Prozac/Rolling- Serious Question

[Crackorn]

A friend of mine has been on Prozac for a month now and the last time she dropped she didn't roll at all. It apparently wasn't the pills since her friends all had a good roll. Does any one know the E/Prozac relationship? Does taking Prozac prohibit the release of seretonin by your receptors? Is there an amount of days you can go off the prescribed medication so the illegal medication will actually work or do the two always cancel each other out?

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Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town.

I'm C.O.'d.

AIM: crackorn71

[paranoidandroid]

i know people who have had good rolls on prozac but prozac and E interact heavily.

basically prozac is an SRI. seratonin re-uptake inhibitor. it works in the following way:

your nervous system normally uses dopamine and seratonin for transmission between cells, the way you actually feel anything is due to these chemicals being exchanged across nerve cell boundaries. normally, a certain amount of seratonin (and dopamine) is reabsorbed from the gap between nerve cells into the transmitting cell. prozac is a substance that is preferentially absorbed and overtime, this leads to seratonin build up in the nerve cells and hence a reduction in depression.

the postulated way that E works is that it encourages seratonin release and hence your nervous system is suddenly extremely sensitive because the transmission between cells is massively increased hence the heightened feeling.

it has been suggested that taking prozac at the same time will reduce the harmful after effects of E which are supposed to come from reabsorption of seratonin outside of the cell boundaries at which point as they are oxidising agents, can cause damage to the nerve cells.

i'd recommend checking any of the usual dance safe kind of sites for more information.

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* i love sex always and forever *

and they tell me that women grow on trees

and if you catch them right they will land upon their knees

[gravity]

Prozac increases levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter. It is effective in treating the entire spectrum of depression from the milder types to the most severe. It is also very valuable in treating obsessional thought and compulsive behavior. Prozac is useful in panic disorder and other types of anxiety and phobia. As a result, it usually increases concentration, energy, and mental acuity. The vast majority of people with any of the above problems start to function at a much higher level. They claim to feel less oppressed by life and generally happier.

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"The world is a better place because of those who refuse to believe they can't

fly."

[divalicious]

*poking head in*

Sorry to interrupt fellas, but uh... Crackorn has a serious post?

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Peace Love Happiness y'all

DivaliciousNYC@aol.com

[This message has been edited by divalicious (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Crackorn]

Thank you for the info Suneil/other guy. As for YOU, Ms. M, you are one sexy mamma!

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Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town.

I'm C.O.'d.

AIM: crackorn71

[Crackorn]

Originally posted by saintjsc:

I'm not going to repeat the whole neurochemical explaination of why E and Prozac is a bad idea..i will only sum it up as this..

Anyone that take Prozac and E is a fucking MORON. YES A FUCKING MORON..GO AHEAD BRING IT ON I AM RIGHT HERE AND ANYONE ELSE WHO SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS WRONG.

People that are clinically diagnosed w/ mental disorders shouldn't be taking Ecstasy anyway!!!! what are u stupid.."oh yeah..im depressed normally..let me take a pill thats gonna make me hate my life uncontrollably tomorrow " get real ..

If you're gonna do E w/ prozac.. eliminate the middle man..go for the gold and cook up some clorox with your ketamine.

sigh

jsc

Someone needs to smoke a big fatty and calm his ass down!!!!!

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Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town.

I'm C.O.'d.

AIM: crackorn71

[saintjsc]

Originally posted by Crackorn:

Someone needs to smoke a big fatty and calm his ass down!!!!!

wanna supply the weed... we will sit calmly and discuss this topic

[Crackorn]

OK

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Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town.

I'm C.O.'d.

AIM: crackorn71

[paranoidandroid]

Originally posted by saintjsc:

I'm not going to repeat the whole neurochemical explaination of why E and Prozac is a bad idea..i will only sum it up as this..

Anyone that take Prozac and E is a fucking MORON. YES A FUCKING MORON..GO AHEAD BRING IT ON I AM RIGHT HERE AND ANYONE ELSE WHO SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS WRONG.

People that are clinically diagnosed w/ mental disorders shouldn't be taking Ecstasy anyway!!!! what are u stupid.."oh yeah..im depressed normally..let me take a pill thats gonna make me hate my life uncontrollably tomorrow " get real ..

If you're gonna do E w/ prozac.. eliminate the middle man..go for the gold and cook up some clorox with your ketamine.

sigh

jsc

actually some psychiatrists have used ecstasy to treat some people with clinically diagnosed mental disorders. doing E with prozac is just as bad as doing E on it's own (but it's not worse). i would like to hear the neurochemical explanation of why E and prozac is bad because the neurochemical explanation i've heard suggest the opposite.

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* i love sex always and forever *

and they tell me that women grow on trees

and if you catch them right they will land upon their knees

[Crackorn]

Originally posted by filthy_slag:

actually some psychiatrists have used ecstasy to treat some people with clinically diagnosed mental disorders. doing E with prozac is just as bad as doing E on it's own (but it's not worse). i would like to hear the neurochemical explanation of why E and prozac is bad because the neurochemical explanation i've heard suggest the opposite.

Suneil, please rephrase your request in a more derogatory and condescending way. Thank you.

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Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town.

I'm C.O.'d.

AIM: crackorn71

[shugabooga]

you might wanna check the substances board for more info on this. bottom line is i don't think the two should be combined.

[bratnik]

I dont understand .. if your taking prozac to get better why would you mess with drugs?

[Crackorn]

I posted this to receive intelligent answers, like filthy slags' and gravity's. I want to know WHY it shouldn't be done. JEEZ!

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Too crazy for Boys Town, too much of a boy for Crazy Town.

I'm C.O.'d.

AIM: crackorn71

[e-tarded]

First of all, both SSRI's (Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors )(This includes Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, and the like, and no, there really isn't any difference between them for our purposes here) and Ecstasy both have affinity (Meaning they will interact with and affect) the brain's seratonin reuptake transporters. Seratonin has an extremely important role in brain chemistry, as we all know, and regulates all sorts of things. SSRI's work by stopping the seratonin reuptake in the brain. The idea is for those that are depressed is that by reducing the amount of seratonin reabsorbed back into one's neurochemical system (and thereby increasing the amount of seratonin present), an increased amount of seratonin will help people feel better (With the help of therapy, of course. Very rarely will SSRI's work without the will and help of both the user and his/her doctor.)

Okay, now for the role of Ecstasy. Ecstasy works by flooding the synapse in the brain with seratonin. (again, as we all know.) Because Ecstasy uses the actual reputake transporter mechanism to cause serotonin release, obviously any sort of chemical (Like an SSRI) blocking that mechanism (Which SSRI's do,) with a higher affinity for it (Like Ecstasy) will severely reduce or completely eliminate the affects of the Ecstasy. Ecstasy (beyond the threshold dose of ~40-60mg) without the presence of SSRI's generally drains a large amount of the brain's seratonin for 12-24 hours, and the brain has generally not reached full seratonin levels for up to a week afterwards.

SSRI's "downregulate" (inhibit the efficiency & the ability) of seratonin reuptake transporters. This means SSRI's affect your brain's seratonin system in a negative way as well as a positive way; the idea is that the positive effects outweigh the negative i.e. higher seratonin levels outweight the fact that your brain isn't using it as efficiently. Basically this means that even for MONTHS after one quits taking an SSRI, the brain is less efficient at using seratonin. Those who go off SSRI's and take E, even MONTHS later, will most likely have a REDUCED roll, regardless of the amount of E you take. Essentially, your brain's maximum of seratonin concentration (what makes rolling feel good) goes DOWN. So taking more only excacerbates the OTHER affects, like the dopaminergic (feeling speedy)and side-effects (like jaw-clenching).

Because SSRI's (prescribed for depression, as opposed to premature ejaculation, for example, because, yes, SSRI's almost always reduce ability to reach orgasm) are prescribed to help people assumed to have seratonin imbalances, most people on SSRI's (prescribed for depression) DO HAVE some sort of seratonin imbalance, tapering one's SSRI's (regardless of the time period, from cold turkey to a month or so) to do Ecstasy is A VERY DANGEROUS THING. It will often lead to an incredible low of depression. I'm talking absolute hell. I'm NOT trying to be anti at all, but I am speaking from my experience and the experience of many people I've talked with. It's just so dangerous for those predisposed to clinical depression (I'm not talking about being sad because your dog got hit by a car, I'm talking diagnosed by a doctor), and those predisposed or suffering clinical depression are often on SSRI's.

Quick Summary:

1. SSRI's (all of 'em) inhibit or prevent rolling

2. Those taking SSRI's for depression generally have seratonin imbalance issues

3. Taking E really fucks up your seratonin for a while.

4. For many, this isn't a problem

5. BUT, for those on SSRI's, it may very well be a VERY serious problem.

6. Rolling after being on SSRI's for any significant amount of time will most likely be reduced.

7. Think AT LEAST twice about it

Some warning signs you may be more likely to have a problem when you take E after being on SSRI's (collected from experience)

1. After missing doses (1 day-several days-week-whenever) you go through a withdrawal (i.e. nauseau, "brain bounce"->electro-shock sensations in your head when you move suddenly, or vertigo->feeling like you don't have balance or are "falling up" or sideways.

2. You were/are on a relatively high dose of your med

3. You were/are prone to anxiety attacks associated with your depression

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~*P*L*U*R*~

Four Simple Words To Live By....

[saintjsc]

Originally posted by filthy_slag:

actually some psychiatrists have used ecstasy to treat some people with clinically diagnosed mental disorders.

true.. i believe the pills were most readily available in 125mg caplets..but do u think psychiatrists wrote a prescription for the patients to take home.."here are 60 pills of mdma.. take one every 6 hours or whenever you feel sad"...NOOOO way.. they were used only in controlled therapy sessions to get patients to open up, to re-"awaken" trauma patients, and in some cases for marriage counseling.

hmm..but damn.. to think if they WOULD have been prescribed in the manner which percocet and vicadin are nowadays...wowowow..

"just having a moment"

[weyes]

ok, kids, a couple of things...

i'm really sick of a lot of shit that's being said here. some of you guys are trying to drop knowledge about this topic when you've only read about antidepressants and/or the actual scientific effects of e in "the face" or some silly magazine like that. i'm not going to listen to anything you say until i see that you've actually done more extensive research or that you've got a degree in psychopharmacology.

and as for the people who say, "why do the depressed and people with other problems do drugs? are they MORONS?" think about it and use a little common sense. put yourself in these people's' place; if you feel shitty, you'll do anything to feel better, and e makes a lot of people feel like, well, they're in ecstasy. what's hard to understand about that? doing drugs is dangerous, but for them, a night of feeling like they're on top of the world may just be worth it.

so quit your condescension. you'd probably do it too.

[jennEfer]

Combining ecstacy and prozac is a definate no, no. I have this friend who was on prozac due to her depression problems. On weekends we used to go to this kids house to roll, dance, and have a good time. After awhile she became distant and stopped hanging out with us. I had noticed she was out of school for about a week and when she came back she was trying to hide the slash marks on her arms. She had been in the hospital because she was slitting her wrists, probably the results of combining the two drugs.

[saintjsc]

Originally posted by weyes:

i'm not going to listen to anything you say until i see that you've actually done more extensive research or that you've got a degree in psychopharmacology.

Passed an international exam in higher level biochemistry before i even GOT to college.

Conducted a 2 year study on Psychoactive drugs and their links to schizophrenia while in college.

Regularly read journals such as JAMA for shits and giggles cause yes.. call it a dry hobby or a boring one..but medicine and psychotherapy actually interest this college graduate

So what if we've done it..thats besides the point...one of my old chem professors used to make his own lsd...... one thing i haven't done is mix prozac w/ e etc etc..

I've done my homework

jsc

[peligro]

Dunno if this is a serious post or not but I'll give a serious answer. I don't know the chemistry behind it, but in my experience mixing Prozac and E is a BAD IDEA. I did it one time and enjoyed the high but the next day had the worst down of my life. I'll spare you the details but take my word for it, it was awful. Tell your friend not to fuck around...Either quit Prozac or quit E, but don't mix 'em.

[bratnik]

Why would you do drugs if you were on prozac???

[saintjsc]

I'm not going to repeat the whole neurochemical explaination of why E and Prozac is a bad idea..i will only sum it up as this..

Anyone that take Prozac and E is a fucking MORON. YES A FUCKING MORON..GO AHEAD BRING IT ON I AM RIGHT HERE AND ANYONE ELSE WHO SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS WRONG.

People that are clinically diagnosed w/ mental disorders shouldn't be taking Ecstasy anyway!!!! what are u stupid.."oh yeah..im depressed normally..let me take a pill thats gonna make me hate my life uncontrollably tomorrow " get real ..

If you're gonna do E w/ prozac.. eliminate the middle man..go for the gold and cook up some clorox with your ketamine.

sigh

jsc