Does MAINSTREAM = A BAD thing? (selling out or expanding?) POLL

[mugwump]

Well I wont go through my Old clubber Nostalgia bullshit and tell you all about how I remember Trance before there where any Velvet ropes or Club lists to see PVD...nor will I get all sappy about when PLUR rulled outlawed Dance floors and Raves welcomed EVERYONE regardless of "Dress Codes"..

Times Change..Everyone grows up but does that necessarily imply that EVOLVING means letting the mainstream dictate how or when a sound should be heard. Should your types of shoes keep you oustside from seeing a DJ that you first heard at Disco 2000 ior a NASA party years and years ago? Should you welcome the ongrowing destructive force of Irresponsible masses ODing..Dealing and the giant Velvet ropes that are spreading across the City..?

Message Boards dedicated to the sound and life style you use to love fighting..

Mayors closing down the paradise that was once a UTOPIAN land of Peace, Love Unity and Respect..

ARE THESE SIGHNS OF THE TIMES?

Does it Matter if Oakie costs $60 at the door and BT is mixing INSYNC?

Does it matter if you have to wear nut huggers and uncomfortable shoes in order to get on a dance floor an listen to your favorite DJ (Whom you've collected albums of from the start!?)

IS MAIN STREAM AN INEVITABLE CULTURAL PHENOMENON YOU SHOULD "JUST GO WITH"?

DOES COMERCIALISM AND MAINSTREAM=BAD TIMES?

What do you think?

[thehacker]

F the mainstream.

it's just beneath the radar where the most amazing sh!t happens!

[xkingchangox]

I do belive that the mainstream is part of an evolving culture.

In my opinion I think its the responsibility of the artist, dj anything to asure that they do not turn off their core audiance.Example Oakenfold should have known better then to play at a place like WORLD its owned by the WWF highly commercial of all things.A long time ago I read an interview of Robert Smith of THE CURE

he said that the CURE did not go to the mainstrem but the mainstream came to them.For this they have been able to survive over 20 something years and retain a high percent of their core audiance.When oakie played HAmmerstein ballroom last winter it was great he didnt piss anyone off and no one robbed for $75 like this past event.

[scottyskribz57]

I don't think that eventually going mainstream is something that can be stopped, I mean eventually everything will become mainstream, which is why producers are working there asses off the come out with better tracks everyday, just so they can keep it underground, but everytime some dj picks up that record, and plays it somewhere, more people learn and know the song, and then it gets passed around, then you start hearing it in more and more clubs, until eventually everyone is sick of hearing it, but by then there are already enough new songs that are already out,

So I guess everything eventually becomes mainstream, which doesn't necessairily make it bad, just played out.....

-Scotty-

[mugwump]

Originally posted by scottyskribz57

I don't think that eventually going mainstream is something that can be stopped, I mean eventually everything will become mainstream, which is why producers are working there asses off the come out with better tracks everyday, just so they can keep it underground, but everytime some dj picks up that record, and plays it somewhere, more people learn and know the song, and then it gets passed around, then you start hearing it in more and more clubs, until eventually everyone is sick of hearing it, but by then there are already enough new songs that are already out,

So I guess everything eventually becomes mainstream, which doesn't necessairily make it bad, just played out.....

-Scotty-

Long time no see brotha'

Good to hear your intelligent insights back on this board!

Miss alot of the old' peeps ya'know!

M

U

G

Z

[scottyskribz57]

I know, between work, and other shit around the house, I've had no time for the boards you know, but school is coming around real soon, so that means I'll be back alot more ...

-Scotty-

[mikelac]

Very interesting issue you brought up there...

My problem with mainstream is that it attracts all the wanna-be's. Electronic music is becoming more popular now in the US so everyone hears and learns about it, then many of them jump on the bandwagon. They roll because "that's what you're supposed to do in clubs" and most of them aren't even there for the music. The music is the single most important thing that should attract the people. Of course there are loyal people who go there for that reason, and I give them much credit. But I don't appreciate people who do it because it's the "new cool thing to do."

Another issue is playing trance music on radio stations like 92.7 WLIR. Any electronic music that is played on the radio has a big chance of becoming mainstream. Well, you can go both ways on this...For one, you can say that it's not a good idea to play this music on the air because it'll become played out and eventually be mainstream. But you can also say that it's a way for electronic music to reach more people. The outcome will be the same, but isn't that what producers like BT want? They want to bring electornic music to new listeners. Even though I may be split on certain issues, overall, I still don't like electronic music becoming mainstream. In my opinion, the music loses it's pureness. Unfortunatel, that's where certain guys like BT and Oakie are heading. And that's why electronic music is always evolving.

Mike

[ender84]

why is this all the fus about Oakie? I went to his concert.. a while back, it was only 35$ a few years ago, and I said it then and I will say it now. He is good, but nothing special, I like it a little bit edgy, and unique, for each individual DJ, Okanfold just doesnt have it. Yeah I agree he has some good songs, but thats about it. Id much prefer listening to crystal and JV. I dont really care how much his tixts are, since I dont think its worth it.

about mainstream.. def its a bad thing. Even though the bands get more money and reach a much larger targeted audience. The key word here, is LARGER AUDIENCE, which means that they probably wont be able to play what they want, they will probably get to play moreof what MOST people like. I dont know about you, but I think that the musci that MOST people listen to (which means mostly12-16 year olds, such as Nsync) suck majorly. Unfortunatelly mainstream is inevitale.

A good example is faithless. I listened to their songs, and got their albums a long time before I first heard em on 92.7 After half yaer I heard them on z100, and I know that if they have a concert right now (which they wont) theres gonna be a bunch of 12 yaer olds, that just came there b/c it was the cool thing to do. I think thats great for them, I dont really care, as long as it wont affect their music, which I think is very hard not slip into what the mainstream wants, which is basically pop music

[gothzane]

Its all about the masses.

And what moves them.

And how many people can stick their hands in

our pockets and take whatever they can along the way.

We have our underground scene.

But there is some suit out there smoken his cigar

trying to figure out how to box everything up

and sell it to us at a low low price of $99.99

sell us something we already own

sell us something we already are

and theres nothing we can do about it

except hope they use lube with they dick us over hard

then again some of us like it that way

like having our freedom riped from our hands

spitshined, thrown in a recyceled box

from another sold-out dream

then advertised like some cheap hoar

which is pillaged by thousands of screaming

teenie boopers who dont have a clue

to make their own intrests

have their own desire

just take what media dumps in their lap

"Hmm whats this? Okay ill take two because its on sale!"

ookies....ill stop ranting now

*Cackle*

"On Sale now! Dehydrated water! only $9.99...thats right folks

dehydrated water...alls you have to do is add...water!..wow!"

[jmuneton]

A very interesting question. Where can the line between mainstream and extremly innovative and refreshing sound be found. Do you remember the first time you jumped in the air to see your favourite dj at twilo spinning. PVD for me and then BT at Bowery ballroom. Those where electrifying times but are they any less talented now that there mainstream. Maybe it is only after a brief stint in MAINSTREAM histeria that people realize that they are sick the the scheit and begin a whole new way of expressing themselves musically. Even though some people might saw oh Oakie is way too mainstream for me. He still has inspired other djs in spinning completely innovative styles. Its very important to remember that in Middle school and high school was ok in being professional appreciators but now its time to bring something back. Something fresh and innovative. After a while this too will turn Mainstream but in conclusion this isn't necesarily bad its more like a recession in an economic cycle. A part of a cycle which is a must. Down with KTU and LIR radio stations for making our music mainstream but at the same time thanking them for letting other people know that there is something else out there. In closing mike and marc keep the groove flowing.

[kludgio]

i respect people who know, individually, what they like; i.e. they can define it

it annoys me to see people who claim the same enthusiasm for something they don't know

example:

Q: "why do you like this music?"

A1: "i think it is well produced because [reason]. this remix has the tribal/progessive/minimal/etc. qualities that i like"

A2: "i like it because it just grows on me for some reason" translation: i like it out of recognition, because the radio station plays it on the hour, every hour

[safiregem]

ok, i'm no expert dj or anything. i dont memorize every song title or producer or dj. i barely know peoples first names. but the truth is i love music. am i really shallow or is music really all about the way it makes you "feel". yeah, kids are stupid and get sucked into every new thing that they hear, but that's why theyre kids right, to really figure out what it is that is out there and what it is that they like. i'm not knocking any comments, they all make sense. $ moves people, its true for most of us. it sucks that dj's or anyone would change what they love to do for $ but thats their prob. people sell out all the time, whatever, i guess it pisses me off that someone would change the biggest part of them to make more money, but i cant change that. music is that thump in my heart that makes me want to live, dance, cry, scream, laugh whatever. i'm not gonna let any little kids or sellouts ruin that for me. there is always a place you can go to appreciate the some new no name shit that spins just as good. and thats usually when you have cheap, no bullshit, no $99.99 admission fee FUN.

[thehacker]

Originally posted by gothzane

Its all about the masses.

And what moves them.

And how many people can stick their hands in

our pockets and take whatever they can along the way.

We have our underground scene.

But there is some suit out there smoken his cigar

trying to figure out how to box everything up

and sell it to us at a low low price of $99.99

sell us something we already own

sell us something we already are

and theres nothing we can do about it

DEEP.

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by ender84

[

A good example is faithless. I listened to their songs, and got their albums a long time before I first heard em on 92.7 After half yaer I heard them on z100, and I know that if they have a concert right now (which they wont) theres gonna be a bunch of 12 yaer olds, that just came there b/c it was the cool thing to do. I think thats great for them, I dont really care, as long as it wont affect their music, which I think is very hard not slip into what the mainstream wants, which is basically pop music

what i find odd about faithless is that on every album there is a guitar-based pop song (dont leave, hour of need, evergreen) that i always fear will become popular

to my suprise the mainstream songs they create dont get any airplay (which is a good thing)

i am laso happy that the we come 1 video didnt get any play in the us. and you are right.. faithless refuses to tour in the united states

[saigray]

This is always on of the toughest questions for fans of a scene, and is especially tricky when one's scene supposedly involves some ideals such as respect, acceptance, love...being a Deadhead, I struggled to deal with the eventual influx of stoned lacross boys and sorority girls in tie-died halter-tops to what was once a really genuine scene. I don't know if this scene has ever had that sort of integrity, because I was not part of it when it did. I have no illusions that I am part of the underground- this is something that I've found, that I enjoy immensely, that I hope to continue to enjoy for a long time- but it is not something I own, or feel I have special rights to. For me, it has been about the music, the people and the dancing and I believe anyone who comes to it in that spirit at any point in its popularity curve should be welcomed with all the PLUR the veterans were showed when they found the scene. Why is everyone so down on kids- I'm proud that I found the Dead when I was 12 andit would have been sad if the old fans had felt there scene was ruined by my early enthusiasm. I'm proud that my 13 brother is listening to Dieselboy instead of Mandy Moore! Why should I want him to be musically ignorant so I can feel superior with the underground knowledge. Well this is geting a little long but there are a few things we should also remember- 1)any semblance of electronica being underground is gone in the UK and most of Europe, yet there is still an underground and there is still fun to be had, so mainstreaming doesn't need to mean death. 2) There will always be stuff that will remain underground because it is trully too weird for mainstream consumption, so if you're really concerned listen to avant-garde electronica and you'll be safe. 3) Don't forget the dangers of being too concerned with "the underground" The effect can be the same limits as trend following: ie if I only listen to what others don't then I'm still allowing others to control my tastes, and am a mindless twit in my complete oppostion to the masses. PPl trying to prove their uniqueness can be very boring as well.

[mugwump]

All very intelligent and valid points..

But what do you think about Creamfields being cancelled as well as Mekka and Square Pusher..

Has shit gotten mainstream only in CERTAIN areas..?(Trance, House)

Bet you most of the roid heads dancing at Exit and SF have never heard of half of the line up at Creamfields..

or the Glam queens and Euro suaves behind Velvet Rope VIP clubs couldn't give a damn about shit like Square Pusher..

They won't let kids with glowsticks into some clubs but they wont support the "underground"...(?)

And what pisses me off even more is that a MAJORITY IS supporting illitist fucks that run this city with Comps and lists.

Big name DJs playing at places that issolate their core devoted audiences...

And people going along with Dress codes!

I SAY FUCK ALL THAT!

Make a statement NY.

Show up at every club with shorts and Addidas and refuse to give more than you should to get to listen to your fav DJ/Artist!

Who the fuck do these people think started this muthafucking scene?

YUPPIES?

There's room for ALL types on dancefloors..Don't issolate those that are not like you and claim it's EVOLUTION!

*KEEP HOPE ALIVE! (Chrystal Method: who by the way prefer to play small towns because of shit like this!)

[Codica3]

Yo I fucking HATE when shit goes mainstream! There are different types of music, and there are people that like different types of music. The mainstream shit is for the people that just can't make up their fucking minds about what they like, and they will listen to whatever the fuck they play on the radio. Even my one friend who doesn't even like club has made it a point that club music has definitely taking over as the genre of music this summer. He's right, everywhere you go you hear club beats, and the thing that sucks is that it's stuff from the club that is like 7 months old. i.e. "I Turn To You" - I fucking remember when that song BLEW UP and I'm seriously talking BLEW UP the entire club, everyone loved it, but then they started playing it on the radio INCESSANTLY, and now I can't even stand to hear it. That song, also like "Sandstorm" used to be like some of the best songs, but now fucking KTU and bullshit ruined it by playing the muthafucking song out, and making it something mainstream instead of something that belongs in the club with the people that love it so much. When I fucking heard "Derb" on the radio I wanted to punch a whole through the wall. Club music belongs in the club, and that's that.

[bastardino]

Calm down all you bastards. Let me straighten this shit out. Mugwump firstly needs to start using a spell check. He also needs to get a life. Yuppies and glam people are what makes NYC what it is. It's a glamorous city and it has always been. Over the top kinds of things. You should be grateful this scene is becoming mainstream. You should all be on your fucking knees. Let me drive this point across you. Every one of you favorite DJs would so called "Sell out" if the opportunity ever came by. You think you will never see PVD do a sound track for a movie? OH hahhahaa, you just wait and see. You dumb bastards. Still not getting any of it. Trying to fool yourselfs with this PLUR bullshit. This, just like everything else is all about money. Those shows were cancelled because of lack of funds. Not as mainstream as you though right. I mean seriously, if i wanted to hear repetitive music I would turn on my Nintendo Megaman game. That's the shit right there.

[gothzane]

This topic can branch off into many aspects...

but basicly I wonder about how to keep

something underground...

What does it mean to be underground?

The unknown the unrecognizable?

And in breaking those simple boundries

is that what makes something mainstream

can it be that simple.

"Somebody stop me!"

[thehacker]

Originally posted by saigray

For me, it has been about the music, the people and the dancing and I believe anyone who comes to it in that spirit at any point in its popularity curve should be welcomed with all the PLUR the veterans were showed when they found the scene. Why is everyone so down on kids... I'm proud that my 13 brother is listening to Dieselboy instead of Mandy Moore! Why should I want him to be musically ignorant so I can feel superior with the underground knowledge.... The effect can be the same limits as trend following: ie if I only listen to what others don't then I'm still allowing others to control my tastes, and am a mindless twit in my complete oppostion to the masses. PPl trying to prove their uniqueness can be very boring as well.

wow.

i mean... WOW.

such wisdom.

marry me, sai. seriously

(well okay not really [yet ],

but DAMN you dropped the science!!!)

[fossor]

Originally posted by codica3

Yo I fucking HATE when shit goes mainstream! There are different types of music, and there are people that like different types of music. The mainstream shit is for the people that just can't make up their fucking minds about what they like, and they will listen to whatever the fuck they play on the radio. Even my one friend who doesn't even like club has made it a point that club music has definitely taking over as the genre of music this summer. He's right, everywhere you go you hear club beats, and the thing that sucks is that it's stuff from the club that is like 7 months old. i.e. "I Turn To You" - I fucking remember when that song BLEW UP and I'm seriously talking BLEW UP the entire club, everyone loved it, but then they started playing it on the radio INCESSANTLY, and now I can't even stand to hear it. That song, also like "Sandstorm" used to be like some of the best songs, but now fucking KTU and bullshit ruined it by playing the muthafucking song out, and making it something mainstream instead of something that belongs in the club with the people that love it so much. When I fucking heard "Derb" on the radio I wanted to punch a whole through the wall. Club music belongs in the club, and that's that.

Or maybe mainstream music has always and will always evolve and thus will always be chasing down some form of alternative music. Rock and Roll was once underground too.

Just becuase it took them longer to find it and they will never be on the forefront of it doesn't make a persons appreciation for a music any cheaper.

[loch]

Originally posted by saigray

...this is something that I've found, that I enjoy immensely, that I hope to continue to enjoy for a long time- but it is not something I own, or feel I have special rights to. For me, it has been about the music, the people and the dancing and I believe anyone who comes to it in that spirit at any point in its popularity curve should be welcomed with all the PLUR the veterans were showed when they found the scene...

Ditto. I think all cultural phenomena (whether pop-culture or underground-culture) exists as a line, a continuum, if you will; people pop in & out of this continuum all the time, and at varying intervals and quantity. It will have peaks and troughs, such that thru time, it becomes a cycle that vacillates between mainstream and non-mainstream, and repeats.

How one becomes familiar or becomes involved with the scene is relative to when one is first exposed to it (whether one is 10 yrs old or 30 yrs old; whether one runs tangent to the line at the beginning or at the middle of the scene/movement). Point is, when they become involved is irrelevant. It is how and in what spirit they become involved is what needs to be embraced and welcomed.

It annoys the hell out of me when ppl claim elitist status just because they first became involved with the scene at 12 yrs old, way back when yadda yadda yadda, and then proceed to pontificate about the scene as if were their own & ridicule the genuinely interested newcomers about what little they know. Well, they can shove their pontificating bullshit up their ass.

[saigray]

Originally posted by thehacker

wow.

i mean... WOW.

such wisdom.

marry me, sai. seriously

(well okay not really [yet ],

but DAMN you dropped the science!!!)

Awww, thanks bro. And I just wanted to add one,slightly less gracious point. Anyone bitching about the "mainstreaming" of a song by Melanie C, AKA SPORTY SPICE (Cough**codiac**cough) needs to check themselves. Don't even enter a discussion of underground if you think this is the underground. Blowing up Exit before entering rotation on KTU is exactly what this song was manufactured to do. This doesn't mean you can't like it. Pop has it's guilty pleasures but don't make a fool of yourself. And don't be down on others for their ignorance when you should be begging for an education.

[jimk29]

[

ARE THESE SIGHNS OF THE TIMES?

Does it Matter if Oakie costs $60 at the door and BT is mixing INSYNC?

Does it matter if you have to wear nut huggers and uncomfortable shoes in order to get on a dance floor an listen to your favorite DJ (Whom you've collected albums of from the start!?)

[

What do you think?