cintron Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 this is almost comic.hey jon, you wanna grab a few beers, pile the boys in the truck and go out huntin' for ragheads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodi Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 "this is almost comic. hey jon, you wanna grab a few beers, pile the boys in the truck and go out huntin' for ragheads? "Its people like this guy that give humans a bad name....dude your ignorance preceds you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Originally posted by bodi "this is almost comic. hey jon, you wanna grab a few beers, pile the boys in the truck and go out huntin' for ragheads? "Its people like this guy that give humans a bad name....dude your ignorance preceds you... hehe, right on bro! Those kind of people make me wonder if natural selection is really working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igloo Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 This has got to be some of the best posting in a long, long time.....and some of the most demonstrative examples of stupdity and ignorance on this board yet...And to think I have been branded Pat Buchanan Jr..(Sassa, raver mania, bigpopnails)...lolBTW you three, and mssoprano, we have not brawled in quite some time....haven't heard much bile from you lately..was it because now that events have unfolded you realized how misguided and baseless you have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msoprano Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 Originally posted by igloo This has got to be some of the best posting in a long, long time.....and some of the most demonstrative examples of stupdity and ignorance on this board yet...And to think I have been branded Pat Buchanan Jr..(Sassa, raver mania, bigpopnails)...lolBTW you three, and mssoprano, we have not brawled in quite some time....haven't heard much bile from you lately..was it because now that events have unfolded you realized how misguided and baseless you have been bro why would u bring up drama....yes events have unfolded and no i am not in total support of everything that is going on....im not gonna bring up old shit but my position remains the same.....i know politics is an harsh issue espicially in times like this but i dont take this board personally and on threads like this i like to read everyones opinions....thats why i try to post threads like this when i can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 What is this I am reading? Russians don't hate America? Sorry, but that is complete bullshit. Maybe some don't,but I've met way too many to think that is true...There's a lot of anti-everything in Russia...they are racist against anyone who doesn't fit in...and I mean everyone. I think racism is even more rapid there than it is here in the US....but I do agree with how they will never align themselves with any Muslim countries...they're killing enough Muslims in their country already to prove that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassa Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Originally posted by igloo This has got to be some of the best posting in a long, long time.....and some of the most demonstrative examples of stupdity and ignorance on this board yet...And to think I have been branded Pat Buchanan Jr..(Sassa, raver mania, bigpopnails)...lolBTW you three, and mssoprano, we have not brawled in quite some time....haven't heard much bile from you lately..was it because now that events have unfolded you realized how misguided and baseless you have been I missed you too....NOT. I will never change my mind on things like this, especially when it concerns the politics of many....I could probably sit here and argue for hours about things with you..but I clearly don't see the point of it. You have your opinion, I have mine, let's just leave it at that please.P.S. I never thought you were Pat Buchanan...I just thought you were a dick period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStephen Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Originally posted by raver_mania Oh yeah, India supports terrorists? Dude, go back to school and learn some facts. India has been the victim of terrorist attacks (a lot linked to Al Queda) for years now.No, I'm not a hippie running around with flowers in my ass. I'm someone who is tolerant to all cultures (yes, for the most part also redneck inbreds as well), and not one to say Middle East/South Asia = terrorist. SO, get a clue... I already went to school while you were sitting around a camp fire dropping tabs and singing "cumbya". You wanna know what I learned hippie, I learned that the Indians and Pakistanis will never get this issue over Kashmir resolved. I also learned that Indians has made a considerable amount of attacks against Pakistan and Pakistani civilians.....whether they are labeled terrorist or not. Pakistanis has also made attacks against Indian civilians. So ummmm, any other way you feel like embarassing yourself again hippie?btw.....cintron, get your 4X4 cause we'se a gettin us sum terrorists.....n' lets gets us sum hippies down dere too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackorn Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Originally posted by sassa What is this I am reading? Russians don't hate America? Sorry, but that is complete bullshit. Maybe some don't,but I've met way too many to think that is true...There's a lot of anti-everything in Russia...they are racist against anyone who doesn't fit in...and I mean everyone. I think racism is even more rapid there than it is here in the US....but I do agree with how they will never align themselves with any Muslim countries...they're killing enough Muslims in their country already to prove that... THANK YOU. Someone gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 sassa can i ask u something. where were you born? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 why is anyone interested in discussing politics on the clubbing messageboard? i really find it strange and upsetting! can't you all just have more fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycmuzik Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Originally posted by zlatang why is anyone interested in discussing politics on the clubbing messageboard? i really find it strange and upsetting! can't you all just have more fun? We have tons of fun when we go out but there are certain things that are a bit more important. Some people on the board are interested in people's opinions on other subjects. It would get alittle boring around here if all we talked about was clubs. Plus these topics affect our daily lives and our future's.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Originally posted by nycmuzik2000 We have tons of fun when we go out but there are certain things that are a bit more important. Some people on the board are interested in people's opinions on other subjects. It would get alittle boring around here if all we talked about was clubs. Plus these topics affect our daily lives and our future's.......... hmmm, i agree that these things affect our lives, i was starting a bit of drama here...however, i still think this is not the right webiste to discuss such issues....just not appropriate..how ever, just go ahead and i'll just skip the political debates.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaksny Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 All I'd say is yes China and Russia do hate us in certain respects, but they hate Muslim fundamentalism more, b/c it's probably more of a direct national security threat to each of them since they each face Muslim insurrections within their own national borders, as well as right outside their borders. Why else do you think they've supported the war on terrorism? And China certainly doesn't want a war between India and Pakistan b/c it would get immediately involved. Remember the other part of Kashmir is in Chinese territory. I don't think Russia wants a war in South Asia either since it would probably only inflame militant Muslim fundamentalism on and within its own border.And Sassa, you're right about Russian racism. The 2nd Chechnyan war was started after an attack by someone (no one ever proved who carried it out) on a housing complex in Moscow in which several hundred were killed. No serious evidence was ever offered as to who carried it out. Putin, Yeltsin, and most of the Russian public just assumed it was Chechneyan terrorists, which it may well've been, but that was the pretext upon which the 2nd war was waged, and which Russia essentially used an excuse to bomb and blast the republic back into the stone age. That's taking it a little far, but they basically destroyed all the infrastructure in every major city in the republic, and drove 10s of thousands of civilians out of their homes, all in the name of crushing a rebellion, which they still haven't wiped out, and probably never will. Granted there was foreign radical Islamic military assisantance to the rebellion, but there was also an indigenous independence movement fighting Russian rule there, more radically so than in any other Republic in the federation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 ah actually it wasnt that simple. The 'evil' russian empire didnt just come in and ruin perfect cities all in the name of crushing a rebellion. dont forget, chechnya was and officially is a russian republic, which means that the locals are russian citizens. when the russian troops withdrew, local muslim warlords brought chechnya into a state of anarchy, where kidnappings, murders and bombing were a daily event. i dont disapprove of russians wanting to put control over the criminal elements who are linked to bin laden. what i do disapprove of is the tactics used by the army, an army that is made up of many ex convicts and criminals, due to low conscription rates. with no money to maintain a professional and effective army, russian army cuts too many corners and discipline is very low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaksny Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Ya notice I said Russian republic Tribal. You might try reading what other people right b4 u reply next time. Of course they were trying to protect their territorial integrity, I don't deny that. But what started the war? What was the spark that set the 2nd war off? The attack on the housing complex in Moscow. That was the alleged provocation Yeltsin and Putin used as the basis of restarting the conflict, which had been stalemated since 1996 b/c Russia got its ass kicked in the 1st conflict in the 1st Yelstin adminstration, one of the issues that could've cost him the 96 election if he hadn't waged that massive anti-communist propoganda campaign that swept him back into office. And as you correctly point out in the 2nd half of your post, that's what brought down the ire of the West (especially Europe and the UN), the iron fisted way Putin essentially waged the war. It had many of the same effects as did Milosevics ethnic cleansing earlier that same year in Kossovo, in destroying peoples homes, killing hundreds (maybe thousands of civilians), and driving 10s of thousands more from their homes. Why did these violent groups accept aid from Bin Laden? B/c this is how Russian rules Chechnya, and probably has for the last few centuries. Sure these people are Russian citizens, but Chechnya clearly has the strongest indigenous independence movement of any republic in the federation. That's why my previous post didn't simplify anything. I took as a given the Russian opinion, in fact it should've been implicit in the 1st half of my post, but whatever. I'm not saying the local warlords as you and others may call them are all perfect either, and obviously their guilty of most of the atrocities you accuse them of. But on the other hand, they don't have the military resources of the world's 2nd most powerful military at their disposal either, now do they? Russia used that relentlessly in the 2nd conflict and by destroying whatever civilization was their beforehand, probably stengthened the independence movement's political popularity in the long term. The problem for them now however is 9/11 has changed everything in terms of America's opposition to Russian heavyhandedness, so things are likely to get worse b4 they get better. Europe is probably gonna be a bit less accomodating of Russia's policies there, but I don't know how much leverage they have from a strategic standpoint when American and Nato military forces are collaborating with Russian forces and using the latter's military bases in Russia itself, as well in other countries within its effective sphere of influence (namely Central Asian CIS states). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 whoever has caused the moscow attacks is not certain, but i cant sympathise with the chechen insurgents. they were connected to bin laden and were a cancer to the region long before the first russian assault. one of their aims was to establish a muslim state within russia, a taliban-like regime to counter the christian russian state. moscow was going to give maskadov, the warlord, independence, because it did not want to spend more money on the war. but as soon as any central moscow control left out of sight, the entire region collapsed into anarchy, thereby destabilizing neighbor regions, and bringing on the islamic threat. there is a great tendency in the western media to report russian military violations, while at the same time to keeping quiet at the unacceptable level of chaos the warlords let the region slip into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaksny Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Ya and there's a much greater tendency to attack muslim political movements everywhere in the world as all being one large massive network, esp in the western media. I remember the events your referring to though b/c the war dominated the BBC world news broadcasts for what seemed like the 2nd half of 1999 (when East Timor wasn't on anyway) and I do remember the rebel incursions into Daghestan and Ingushetia at the time. I c your point to an extent, but it's really not clear to me, especially now that anything's improved as a result of the Russian military presence there. Sadly I haven't been following the story that closely for the last 2 years, largely b/c it isn't getting anything like the media attention it was getting at the time, so I don't know if Moscow has actually started in earnest to rebuild everything it destroyed. My worry, as in many places that are destroyed militarily in a campaign like this is, that the underlying social, economic, and political causes that lead young men in particular to join these movements aren't being addressed, particularly by Putin, who despite his support for economic reform, may be more concerned with the military security situation in the region, than fostering its economic development. The insurgency's still going on in the South of the republic anyway, it can't be wiped out militarily. Eventually some sort of political settlement, probaby involving more autonomy, will be required to put this thing to rest for good. You're also correct in saying the insurgents wanted to create a Muslim state in the area, which I suppose isn't in the strategic interests of Russia or the Central Asian States, most of whom have faced or still face strong insurgencies in their own borders. There was a foreign presence linked to al-qaeda and the taliban there it's true, but I don't know that Russian rule is really a significantly better alternative, if it doesn't offer serious social and economic development, let alone democracy. There are strong racial and religious issues involved in this war, and it wasn't strictly a security operation. It still isn't to this day, and that probably explains a good portion of the region's underdevelopment as well. Russia's got one of the most corrupt capitalist economies in the world anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonicinfusion Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Originally posted by breaksny All I'd say is yes China and Russia do hate us in certain respects, but they hate Muslim fundamentalism more, b/c it's probably more of a direct national security threat to each of them since they each face Muslim insurrections within their own national borders, as well as right outside their borders. Why else do you think they've supported the war on terrorism? And China certainly doesn't want a war between India and Pakistan b/c it would get immediately involved. Remember the other part of Kashmir is in Chinese territory. I don't think Russia wants a war in South Asia either since it would probably only inflame militant Muslim fundamentalism on and within its own border.And Sassa, you're right about Russian racism. The 2nd Chechnyan war was started after an attack by someone (no one ever proved who carried it out) on a housing complex in Moscow in which several hundred were killed. No serious evidence was ever offered as to who carried it out. Putin, Yeltsin, and most of the Russian public just assumed it was Chechneyan terrorists, which it may well've been, but that was the pretext upon which the 2nd war was waged, and which Russia essentially used an excuse to bomb and blast the republic back into the stone age. That's taking it a little far, but they basically destroyed all the infrastructure in every major city in the republic, and drove 10s of thousands of civilians out of their homes, all in the name of crushing a rebellion, which they still haven't wiped out, and probably never will. Granted there was foreign radical Islamic military assisantance to the rebellion, but there was also an indigenous independence movement fighting Russian rule there, more radically so than in any other Republic in the federation. First of all Muslim Radicals are in 5% of the muslim population ... I know that for a fact .... Its just the way the media shows u here .. I am from pakistan, karachi and you can do what ever the fuck u want to in that city .. its crazy .. its so much fun ... U have clubs there .. wine shops and all sort of things u want to do .. U get cheap E pills and very poten very cheap HASH, K anything u name it... and the muslim radicals in that city are not even 5% .. and we hate them ourselves .. but its not there fault also .. they were brought up like that .. they are very poor ppl and have no money for schooling so they end up goin to islamic school (madarsa's) and they only listen to the Mullah which is the head of the school and that bastard him self is a radical so these ppl end up like that .. China and Russia are fighting with the radicals ... but no gives a shit to them .. Russia is pissed cause of the oil which will come from uzbek and the treaty which USA backed off from .. and china is pissed cause of US army in deep asia .. this makes alot of diff ...Our gov doesnt give a fuck to radicals .. we did not even stop when loads of ppl went to afghnistan to fight jihad with USA .. cause we want to get rid of them also .. but they are in minority my friends ...You guys come on the board and cuss muslim's i mean do u even think before what you say !! do you know how fuckin stupid you sound behind the screen cussing ppl WHO ARE WITH YOU .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.