WTF is up with the US?

[x-t-c]

This is taken from another message board.....

"Alright, so i'm sitting back in my chair watching the Berlin Loveparade happening right now, with millions of people going crazy in the streets, having a great time, to some incredible music , and the usual question happens:

Why is this not happening here?"

"After so long, it doesn't make sense. Now i've been into the music for years, and there's always this hype every year that 'its catching on', 'things are changing', 'just a few more years and it'll be the same'."

"I'm starting to have my doubts. Every person I meet outside the scene is as clueless as they were 3 years ago. I don't know if it'll ever be like that here."

"Why is it like this? Is it ever going to change?"

...what are you guys opinions on this????

peace...

[dieg0]

I've asked myself the same question all the time man...

I mean how is it that we've got all these cheezy, pre-fabricated, bubble gum groups topping the charts nowadays and yet music that is popular in pretty much the rest of globe does not catch on here???

I mean what is it about the american public that doesn't let it open there minds a bit to some good music??

Well maybe for the same reasons they haven't accepted soccer as a sport much like the rest of the world has.....

American culture is more closeminded and repressed than european culture.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by dieg0

American culture is more closeminded and repressed than european culture.

sad, but so true.. I’m so glad; I have had the experience of traveling, and living abroad. It’s made a world a difference; in how I view things. when I have children; I definitely will encourage them. to experience as much of the world as possible.

peace, sobeton

[Treepwood]

Yesturday i was watching the love parade over the internet also

and i was amazed by how big it is, and i thought ultra was pretty big. Well to think ultra had a lot more talent that all the 16 djs love parade had. To think that everyone at the love parade wanted to watch PvD. Well its amazing how we had talent like Digweed, Deep Dish and Nick Warren we still didn't have half the people the love parade had. Wish we could get that turn out for the events here.

[patrickl]

I don't think this music will ever truly catch on in this country. Sure, dance music resonates with a fair subset of the population in places like Miami, NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit.......but these cities have *always* been more receptive to dance music. The music we listen to will never become "mainstream" here to the current definition of the term. Even in Miami, out of the zillions of people we have living here, do you think even 85% would have a clue who John Digweed is? I don't think so. I doubt that most people even know the names Paul Oakenfold or Ferry Corsten. All they know is what they hear on Power 96.......Castles In The Sky, Darude - Sandstorm, Fragma - Toca's Miracle. I think that the state of radio right now simply won't allow for this music to fully catch on here the way it has in Europe. Most cities don't even get what we get on Power 96! Especially the in the thousands of little one-horse Republican-voting towns in America where all people do on Friday night is park in the Wal-Mart parking lot, turn on some country music and suck back Budweiser all night, you think these people will ever have a clue?? As long as we have the same 3 corporations controlling every radio station in the country, playing the same schlock over and over again, music will not progress in this country, at least not in a mainstream light. Does anyone notice that you never get truly great music infiltrating the public consciousness anymore the way it once did in the 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s? Radio is to blame. Most people don't take the time and effort to seek out good new music the way we do; radio does certainly not provide that service. Most people are simply content to eat up what they are served.

patrick

"we've been living life inside a bubble"

[pod]

Dance music as we know it will never go 'mainstream' here in the US. In an addendum to what PatrickL says, we think a lot of stuff is mainstream because we hear it on the radio. Miami's a unique market, due to the scene and all, so the music we listen to will trickle onto the airwaves. But to hear even Sandstorm in Peoria, IL or Sisterfuck, AL would mean hell froze over. It's true, I grew up in a small town, and Saturday night entertainment was considered asking a bum to buy a case, here's an extra 6 bucks for you mr. bum sir, and then go to someone's house, get loaded and listen to Dave "I need a .50 cal round in the base of my spine" Matthews till 2 AM. I've visited that hometown, and the comments I get for being in Miami are priceless (ranging from "Betcha you speak killer Spanish now" --idiots don't realize I'm half colombian to begin with -- to "There's a lot of fags in South Beach, right?" -- ignorant farmboys!)

So basically, America as a whole will never be one for a totally immersive club/rave culture, and except in the major cities, the movement is merely a fad. Good and bad, ya know?

[shroomy]

Its funny... the same people who wonder why electronic music doesn't go mainstream are the same people who reminisce about the good old underground days.

And will complain even more when their clubs become more crowded with the newcommers who were not cool enough to "get it" when they did.

and Pod hit it on the head.. we have a bunch of closed minded idiots here for the most part.

for example..

I was in Spain for the first time last month and happened to meet a few girls from Orlando. I asked them how they liked Spain. They said they loved it it was so much fun, different etc...

I then mentioned I was from Miami and it is pretty cool for nightlife etc...

They told me "We don't like it there, its so different and everyone only speaks spanish" (Remember we were in Spain!)

I looked around and say "But you love it here?"

They go "Yeah its great!" and didn't even get it.

[pod]

Hahah good tale, bomb. Lotta people don't like Miami since they want/expect it to be 'like the rest of the US'. Spain 'has an excuse' in their mind.

On a sidebar, I've found the people that bitch about Miami the most are either underage, or just don't know how to work the system down here.

[digital7]

Power 96 and the power dj's says it all. slammin felix, the two clowns they have in the morning or at night? and all the other clowns they have is a joke, and to think they had a prerecorded John Digweed mix when chances are they don't even know who the fuk he is. the radio down here is horrendous to say the least and is showing no signs of progress. quite sad really, for a city with so much potential, that seems to be stuck in the stone age. as far as dance becoming mainstream in the US, eventually, but not anytime within the next billion years ....

[pod]

Radio is never going to reflect our tastes..it's unfortunate that Power 96 has so much power.

[Treepwood]

Gotta love Good old trendy Power 96. Well i don't have all that much experience in the club scene or in the music scene i usually go by i hear a certain mix that i like and then i search for the Artist and get the as much music as i can find. For the first time cause of Loraine i've been really into music. Its unbelievebla how good some of these djs actually are(and i thought PvD was awesome). Thanks to her i've heard of Danny Howells and Lee Burridge which i think are awesome. I wish more people here had that great taste. Something that pisses me off is the fact that we had Ultra and it had a pretty crappy turn out considereing the talent we had. Something that pissed me off also about it was that some people where there and they only knew 1 or 2 djs

and those being Dj scribble and Eddie Mix which i was awe struck when i heard that. I felt like telling them that they didnt' belong there at all and they don't deserve to be in that place. Well i agree that most people here in miami only know the crap power 96 feeds them, and to say the truth they are being fed CRAP!. Thank good for the people here in CP and my other online buddies that like Dance music as much or more than i do for all their good influences.

[patrickl]

Originally posted by shroomy

Its funny... the same people who wonder why electronic music doesn't go mainstream are the same people who reminisce about the good old underground days.

And will complain even more when their clubs become more crowded with the newcommers who were not cool enough to "get it" when they did.

I honestly think I would like it better if more people had a clue. If clubs become crowded with more people who are really into it, that's good right? Oh well, it's not gonna happen. As Pod said, it's just a fad except in small pockets of the major cities. I must admit, there is some appeal to liking music that comparatively few others like, but at the same time, I do know that I really want to share some of the music I listen to that not as many people know about.........with others who have been exposed to nothing beyond what radio and MTV feeds them. I'm sure a lot of you guys are the same way. I'm not just talking about dance music here, either - I'm including anything that doesn't get played on radio much if at all.

[phrankadelic]

Originally posted by digital7

Power 96 and the power dj's says it all. slammin felix, the two clowns they have in the morning or at night? and all the other clowns they have is a joke, and to think they had a prerecorded John Digweed mix when chances are they don't even know who the fuk he is. the radio down here is horrendous to say the least and is showing no signs of progress. quite sad really, for a city with so much potential, that seems to be stuck in the stone age. as far as dance becoming mainstream in the US, eventually, but not anytime within the next billion years ....

it seems like after stryke and mary left mary's house, the local radio went to shit! i mean every friday we had both luis diaz', stryke, plus a bunch of other dj's comin in on a weekly basis. i need to get my own radio show damnit!

[patrickl]

Originally posted by digital7

to think they had a prerecorded John Digweed mix when chances are they don't even know who the fuk he is. the radio down here is horrendous to say the least and is showing no signs of progress. quite sad really, for a city with so much potential, that seems to be stuck in the stone age. as far as dance becoming mainstream in the US, eventually, but not anytime within the next billion years ....

yeah, I remember I was all excited about hearing Digweed on Power 96. LOL I just wonder where that mix was recorded? Was that his Ultra set? Whatever it was, I have it on tape, and I like it........I like it a lot better than his Global Underground - LA mix......but anyway it was funny that they were trying to pass it off as a "live in the power 96 studio" mix. If you listen to the interview, at the end the guy says "john you are welcome to come in any time"

You know what I just thought of........I also think that the draconian FCC rules governing radio are also partly to blame for the utter shit state of radio we have in this country. Radio is basically a tightly-knit oligopoly, run by people who do not care about music in the slightest. There are so many barriers to entry in the radio business, you are NEVER going to get any real innovation from it. I really wish that I had unlimited funds; I would LOVE to buy out a radio station (if that was possible) and run it myself. I'd blanket the city with advertising, my campaign against all the established radio stations would be brutal. I really think that if some rogue station came along and actually tried giving listeners a bit of credit, it would be a great success. Of course, this won't happen. Maybe 95% of the radio listeners in the US don't deserve any credit, I dunno.

I know we have WVUM and FIU's station, and they do give listeners a true alternative, but I just find their programming to be so terribly uneven. It's like listening to a CMJ New Music Monthly (which I subscribe to) sampler CD, but not being able to skip tracks you can't stand......of which there are usually many. And of course there are those whacked out reggae/hip-hop/junkanoo/Zydeco/Christian rap/death metal hybrid shows that VUM airs that appeal to about 0.000000000000001% of the audience.

[x-t-c]

Originally posted by patrickl

yeah, I remember I was all excited about hearing Digweed on Power 96. LOL I just wonder where that mix was recorded? Was that his Ultra set? Whatever it was, I have it on tape, and I like it........I like it a lot better than his Global Underground - LA mix......but anyway it was funny that they were trying to pass it off as a "live in the power 96 studio" mix. If you listen to the interview, at the end the guy says "john you are welcome to come in any time"

____________________________________________________

now while i agree that power 96 is a shit station for the most part, and there cheesy booty bass dj's are horrible, for the past 2 years they have been putting on a 2 hr show called the late nite laboratory on sunday mornings 2-4 a.m. in which during the last few months they have been featuring dj's from the likes of : john digweed, timo maas, eddie baez, luis diaz, edgar v, george acosta, david waxman, nick warren, etc...

most of these mixes are prerecorded at the studio due to the fact that these dj's are in town playing at certain clubs or have a residency down here, but they are mixed and recorded at the power 96 studio....

unfortunatley the show is on the worse possible station, but that shouldnt be any reason to not listen to it.....

i personally know the producer of the show (george alvarado), and he tells me that he wishes the station was more receptive to our music, but theres no way in hell that will happen with kid curry and dj laz running things over there....

peace...

p.s...george alvarado actually opened for nick warren @ space while edgar was at ibiza...

[patrickl]

Originally posted by x-t-c

Originally posted by patrickl

they have been putting on a 2 hr show called the late nite laboratory on sunday mornings 2-4 a.m. in which during the last few months they have been featuring dj's from the likes of : john digweed, timo maas, eddie baez, luis diaz, edgar v, george acosta, david waxman, etc...

most of these mixes are prerecorded at the studio due to the fact that these dj's are in town playing at certain clubs or have a residency down here...now whether there live in the studio or they where there a couple hours earlier isnt that big a deal...

unfortunatley the show is on the worse possible station, but that shouldnt be any reason to not listen to it...

I know. I listen to it and mostly enjoy it. It's good to hear *something* a little outside the norm going on, even if it is at 2-4AM. I wish some of that would seep into their everyday programming. But that won't happen, they are too committed to their core audience of Kendall & Hialeah wanna-be thugs......errr I mean teenagers.

[dieg0]

I ran into this post at urbanrave.com...

Thought it was interesting and it went along w/ this thread, it's kind of long but interesting nevertheless. Check it...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone!! This email is a little long. But, I think you will

enjoy it. It is a different perspective about the anti-rave

movement...

It is an opinion I have dirived through my experience with both the rock and electronic industry.

I am anxious to hear what you think about it. So, if you dont have

the time, please save it and read it little by little. I think you

will all find it insightful.

Thanks!

---

In the past thirty years, fashions, fads and trends have stopped

being caused by "chance" or "luck". Instead, industries have learned to predict trends and create them with little to no risk to their investment. (Perhaps, some of you had to read the book 'Megatrends' in highschool?)

So, as a result, what we have is a society that is force-fed what

is "popular". For example, MTV plays a show six times a week, with marathons on the weekend, knowing that -- with no alternatives -- the show will become popular. Occaisionally, a fresh and new idea appears, but more often than not, we are only offered material with as much depth as a puddle.

The point is, entertainment industries invest massive amounts of

money into their projects and they DO NOT want to see them fail.

This is the same with music.

SFX, Clear Channel and Infiniti Broadcasting are three companies that are intertwined. What they have developed is a virtual monopoly in the music industry ((something that I believe Congress will eventually look into for violation of anti-trust laws)). With this monopoly, they have a stranglehold on the music you hear on the radio and the music that you hear at concerts, etc.

Here is how they are set up... SFX owns management companies, booking agencies, radio stations and concert venues. So, they often hire a band that they manage, through a booking agency they own to perform for a festival of a radio station they control at a venue they own.

Do you get it??

When a competing concert promoter decides he will have Band X perform at the Miami Arena, he will quickly find that he often cannot book the band, and if he does he often cannot book the venue, and if he does, he often cannot obtain the appropriate radio ads that are needed to fill the seats.

In the end, the promoter gives up and the only concerts or live music you ever see throughout the year are all "SFX presents... so and so" or Zeta's "Nutcracker Ball", "Zetafest", "Bonsai

Festival", "Halloweenie Roast", etc.

Zeta, of course is owned by Clear Channel. So is Y-100, KISS 99.9, Coast, Light FM, Planet Radio, Big 106, 103.5 FM, etc.

This should not be suprising to any of you because the rave culture is a "COUNTER-CULTURE", spawned by the stagnation that this sort of monopoly over art has caused:

As a result of mainstream music being force-fed to us for years, a

new culture appeared. Instead of hearing the newest song on the radio, it was heard at raves or over the Internet. New artists were discovered by word of mouth.

Without the use of radio ads to advertise, raves were advertised from person-to-person and by the use of flyers, handed out by street promoters. In fact, rave flyers became a new art form!!! They were created by talented individuals on their home computers -- not big ad agencies -- and collected by many who appreciated the style.

Artists who could not break into the monolithic music industry, or

obtain the equivalent of the Holy Grail -- a record deal -- found

themselves having to create their own music at home on their

computers. They created their own labels and distributed their music themselves at parties.

This new music was unique... not like the mainstream pop being played in nightclubs around the world. There was no "conventional" place to hear this new music. So, tents were erected; warehouses were converted; house parties were formed!!!

The people came and the music was good...

Sure, this new culture had its drug too!! Ecstacy. However, this is

not the first time a drug has gone hand-in-hand with music. There

are other examples... Pot to Protest Rock; LSD to Psychadelia;

Cocaine to Disco; Beer to Country music, etc.

Many people used the drug and attended raves where they heard this new music among a communal group of people tired of living the stereotypes that mass media had labeled them with. Movies, magazines, news reports, television shows all depicted the youth as violent, uneducated and unaccepting of each other.

At "raves", these stereotypes were cast aside. These people were not violent. They were in school, and many in college. They were accepting of anyone.

Then, the greatest thing happened. The drugs wore off... and they still felt the same!!!

As with rock, disco, or country; just because a drug is associated

with these types of music, it does not mean that the only way to

dirive pleasure or value from it is by being high!!!

---

I recently had a meeting with a Cl**r Ch**nel owned radio station who is trying to break into the electronic music arena, and wanted my help. They presented themselves as this monsterous conglomerate who could provide me with anything I needed to put on electronic music events. They had venues at my disposal, they could give me limitless radio ads, they would re-format their station to play electronic music.

Here's what happened...

The venues they had were like Mars Amphitheater... they were big and beautiful, but seated. Could you imagine dancing in the middle of rows of seats? Not likely.

The radio is not where "raves" are advertised. Street promoters are needed. Flyers have to be printed. No help again.

They ordered all the "dance, techo and electronic music" to be sent to the station via the Internet where they have "any song at their fingertips within minutes". They were sent entire catalogs of Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears and Ricky Martin. Why?? Because they only do business with the major labels!!! Electronic music is almost entirely independent labels!!!

These guys didn't even understand that it is not enough to have the songs, but there must be a DJ with talent to play the songs, and take the listener on a "journey."

My point is, these soulless, money-machines cannot get their meat- hooks into this culture. In the beginning this wasn't a concern. But, now that every car commercial, video game and movie is being scored with techno music, it has become a huge profit loss. Because, with the exception of Britney Spears selling Pepsi, techno artists are making all the money in music liscencing, not the established music conglomorates.

So, the assault on the scene begins...

How do corporate giants wrestle the control back from independant music labels? From techno artists who are not interested in major record deals because they make more money and have more creative control doing everything themselves? From consumers who have grown tired of contrived pop groups that have been contrived, and built to match a formula that has been tries and true (i.e., Menudo = New Kids on the Block = N-Sync = Backstreet Boys = O-Town = etc.)?

Well, they attack the scene.

They say, through the media (news programs, films like "Kids", etc), that a rave is nothing more than a drug-crazed orgy!!! Ecstacy is labelled the "sex drug".

Parents hear this and demand action by the politicians. Politicians,

who have little to no care about young voters ((because in their

minds, the youth dont vote anyways)), immediately call for new

legislation in order to shut down these "drug dens" and protect

the "kids" from this new, "seductive" drug culture.

Flash forward to the near future: So many laws have been passed declaring dancing illegal and calling glow-sticks and water drug paraphenalia!!

New, "safe" venues will be created so that people can still have

their music, but lawmakers, and parents can be assured that their children will not be taking drugs -- ONLY DRINKING!!

Ohhhh, and these "safe" havens for restricted dance will be in some of the most beautiful nightclubs ever seen. Clubs that would cost millions of dollars to build and design. Clubs that can only be created by business giants like SFX and Sony. Why, theme parks like Universal Studios (A Sony Corporation) will build them.

These super clubs will only play the music they KNOW the people

like. And, to insure this, they will provide the DJs with "set

lists." And, hell, why not add to the list some new DJs that their

sister companies have signed deals with. Might as well spend the

extra money to get them new videos for MTV. But, videos cost money. So, to insure that the investment is not lost, they will fill the airwaves with these songs by including them in the play lists of the thousands of radio stations their subsidiary company, Clear Channel, owns!!! That way, they can guaruntee the songs will be recognized by the crowds at the super clubs....

Then, somewhere... perhaps in South America or Europe... a new music will be created...

Music that you can't hear anywhere else.

[georgeacasta2]

Great freakin article dieg0

[digital7]

Originally posted by x-t-c

for the past 2 years they have been putting on a 2 hr show called the late nite laboratory on sunday mornings 2-4 a.m.

yeah, the show is very good, but like you said, it's on a crappy radio station. In addition, the time slot is horrible. It assure's it's self to little or no exposure mainstream.