Straighten Out the Gay issue for Jaysea and DimaNYC

[bastardino]

Let me just straighten out this issue. I don't have too much against fags. Unless they are coming on to me. However, what I do know is that a child shouldn't be subjected to an upbringing by Gay parents. From the beginning of mankind kids had Mothers and Fathers. That's exactly the two genders it takes to conceve a child. God didn't intend for two males or femals to raise kids. Especially if they are lovers. You just know that kid isn't going to turn out right. Not to say he'll turn out Gay but he'll definately have major issues. Also the kid will be definately subjected to endless wedges and simular acts of violence against him throughout his early school years. No kid should be subjected to that. And don't even get me started on the whole gay issue. I don't think anyone turns gay, obviously people are born Gay. However, Dr Laura was right, it is a biological error. And there is nothing wrong with it being what it is. There are people born handicapp, people are born smarter than others this is one of those things. God never intended for men to be with men and vice versa, hence there would be no procriation. The world is based on opposites genders uniting. Look at the animal kingdom. So there is nothing wrong when they say you are a biological error because it is nothing to ashamed off. Just my 2 cents.

[sd]

bastardino, bringin' us some Thursday morning drama.

this should keep me entertained until about 11:00, nicely done.

[silente]

Originally posted by sd

bastardino, bringin' us some Thursday morning drama.

this should keep me entertained until about 11:00, nicely done.

<laughs> Excellent. Might as well get it started.....

First off, the only reason the children of gay parents would be terrorized in schools is becuase of smallminded idiots like you who can't conceive of the possibility of anything but "Leave it to Beaver." Furthermore, there have been documented cases of homosexuality in dozens of species throughout the animal kingdom, so your notion that it's some backwards human thing is just plain wrong. And the fact that you agree with Dr. Laura on ANYTHING is just appalling...the woman has the mind of a goat.

[LavenderMenace]

You are so ignorant. This post is ridiculous on so many levels, i don't even know where to start.

First of all, preliminary research shows that children raised by same sex couples are actually more well-adjusted, and emotionally healthy than you average kid from a hetero couple.

As far as the problems the child may face in school, ridicule and such, this is what happens to anyone in a minority. Think about the first african american kids who went to newly desegregated schools. Should their parents have kept them in Black-only schools to avoid being subject to others prejudice?

Second, just because you need sperm and an ovary to produce a child doesn't mean that the providers of those components should necessarily be the one's to raise it. Similarly, there's no reason that the necissity of male/female sexual coupling for the purpose of procreation, means that males and females must couple for life/love. I refer you to Adrienne Rich's Compulsory Heterosexualty.

why don't you try educating yourself, homophobe

[bastardino]

you're a moron. Permilimnary research my ass. How can the kid be possibly more adjusted having 2 fathers that fuck each other up the ass on nightly basis? Do you even have any fucking clue what you are saying. I'd like to see how adjust you would be having 2 dykes for a mom. Issues for life this is called. Oh and by the way, this waaaaay different from Racial barrier when first african kids started going to white schools. Do not even compare the two. Being Gay IS not normal. Being raised by gay parents is absurd.

[silente]

<laughs> Bastardino, I don't think you'll find a kid anywhere that's comfortable with the idea of his parents fucking, gay or not.

[LavenderMenace]

Originally posted by bastardino

you're a moron. Permilimnary research my ass. How can the kid be possibly more adjusted having 2 fathers that fuck each other up the ass on nightly basis? Do you even have any fucking clue what you are saying. I'd like to see how adjust you would be having 2 dykes for a mom. Issues for life this is called. Oh and by the way, this waaaaay different from Racial barrier when first african kids started going to white schools. Do not even compare the two. Being Gay IS not normal. Being raised by gay parents is absurd.

Just live the rest of your life like this, with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears. If you want to ingore research and history go right ahead, but don't call me a moron for being educated on the subject.

Gay opression is just like any other form of opression. You proved it with the above statement. Being gay isn't normal??? So I guess you're god now?

Oh and by the way, I would have LOVED to have been raised by two DYKES!

[DimaNYC]

Originally posted by lavendermenace

First of all, preliminary research shows that children raised by same sex couples are actually more well-adjusted, and emotionally healthy than you average kid from a hetero couple.

lavendermenace, you are kidding, correct? That is just so ridiculous. Please tell me where I can look at the results of that preliminary research. And who conducted it. And what was it based on. And who were the subjects and the duration of that research. Thank you in advance.

Please don't insult us, straight people, by saying what you've said.

[LavenderMenace]

Here's a start.

Psychologists sympathetic to gay rights have long asserted that children raised by same-sex parents are no different from other children. But two professors are now challenging that premise in a study that both pleases and worries gay activists.

The new study by two University of Southern California sociologists says children with lesbian or gay parents show more empathy for social diversity, are less confined by gender stereotypes and are probably more likely to explore homosexual activity themselves.

"We say there are some differences, and that people have shied away from acknowledging them for fear that this would inflame homophobia,'' said

Judith Stacey, who co-authored the report with Timothy Biblarz. Some gays worry that the report, in the latest issue of the American Sociological Review, will provide ammunition for opponents of adoption and foster-parenting by homosexuals.

However, leaders of national groups supporting gay families welcomed the article.

"I'm thrilled that they're tackling these issues,'' said Aimee Gelnaw, executive director of the Family Pride Coalition, who is raising a 16-year-old son and 5-year-old daughter with her lesbian partner in Oak Park, Ill.

"Of course our kids are going to be different,'' Gelnaw said. "They're growing up in a different social context.''

Kate Kendall, head of the San Francisco-based National Center for Lesbian Rights, also is raising two children with her partner. "There's only one response to a study that children raised by lesbian and gay parents may be somewhat more likely to reject notions of rigid sexual orientation -- that response has to be elation,'' Kendall said.

She urged lesbians and gays to overcome any uneasiness they might have about the report.

"If in fact our kids are somewhat more likely to identify as lesbian and gay -- if we're ashamed of that outcome, it means we're ashamed of ourselves,'' Kendall said.

Stacey and Biblarz did not conduct new research of their own; they re-evaluated 21 psychological studies conducted between 1981 and 1998.

The thrust of those studies was that children raised by same-sex parents were no different from those reared by heterosexual parents.

"Because anti-gay scholars seek evidence of harm, sympathetic researchers defensively stress its absence,'' Stacey and Biblarz wrote. Such researchers "tread gingerly around the terrain of differences.''

In particular, researchers concluded there was no difference in sexual orientation or gender behavior, Stacey said in a telephone interview.

"We say that doesn't appear to be true,'' she said. "It's time to stop worrying about that and look at it with eyes wide open.''

Stacey and Biblarz didn't try to quantify their findings with statistical projections, saying simply that children with same-sex parents "seem to grow up to be more open to homeoerotic relations.'' They recommended further research.

Stacey said nothing in their work justifies discrimination against gay families, or alters her conviction that gays and lesbians can be excellent parents raising well-adjusted children. She worried, however, that some family court judges might use the findings to reinforce decisions against gay parenting.

"In a homophobic world, anti-gay forces deploy such results to deny parents custody of their own children,'' she and Biblarz wrote.

A family-law expert who is skeptical of gay parenting, Lynn Wardle of Brigham Young University's law school, said he was not surprised that Stacey and Biblarz found shortcomings in earlier research.

"This is a flashing yellow light that says before you legalize gay adoptions, you better think clearly,'' he said. "The social science doesn't support those kind of radical reforms.''

Amy Desai, a policy analyst with the conservative group Focus on the Family, said the new report is "alarming'' in its suggestions that children of gay parents might be more open to homosexual activity."Kids do best when they have a married mother and a married father,'' she said.

Felicia Park-Rogers, whose parents came out as lesbian and gay when she was 3, is executive director of COLAGE (Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere). She agreed with Stacey that the vast majority of children with same-sex parents turn out to be heterosexual.

"The stereotype is that gay parents make their children gay, and want them to be gay,'' she said. "The reality is that gay parents allow being gay to be an option. They know there are still difficulties about it.''

Gelnaw said her son, Zach, who is heterosexual, "is the kind of guy girls want to be friends with. He's incredibly empathetic. He doesn't have to put on that macho act.''

Zach didn't dispute his mother's words, but he had some advice for the experts and ideologues.

"The problem I have is with generalizations,'' he said. "All kids are different.''

[silente]

<laughs> I love that people are taking this seriously! This is great! Keep it comin

[sd]

you really are fucking lacking in the knowledge department.

there have been plenty of studies on children raised by same sex couples. during the 80's medical research pointed towards the belief that children of these same sex couples were in no way shape or form different from children of opposite sex couples, this is a well accepted opinion in the medical community. to further your education, about 2 weeks ago there was an article in the New York Times on the children of same sex couples, the article based on a study conducted by 2 psychologists over the the last decade+ indicates that children of same sex couples are actually more well adjusted, have a better understanding of their sexuality and their environment. they are stronger willed, have more well rounded personalities and are better able to deal with adversity than the children of opposite sex couples. this study has since been published in a prominent medical journal and i'm sure you could find it on the internet.

i don't know what community/family/environment caused you to have such hateful and untolerant feelings. it would probably benefit you tremendously to get out, see the world you live in, read, get educated, meet some new people outside of your sphere of ignorance, not to mention you would probably feel better about your life. and yes DimaNYC, i am straight.

[sd]

you beat me to it

[LavenderMenace]

here you go. Lets see if you even bother to read it.

http://www.asanet.org/pubs/stacey.pdf

[wackydream]

Originally posted by bastardino

you're a moron. Permilimnary research my ass. How can the kid be possibly more adjusted having 2 fathers that fuck each other up the ass on nightly basis? Do you even have any fucking clue what you are saying. I'd like to see how adjust you would be having 2 dykes for a mom. Issues for life this is called. Being Gay IS not normal. Being raised by gay parents is absurd.

oooh....i cant believe i read all of that!

guys, are we living in the middle ages? have you been hiding under a rock for the last ten years? and dr. laura is the biggest homophobe, i believe she got kicked off the radio for the crap she's been saying.

if being raised by 2 men or 2 women is a negative thing, then how about being raised by a single parent? you obviously have a mother or father figure missing there, too, but noone is saying that single parents shouldnt be allowed to raise children...it doesnt matter whether the parents are hetero or gay, what matters is that they are loving parents, who really care for their child - and do not tell me that there is some kind of research that supports the statement that gay parents are more likely to abuse their kids! womanizing drunken rednecks are, they are straight, too...i dont see many gay people parading around condemning the straight lifestyle, why are you taking it upon yourself to condemn homosexuality as "wrong"? the people who use the bible blindly as reference for what is right and wrong are the same people who are against abortions in order to save the life of the mother or when a child will be born with known severe physical complications, the same people who are against stem cell research, which may cure parkinson's. yeah, hooray cancer! god obviously wanted you to get sick and die...god gave you a freaking brain and free will so that you would think for yourself, so use it! the only reason why being raised by a gay couple may be traumatic for a child is because while at home he is being told that its ok for people to come in all shapes and behaviors, outside homophobs like yourself are telling him that its wrong to be open-minded. open your eyes and look around - ten percent of the world population is gay. if one of your ten friends isnt, its you...

[bigpoppanils]

what do you mean "god didnt intend two males or two females to raise kids"? as far as the bible goes it has many contradictions, and it is not a complete work. i also dont see anything in the 10 commandments nor the sermon on the mount on homosexuality and how children should be raised.

[DimaNYC]

lavendermenace, it wasn't clear to me what that article was supposed to prove. It had mixed statements. In any case I will not discuss this here any further as there are clearly strong opinions which I strongly disagree with, especially considering I already discussed this thoroughly in an other thread. You're welcome to post there.

sd, spare me oh wise one. Since when did you begin to assess ones intelligence and knowledge based on their opinions? Ever since you were introduced to those opinions that differed from yours? Do not make such childish conclusions. I give you more credit than that.

For every doctor that supports raising children in a family with same sex parents there are 100 that do not.

If that's the article that was in New York Times, it is very clear why it was printed, if not for anything but this quote "probably more likely to explore homosexual activity themselves." Believe me, publishers at NY Times aren't siding with the idea of raising kids in the household with same sex parents. I believe the reason for that article in NY Times was to lobby against same sex parents ability to adopt children. And this quote confirms my beliefs "Some gays worry that the report, in the latest issue of the American Sociological Review, will provide ammunition for opponents of adoption and foster-parenting by homosexuals. "

And since I won't bother discussing this here further, let me remind you that these are my views, popular views, that majority agree with. Take it as it is.

[wackydream]

Originally posted by DimaNYC

For every doctor that supports raising children in a family with same sex parents there are 100 that do not.

FIND ME PROOF. I WANT TO SEE WHERE THESE NUMBERS ARE COMING FROM. THANKS IN ADVANCE

[LavenderMenace]

If you go to the link I posted, you'll find the actual study that the NY Times article was based on.

And yes the article was presenting BOTH sides of the arguement.

Objectivity, ever heard of it?

[sd]

most opinions such as the ones that you have displayed, are ones associated w/ closed mindedness. the same kind of closedmindness that is the root of racial, ethnic or religious prejudice, or to involve a gender, the reason there was a need for a feminist movement that began in the early 20th century and still goes on today. DimaNYC your last post was quite well written, which i admit caught me by surprise. i would have a much easier time accepting your views if their was some sort of foundation for them, though i have never read any. however though you are undoubedly intelligent, your bias and the way apparently understood the last quote puzzles me.

"Some gays worry that the report, in the latest issue of the American Sociological Review, will provide ammunition for opponents of adoption and foster-parenting by homosexuals."

the reason that gays are concerned, is because there is a differentiation between the two groups (children of same sex couples and children of opposite sex couples) even though it clearly shows that the children (of same sex couple) are often better adjusted to society and its challenges. the concern stems from fear that individuals and groups will use this information out of context to prevent gays and lesbians from being allowed to raise children. similarly to the way you misunderstood and took the quote out of context, the concern is that others will as well. though seemingly educated you for some reason seem to lack the ability to think analytically and possibly independantly, or you may have chosen not to read the entire article and haphazardly saw this one quote and used it, thinking it would work to your benefit. the possibility of most concern however, is that you read the entire article, you understood it and decided to deny and simply not believe what it said.

[wackydream]

lavendermenace, if by chance you have that quote mapped someplace, i'd really appreciate you pointing it out to me. the article is 25 pages long - you wanna make it a little easier? or else i might think you are bsing and its not really there...

[DimaNYC]

sd, you got me. I couldn't resist not posting here.

Let me clear up a few things. All I was trying to get across is that publishers at NY Times are not for the rights of same sex parents or I should rather say for their right to adopt children. That is the sole reason for which I printed those quotes out of context like that.

And also "the last quote (that) puzzles...", I should have put emphasis on the latter part of that statement. "will provide ammunition for opponents of adoption and foster-parenting by homosexuals." Again, this is only to discredit those who claim, or even slightly imply that NY Times advocates same sex parents ability to adopt. Considering that article was brought to my attention as some sort of proof.

Lastly, when you said, "i would have a much easier time accepting your views if their was some sort of foundation for them." Okay. Let me make it easier for you. I believe that it is a disorder, being gay, not to discount that it can not be a learned behavior. From that I base my views and opinions.

Oh I almost forgot. One more thing. You said, "most opinions such as the ones that you have displayed, are ones associated w/ closed mindedness." Have you ever thought that it isn't close mindedness. As I already stated previously. I'm very aware of my surroundings. And I base my views because I'm aware of all the facts.

[LavenderMenace]

Originally posted by wackydream

lavendermenace, if by chance you have that quote mapped someplace, i'd really appreciate you pointing it out to me. the article is 25 pages long - you wanna make it a little easier? or else i might think you are bsing and its not really there...

What quote?

[sd]

so i ask you this- if it were a "disorder", does this disorder prevent them from being, loving and caring parents. what other disorders are going to be banned from parenting, MS, arthritis. in the 1st thread that i believe you started you said that you had gay/lesbian friends (my memory does fail), because they suffer from this disorder, can they not be good, caring friends, or is it only their parenting skills that are inhibited.

i suppose my next question is this- do you believe that they would not be good parents because they are gay/lesbian, or is it because of the experiences that their children would be subjected to?

in regards to the NY Times article, I neither said that it was written in support or opposition of my argument. what i did say was that, there were opinions and stories of people in that article that supported my argument. i would argue that if anything it was written objectively, following the pattern most NY Times articles do, attempting to showcase both sides in an objective manner.

[wackydream]

Originally posted by lavendermenace

What quote?

the 1 in 100 doctors quote, the one you said is in the link

[DimaNYC]

Alright guys, it's been fun debating with you. I've said all there is to say on this subject. All your questions on this topic are answered in my previous posts. I can not continue repeating my self.

Thank you everyone.