Oakenfold, Digweed, and Dave Ralph to play there. You ever wonder why these glam clubs are in such high numbers? Places like White Star and Kustom? Ever wonder why Nocturnal BANNED any type of glow toys? Ever wonder why "proper attire" is all over? It's because club owners don't want to see their investment go to waste due to a couple of stupid kids ODing.

You can post whatever reply you want to this, but I will state the obvious:

1) E is illegal

2) DanceSafe is now being tracked by the DEA

3) As long as people like Daley and GW Bush are in power, there is no scene where people can take E and dance all night.

<A HREF="/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?url=http://www.d-jam.com" TARGET=_blank>D-Jam</A>

<A HREF="/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?url=http://www.osmag.com" TARGET=_blank> </A>

Well, i understand the vote issue i have mentioned it a few times myself.

BUT, the scene in Europe is much bigger, the drug problem is much bigger, and they still have productive drug testing. It's all part of the bigger picture, you can’t just allow drug testing and not try to educate as i have said.

You can’t just know that a pill is killing people and not tell people about it (see the BBC story i posted). Could you see that happening in the US? I couldn't. So is the police publishing pictures of 'bad' pills wrong? Does it accept that people are taking them and warn them in the same way as testing, probably. But you have to.

In Holland drugs are tolerated as far as users are concerned. You won't get arrested for carrying a small amount of E. you can test drugs just about everywhere. The politicians actually WIN votes for this open-minded attitude. The point i am trying to make is the society dictates your views, it molds you attitude. In Holland they are very open mined about everything, here it's quiet a bit less so. So people have the view that prohibition and denial is the best approach. BUT Holland has one of the lowest Heroin addiction problems anywhere in the world. Less people die of taking E in Holland than anywhere else in the world, even though they are readily available.

So is the problem we should be solving people with problems with drug, i.e. it is effecting there life and health, is it stopping people taking them or is it preventing death? That is decided by the individual society. Surley it should be ALL of them. But the question here is if it is wrong or right, not going in to the bigger picture of what would be allowed. It IS right because it saves lives and allows people to know what they are taking. If the US will allow it any time soon is a totally different question.

I know what you’re saying, but this is about discussion, not just stating the way things are. We all know that already.

Oh and you totally miss-understood the drugs are part of the scene statement. They ARE part of the scene and more so part of society. They always have been and they always will be, the drugs may change but they won’t go away.. Club owners don't want drugs in because here club owners are blamed for people getting in with drugs. They are blamed if people OD on their premises. You tell me how club owners can stop people getting drugs in? They can’t. And places like the white star lounge are full of drugs as well, just go in the bathroom and check the top of the toilet. Just check how much Coke is going on in there. People don't OD on Coke so it's not as high a profile club drug. And you know what, those clubs are allowing it. They don't check the toilets, if they did they would catch many more people because we all know it takes a while to chop out a line. And Coke is a MUCH worse drug than E, don't even try and tell me it isn't i know first hand.

So although i agree, i care much more about the scene than drug takers. I go to RedNo5 because it isn't as drugged out as let's say the Crobar. And although you have some good points, you will have to agree that the priorities are wrong at the moment. They are based on Media attention and not the facts, the media wins votes, when what is right and wrong should.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[kimberlyco]

Thanks b2b, you took the words out of my mouth.

Thanks Djam... I knew drugs were illegal. but that wasn't why I asked everyone's open minded creative opinion on it.

remind me never to start a topic like this again, geese

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Life is only complicated because you make it so. Remember what it was like to live carefree - and live that way again!

[bouncyboy]

Originally posted by kimberlyco:

Thanks b2b, you took the words out of my mouth.

Thanks Djam... I knew drugs were illegal. but that wasn't why I asked everyone's open minded creative opinion on it.

remind me never to start a topic like this again, geese

Kim, you asked for opinions and people gave them.. If you are going to start a topic to ask for opinions be ready to hear all types of opinions, Ideas, and theories on the subject you posted...

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AOL IM BouncyBy

[der]

kim, there's nothing wrong w/ this topic. This topic opens up discussion on a lot of things and this is one of the few forums that people can talk freely about illegal substances so long as the discussion is not about transactions regarding them. Relax, it's just a discussion.

Which brings me to this:

I believe in law and order. I believe in education and people increasing in maturity, knowledge, and self control. I also believe in cognitive liberties. By that, I mean that people should be allowed the freedom of a well educated choice to alter their own state of consciousness.

drug use is an everyday thing, legal or not. Any of you drink coffee? Use Motrin or Tylenol for a headache? As far as recreational drugs in the party scene, it's always gonna be part of the scene. AND YES, ALCHOHOL IS A DRUG. It's a legal drug, just like caffiene and nicotine, but is it any less damaging to your body than illegal ones? Are there any less harmful incidents w/ alchohol?

If legality were not an issue, people would usually opt for a drug that is more economic and has a better buzz. To a lot of people the risk of taking any particular illegal drug puts them at no greater legal danger than going 5 miles over the speed limit or jaywalking.

Dance Safe does a lot to promote education of certain substances. This is proactive to any dangerous incidents which is a basis for harm reduction. DJam, I know you're trying to be proactive to clubs getting shut down. Almost a year ago I worried about the same thing and it brought me deeper into the problem, past the politics and legalities and personal motivation. It took me to education and rational choices.

People should be well aware of what they're putting in their bodies. They should know an effective dose, how it relates to their body weight, all the possible side effects, possible experiences, and recovery methods. They should also know their own personal thresholds and what is involved when pushing it. Armed with this knowledge, people can make rational decisions regarding any drug, legal or not and reduce danger to themselves and their partying buddies.

[djamnfx]

Originally posted by back2basics-:

The issue isn't one of legality, drugs are illegal everywhere.

I hate to tell you this, but it is an issue of legality. Politicans listen to parents because parents vote for them. Parents don't want their children doing drugs, even if they were all psychadelic in the 60s. There is no bargining or reasoning with the police and politicans. You can't have it that they will bust a PMA dealer and not an MDMA dealer. You can't have it that they will stop a fight, or haul away a dehydrated kid, but not raid the party. You have to accept that, no matter how much you disgaree.

Yes people are getting high at games and big stadium concerts, but right now, clubs and raves are an easy target. The news media has shaped them into crackhouses in the public eye, and while the "outsiders" see them as the garden of forbidden fruits, the easy way for people like Mayor Daley to score votes is to shut them down.

I personally think that what one person does to his/her own body is their own business, but if a place like Galaxy Nightclub is shut down simply because someone bought E 10 miles from it, then you know that the scene is being watched with a close eye.

I said it once, and I will say it over and over: If you want to roll E, do it. No one is stopping you. If you want to test your pills or other's pills, great. More power to you. But if you want the scene to stay alive, then show some respect for it and stop taking E in the clubs and raves. You people have the power to take Daley's ammo right out of his hands and yet you don't do it!

If you want to keep telling me that "drugs are a part of the scene", then say that to me when places like Redno and Smart Bar are gone. Say that to me when the Aragon and Riviera will not allow Oakenfold, Digweed, and Dave Ralph to play there. You ever wonder why these glam clubs are in such high numbers? Places like White Star and Kustom? Ever wonder why Nocturnal BANNED any type of glow toys? Ever wonder why "proper attire" is all over? It's because club owners don't want to see their investment go to waste due to a couple of stupid kids ODing.

You can post whatever reply you want to this, but I will state the obvious:

1) E is illegal

2) DanceSafe is now being tracked by the DEA

3) As long as people like Daley and GW Bush are in power, there is no scene where people can take E and dance all night.

D-Jam

<A HREF="/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?url=http://www.osmag.com" TARGET=_blank> </A>

[kimberlyco]

bouncy, i was just being my normal smartass self

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Life is only complicated because you make it so. Remember what it was like to live carefree - and live that way again!