dialectics Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2001/06/20/rave_feature/index.html my first thought was "ok that's it i'm moving to london", and then i remembered 3 magic words "criminal justice bill". the only way we can stop this dranconian bullsh*t is to mobilize. peaz,rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echostar Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 lol,"and massage tables (where God knows what nefarious activities might occur)."------------------ transcend 1. To pass beyond the limits of2. To be greater than, as in intensity or power; surpass3. To exist above and independent of (material experience or the universe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somebitch Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 "Lately raves are just a venue for drug purchases. They are no more than analogous to a crack house, in which you go buy the drugs and go out the back door. Although there's music being played, and the people at the raves are saying, 'I come here for the music,' drugs are predominant in these rave clubs. And it's just a mix of drugs and music, and it's become a venue for drug purchases." this is such bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlichau Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 I want to laugh-but it's kind of scary! ------------------As I dance I create my own language... with every beat of my heart is the music I will dance through life to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2basics- Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Anybody want to tell me why pacifiers, Vicks VapoRub and dust masks used in clubs ARN'T drug paraphernalia?Of course they are I have said it before, but go to one of these rave sites. Look at the pictures, they are FULL of kids on E. Now voteing parents arn't going to be too happy, what do you expect them to do?If you know where to look there is always a party. But they will try to control it and that is fair enough.------------------I want to go out blazing..not fade away.Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmikedr Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 there have always been and there will always be drugs of one sort or another.Eliminate one, and one will take it's place.------------------DJmikeDR@aol.com aim: DJmikeDR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjay Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Okay, all that stuff is definitely drug paraphenlia. When is the last time you put on a dust mask and took a jog? The glowstick thing is taking it a wee bit far, of course...despite how incredibly annoying glowsticks are, perhaps I dont really mind Whats up with "Techno" & "Raves" being associated with drugs when a lot (not all) of hip hop preaches abuse on women, drugs, violence, and "laying bones on hoes" makes me wonder...------------------ http://www.rhythm-addiction.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjay Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 um, oops ------------------ <A HREF="/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?url=http://www.rhythm-addiction.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.rhythm-addiction.com</A> [This message has been edited by sanjay (edited 06-20-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babymamas2 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 The reason techno and raves are associated with drugs is because most of the people at clubs and raves are on drugs, if they were all sober, every party would suck. humans will alter their mind states and dance. since the days when a shaman passed out psychedelic roots and mushrooms, and then we beat on drums and danced around a fire. a rave or club is the same thing. it's about the dissolution of self and becoming part of something larger, the VIBE.as for hip hop, anytime it is in the media it is only mentioned with the negative elements of it that you have mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris817 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 they are just blowing smoke raves started as underground parties and will continue and even if they do shut them down, you guys will be going to clubs. i have not been at a rave since i was 20 so have no fear you will still have a place to party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialectics Posted June 20 Author Report Share Posted June 20 Most of the times I go to clubs/raves, I do so completely sober. I will not be a hypocrite and say I don't like to roll/trip/smoke, etc., because I do. But what i'm saying is that the vibe is still there without drugs. The premise behind raves is so multifaceted that to say its only about drugs is to cheapen it.It is about finding a place in the world where the old-guard rules don't matter. why can't you hug someone after only knowing them for 5 minutes? why can't you go up to someone and tell them that they're beautiful? why do you have to suppress your feelings or hide your emotions? It is about finding a micro-society where you can think freely or not think at all. It is a way of experiencing beauty, self, soul and truth. It is about being alone, cofortable within yourself, while being surrounded by the energy of ten thousand like-minded people.At raves we welcome newcomers - how many times have you hugged a stranger when you found out it was their first party? Rave culture is not like hippie culture - its not something you need to experience every day. Its a special place you can go to to feel free, to transcend. we don't need to take down the establishment - let those babies have their bottles - we just want to exist in a world without their rules for a little while. however they are afraid of the unknown - they see us as a challange. jazz in its prime was rebellious and on the edge - now you take your date to a jazz club to be classy. The same goes for rock - it was persecuted like the witches of salem, and now it is standard fare, even for those passing the laws today. Also, raves don't have corporate dollars (ie Clear Channel) behind them, and the anarchic ravers would never consider shoveling money into the crooked political system anyway.They call America the land of the free, but they should change that name to the land of the protected. We regularly give up our civil liberties in the name of security. Aside from freedom of assembly and freedom of the press which have been pillaged by the so-called crackhouse laws and the methamphetamine anti-proliferation bill, we are losing our right to know. People PROFIT by us not knowing the truth. Politicians stay in power because they say they are tough on drugs. The NIDA club-drugs website makes their stance perfectly clear - they will suppress all findings which say anything other than MDMA is a killer of amerikkkan youth. This country is doing what we accuse red china or the former ussr of doing - hiding information from the population to keep them from acting in their rational self interest. And they do it because they say its for our own good.I am not reccomending legalization of drugs. I personally don't think its the answer, tho i'm sure many will argue with me. I'm saying go after the dealers, the murderers, the profiteers, the racketters. Don't go after the users who should have the right to have ALL of the facts and make their own mistakes. Don't go after the club owners and promoters who make (or should be making) every effort to keep people from selling or taking drugs inside their premisis. Instead allow them to work with the people in the know so that they can make a concerted effort to provide a safe environment for anyone who will be dancing for 12 hours straight. Don't go after the fukkin chill room.After all, we make your coffee. We program your computer systems. We babysit your kids. You brought us up in a world of artificial boundaries and left us your mess to clean up. Give us our space to live our lives for one night a week, even if that space is something that you do not understand. OK, that was long and all over the place so I think I'd better stop here and do some real work... until then this stuff is just my opinion, etc.. etc..peaz,rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harley1 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Hey, don't put vicks in a vial or next they are going to say that vials are drug paraphenalia. Oh wait...Um, maybe we could put the stuff inside the glowstick inside a hyperdermic needle instead. Oh no, that wouldn't work either. Fuck. We're screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2basics- Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Originally posted by dialectics:Most of the times I go to clubs/raves, I do so completely sober. I will not be a hypocrite and say I don't like to roll/trip/smoke, etc., because I do. But what i'm saying is that the vibe is still there without drugs. The premise behind raves is so multifaceted that to say its only about drugs is to cheapen it.It is about finding a place in the world where the old-guard rules don't matter. why can't you hug someone after only knowing them for 5 minutes? why can't you go up to someone and tell them that they're beautiful? why do you have to suppress your feelings or hide your emotions? It is about finding a micro-society where you can think freely or not think at all. It is a way of experiencing beauty, self, soul and truth. It is about being alone, cofortable within yourself, while being surrounded by the energy of ten thousand like-minded people.At raves we welcome newcomers - how many times have you hugged a stranger when you found out it was their first party? Rave culture is not like hippie culture - its not something you need to experience every day. Its a special place you can go to to feel free, to transcend. we don't need to take down the establishment - let those babies have their bottles - we just want to exist in a world without their rules for a little while. however they are afraid of the unknown - they see us as a challange. jazz in its prime was rebellious and on the edge - now you take your date to a jazz club to be classy. The same goes for rock - it was persecuted like the witches of salem, and now it is standard fare, even for those passing the laws today. Also, raves don't have corporate dollars (ie Clear Channel) behind them, and the anarchic ravers would never consider shoveling money into the crooked political system anyway.They call America the land of the free, but they should change that name to the land of the protected. We regularly give up our civil liberties in the name of security. Aside from freedom of assembly and freedom of the press which have been pillaged by the so-called crackhouse laws and the methamphetamine anti-proliferation bill, we are losing our right to know. People PROFIT by us not knowing the truth. Politicians stay in power because they say they are tough on drugs. The NIDA club-drugs website makes their stance perfectly clear - they will suppress all findings which say anything other than MDMA is a killer of amerikkkan youth. This country is doing what we accuse red china or the former ussr of doing - hiding information from the population to keep them from acting in their rational self interest. And they do it because they say its for our own good.I am not reccomending legalization of drugs. I personally don't think its the answer, tho i'm sure many will argue with me. I'm saying go after the dealers, the murderers, the profiteers, the racketters. Don't go after the users who should have the right to have ALL of the facts and make their own mistakes. Don't go after the club owners and promoters who make (or should be making) every effort to keep people from selling or taking drugs inside their premisis. Instead allow them to work with the people in the know so that they can make a concerted effort to provide a safe environment for anyone who will be dancing for 12 hours straight. Don't go after the fukkin chill room.After all, we make your coffee. We program your computer systems. We babysit your kids. You brought us up in a world of artificial boundaries and left us your mess to clean up. Give us our space to live our lives for one night a week, even if that space is something that you do not understand. OK, that was long and all over the place so I think I'd better stop here and do some real work... until then this stuff is just my opinion, etc.. etc..peaz,robCan i just say that this very nicely written and you are obviousley very passionate about your scene. Problem is passion acts as a blinker, it makes you see a romantic version of the truth.The current rave culture in the US, is exactly the same as the acid house culture in the UK from about 12 years ago. The cloths, the parifinalia, the ideal's, EVERYTHING. The hugging and telling people they are beutifull. It may not all be MDMA induced (you say you go sober), but most of it is. MDMA makes yuo feel at one, feel plur and all that stuff. But 5 days later your back to you own self. Ok maybe you not, but 5 years later you could well be a manic depressed recluse for 6 months. MDMA does that to to you, oh yes it does. I have seen it scores of time in people. I have been to thousands of rave, warehouse parties over the last 12 years and i TOTALLY disagree that without the drugs the vibe would be there.As far as not going after the users, i agree, don't put so much effort in to that as the dealers. But it's supply and demand, as the demand goes up so does the price, so does the profit and so does the motivation to become a dealer. You cannot attack the drug issue at one level you must attack it at all levels. With the normal police on the streets getting users, FBI etc getting the bigger dealers and DEA and army hitting the growers. On to the bouderies issue. Now i think this is interesting. The last time youth culture were disolusioned with the way things were was the 60's. Vietnam and wars in general pissed people off. So what happed the retreated in to a totally unreal world or drugs and music, then in the late 60's early 70's people realised it would't do any good and the protests began and change happened. You conection to Jazz and rock and roll, yeh yoru right, when the conection with drugs Jazz in the 50's, and R&R in the 70's (when the hippie era ended) was broken they then became credible. This is happening in Europe now and will happen here, when that connection is lost.In the late 80's the youth of England did the same. 'Raves', acid house parties were rife. It was the 'summer of love' that lasted 10 years. Now the very same people are protesting about various issues from capitalism to reclaiming the streets. Point is we have all called out drugged out weekends an 'escape'. But at some point (your drug taking won't last forever) you won't be able to escape and you will be faced with the issues, what you going to do then?Anyway nice reading your point of view.------------------I want to go out blazing..not fade away.Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silente Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 I think we'll all agree that drugs have played (and continue to play) an important role in the culture that we love. We've gotten congratulatory hugs from strangers because we made it to a party, or walked up to someone and told them how spectacular their pants are - in short, we can all say that drugs (particularly E) have positively influenced our lives and our party experiences. And, like B2B said, I don't think it's right to assume that the club/rave culture would be the same without E - the huggy, loving, positive vibes are largely the product of rolling kids and E-nannies. But what's important to remember (and what authorities tend to forget) is that we've *chosen* to ingest a dangerous chemical. MDMA has been consumed with at least some knowledge of the risks and dangers involved. It's no different (in principle) than a guy having some beers with his buddies at the end of a work week - relaxing with some friends, feeling the good vibe, all that. The fact that authorities are choosing to target a *particular* type of culture, a *particular* kind of music, is what's most upsetting - it sets a dangerous precedent for the kinds of discriminatory behavior the public is apparently willing to allow, and ultimately that tacit permission to persecute is what will prove most problematic.------------------Nothing can be as savage as love...one taste is never enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crobra Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 I must say it's a very sad day and very scary day in American History - How can these people be from the hippie generation, they have no understanding of anything today - I wonder if that's how I am going to be when I get old!! ------------------I put forth a generall inclination of all mankind, a perpetuall and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death. Hobbes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjay Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 You know what i say?Fuck it, lets have a drink and forget the whole damn thing. (anyone who knows where that quote is from gets brownie points)------------------ http://www.rhythm-addiction.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialectics Posted June 21 Author Report Share Posted June 21 sanjay: that is from grosse pointe blank, and the thing is that i'm not too interested in having a drink. i don't like alcohol or atmospheres built around its consumption - and i especially don't like the way i feel upon drinking it. i believe that there are two stances our regulators can take, the "its bad for you, therefore lets make it illegal to protect everyone" approach or the "well its your body do what you want with it" approach. the trouble is that we're getting these completely diametrically opposed viewpoints shoved down our throats. Marijuana bad, alcohol good. Marijuana (relaxant, relatively harmless) bad, alcohol (encourages violence and mysoginy, burns holes in your brain and liver) good. Just so happens that one of them has old money behind it. I wonder if, in 100 years time, we'll look at this era as "prohibition", the same way we see the 20's.b2b and silent2: thank you for your comments, very much appreciated. I agree with both of you that the giang group-hug atmosphere probably wouldn't have existed without pillz. I mean I remember going to massives in 93-94 when the whole thing was so new to me, and listening to old-skool people saying "Man it was so much better back in the day, these new kids they don't know anything"....I think I should have said it clearer - what I was trying to get at was that I make the personal choice not to roll most of the time I go out. It is a misstatement for the powers that be to say that we are only there for the drugs. The drugs are there, just like they are in any other scene or lifestyle (including POLITICS, LAW and BUSINESS), but, like most other lifestyles, there is so much more to it then that. E has had a profound effect on my life. I rolled a lot my last year in college - I had just gotten into Columbia, made a film, brokenhearted about my ex-girlfriend, and taking rediculously easy requirements i needed to graduate. I was a miserable wreck about my ex, but my life was on autopilot and all I had to do was not die until september when i could start grad school. i hadn't rolled in years, and only started because my friends from home picked it up, and we started doing it together. We had parties, went to raves all over the place, smoked every night and dropped every weekend. But what it did for me was amazing. It was during those 6 months that I realized that I needed to be happy with myself before I could ever make someone else happy. It was then that I also decided that my path in life was to become a professor, to teach and to research artificial intelligence. That time is over now, though. As much as I miss it and would love to go back, I've moved on. I'm doing what truly makes me happy, and while my life is far from perfect, at least I'm happy with who I am and where I'm going. Right now I use raves as a sort of a roller coaster - a way of letting go and facing your fears, but in a place where you know you'll be safe. It is a place to get away from the pressures of academia for 10 hours a week, be around my friends and be at one with my thoughts. Its not about working for the weekend like the disco people did, for me its almost a spiritual thing. I know this is compeltely naive of me to say but it is a total shock to think that there are people who find that a NEGATIVE thing. Ah, but I digress. Thank you all for reading, for your feedback and ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialectics Posted June 21 Author Report Share Posted June 21 oh yeah... i guess i should clarify this as well... i don't think that taking pills every weekend was what caused me to be "enlightened"... it was the fact that when i did it, i saw a place where i could be happy without all of the bullsh*t, baggage and regret that had been keeping me back for years. once i saw that place through the drug, i realized that i could reach it without them. Its a personal journey, the kind that everyone should have the right to make. ok that's it from me now peaz,rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckayser Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Maybe 7-11 should be considered a drug den as well. 2 weeks ago I saw 2 guys and a girl drinking cough syrup outside. Dur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silente Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 You know, if they're gonna fight a war on drugs, fine. Whatever. It's their perogative to be party poopers. But at the very least, they could have the decency to say the war is for *them*, not for us. I don't want their goddamn war. At least when the US was fighting WWII, they didn't claim that dropping the Atomic bomb was beneficial to the Japanese. ------------------Nothing can be as savage as love...one taste is never enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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