i think 75% of clubbers/promoter do not have a clue...

[buredf]

no im knocking it

im saying that all the styles are similar

that kid was saying trance is the same shit over and over

and im makign the point that so is alot of other stuff

[buredf]

so i dont know how thats knockign it

because in reality alot of these styles have alot of repition

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by buredf

"Not enough substance, too much media exposure. That's trance."

thats what u said

exactly what is substance to a track here

music, melody, bass, beat, and the groove.

trance's groove comes from the lush breakdowns and melodies

every style of music gets it groove from somewhere

i guess u are saying all music with these elements lack substance

make some sense man

. . no dingleberry, he's saying that trance has already been huge . . You missed the boat on that one too . . . You're missing the bigger issue, which is beats IN GENERAL not being respected in the public consciousnes . . Put down the vicks and the beans and read a fucking book . . . . . .

[buredf]

yo ok

so then what do u think we need to do to get beats in general to the public eye?

i know i am trying.. i am an aspiring american producer looking to take the scene by storm sometime in the future

[Codica3]

Originally posted by buredf

im saying that all the styles are similar

All styles are NOT similiar.. how are you gonna tell me that deep, dark tribal is practically the same as hardcore? They are different genres for a reason.

[buredf]

oh come on..

how stupid is that codica

im not saying similar in the sense that they are musically the same

but yo if u know anything about the music..

like hear let me give u an example

and this is more technical and you look like a DJ

when is the clap ever on the 1 and 3 in any track?

or when does the kick play on the off beat consistenly..

my point is that the stlyes are similar in terms of concepts.

not per say the music

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by buredf

yo ok

so then what do u think we need to do to get beats in general to the public eye?

i know i am trying.. i am an aspiring american producer looking to take the scene by storm sometime in the future

Its not gonna happen. There is no proverbial "I" in electronic music . . . I'm not gonna state the whole theory again, cause it was long winded, but think about why all these shitty vocal tracks get big . . and why for a time groups like The Prodigy got big . . . They had the egoistic "I" that america looks for in music . . . You change america's viewpoint on that, and you'll sell quality rekkerds in mass quantity . . .

[Codica3]

I'm still confused as to the point you were trying to make with this thread.....

Because you said that we don't play as much trance as they do overseas.. then you say you don't want any more of the prog house and tribal.. then you say that the only places that have good music are Vinyl and Centro Fly --> both of which specialize in prog house, tech and tribal..

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at..

[sdeelite]

Originally posted by buredf

ok but you guys are missing the point

why is the NY scene not the same as in Europe

whether its house or trance the US dance scene is not what it is in europe

and the people are not buying the music like they are in europe

thats been the main premise of this

so does it really matter what kind of music it is

trance/house

First off:

House=Originated in the US

Trance=Originated in Europe

Second,

There is a reason dance music does not do as well (yet) in the states as it does in Europe...in the US it has not reached that status of "Pop[ular] music", over there it has. In europe, whether it be commerical stuff or underground, it usually has a big chance of blowing up there if it's of the dance music genre, mainly trance, since most of europe tends to be trance oriented. For example, their MTV actually plays dance music videos...and not just at 3 am. People over there give it a chance and accept it. It is part of the bigger culture. People here on this side of the pond, do not (and it is really just a sub-culture). Though it seems like there are a lot of us here who love dance music (this includes anything from trance to house to electro to techno, to whatever), really, in comparison to everyone else we are a small percentage of the population (in the US). Right now even getting any mainstream trance or house tracks on the radio is paving a better way to expose the scene and the music, but most of us bitch about shit becoming too commercial and played out when that happens, yet at the same time, complain that our scene isn't like what it is in europe. You can't keep your music sacred and want it too blow up at the same time. It is one or the other.

Also, this was another good point made before...NY is a house town, always has been, always will be. As is Chicago. Florida and Texas, trance. I don't think NY will ever completely bite into the trance thing as much as they do house, just because of the city's history with house. That is just the way it is. I like trance ok, but I LOVE my house. Maybe it's because I grew up in NY, I dunno, but I'm sure if I grew up in Miami, I'd be a trance head. It's a completely regional thing, and this goes for talking about europe too, which is predominantly trance in many areas.

And as for this comment:

"i was in the listening panel and i heard two insane trance records played and george calle one of the listeners and the guy from robbins were like, they are at best ok."

I work for Robbins, and I'm sure you know that we do DO trance. In fact many of our acts are from europe. Most of our stuff, though it is the most commercial stuff out there, is trance. I am sure that if the tracks were really so amazing "the robbins guy" would have snagged it, or at least asked to listen to it further. But like someone said before, what is great to one, may not be great to another. Also, maybe it was a good track, but was just too underground for what we or george calle do. U never know. Just trying to keep things in perspective.

[buredf]

very well said.

very well said.

what you guys at robbins are doing is decent with regards to trance.

but if u really want to expose trance and get it further try licensing a record from ferry corsten, marco v, armin van buuren, cygnus x

something like that

see what happens

or at least start with a compilation.

develop american trance artists instead of just licensing commercial vocals..

thats one of my MAIN points about this thread...

the US labels arent doin what the euro labels are doing and thats why it isnt becoming as popular.

and i dont think its because theres no material.

i have sent u guys some really good trance thats now coming out on another label..

just think there are probably more artists/producers like me out there

[Xpander]

Originally posted by buredf

"Not enough substance, too much media exposure. That's trance."

thats what u said

exactly what is substance to a track here

music, melody, bass, beat, and the groove.

trance's groove comes from the lush breakdowns and melodies

every style of music gets it groove from somewhere

i guess u are saying all music with these elements lack substance

make some sense man

Oh yes, slap a melody and a beat to a groove, there's great trance. Lush melodies...much like the annoying hoover lines that's in half of every trance track nowadays. And you just proved my point, trance has grew into this thing where it's just another random melody propped up by a beat on the side.

And you're wondering why I say there's not enough substance in trance?

that kid was saying trance is the same shit over and over

and im makign the point that so is alot of other stuff

Are you joking? There's a hell of a lot more to trance than just a simple beat and a melody which apparently YOU've never heard of. This is the point that I was trying to make. This is why you can't so much as even understand points made to you over and over and over again throughout this thread, much less argue against it.

You're a producer?! Telling ME to make sense?! I sincerely hope you learn a thing or two and stop sounding like Danwilson before you touch anything.

[jjcbebe]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

. . . You're forgetting about 20 other genre's there sweetiepie . . . . . Last time I checked there were more than just house/trance heads, and the fact that you CAN'T see that fact almost acknowledges to me that you're more part of the problem, then the solution . ..

For your information "sweetie" I do know that there are more genre's and there are a lot, I did not think I was expected to write them all I assumed that everybody here was aware of them all.

So your WRONG.

And i think people like you are the problem.. why must we even bash each other. We all like Electronica right. I am stupid, I thought that meant we were all together united together as friends and lovers of a certain type of music that not all people can understand.

I see that I was wrong everyone seems to be full of shit in every music. Here i was thinking man you know our music is about love and peace and basically PLUR.

And for your information I have always been the one to inform people on music. I always knew my song titles, and dj's. Unlike other people that go a club and don't know.

Listen Electronica is a part of my life and so therefore I like to keep myself educated its a part of the reason that I am a part of this group/

who cares Trance, House, Ambient.. and well do i need to write the,m all so you can have a little more knowledge in your life? Its a part of Electronica and I though like a fool that it meant we all had something in common.

Thank You for showing me the error of my ways.

[siphor]

Hard House, tribal, progressive forever!::::..

[sdeelite]

Originally posted by buredf

very well said.

very well said.

what you guys at robbins are doing is decent with regards to trance.

but if u really want to expose trance and get it further try licensing a record from ferry corsten, marco v, armin van buuren, cygnus x

something like that

see what happens

or at least start with a compilation.

develop american trance artists instead of just licensing commercial vocals..

Here's the thing with commercial vocals...they sell.

Here's the thing with the music business right now...it's suffering. So putting out what sells the best is good and smart business, plain and simple.

Ferry Corsten, Marco V, Armin Van Buren, they are all great...and though they each have done some remixes for commercial artists, most their original material, though it is good, will not sell a lot in the US, and that is bad business.

You have to understand that though the music business revolves around music (and god knows music is my life) it is also very much a business, just like any other.

We are a commercial label, that is what we do...there are other labels that specialize in going more underground and perhaps they will pick up on what you are talking about, but we stick to what we know and what we have become known for.

As for American trance artists...how should I put this...

Well, most American trance that I hear does not even compare to those Europeans, let's just put it that way. I don't know why, I wish I could say differently, but that is the truth. The goal of any record label is to pick up the best quality out there, and if the quality isn't there, it is not going to be picked up or be developed for that matter--waste of time and money.

Hope that helps explain it better...

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by sdeelite

First off:

House=Originated in the US

Trance=Originated in Europe

Second,

There is a reason dance music does not do as well (yet) in the states as it does in Europe...in the US it has not reached that status of "Pop[ular] music", over there it has. In europe, whether it be commerical stuff or underground, it usually has a big chance of blowing up there if it's of the dance music genre, mainly trance, since most of europe tends to be trance oriented. For example, their MTV actually plays dance music videos...and not just at 3 am. People over there give it a chance and accept it. It is part of the bigger culture. People here on this side of the pond, do not (and it is really just a sub-culture). Though it seems like there are a lot of us here who love dance music (this includes anything from trance to house to electro to techno, to whatever), really, in comparison to everyone else we are a small percentage of the population (in the US). Right now even getting any mainstream trance or house tracks on the radio is paving a better way to expose the scene and the music, but most of us bitch about shit becoming too commercial and played out when that happens, yet at the same time, complain that our scene isn't like what it is in europe. You can't keep your music sacred and want it too blow up at the same time. It is one or the other.

Also, this was another good point made before...NY is a house town, always has been, always will be. As is Chicago. Florida and Texas, trance. I don't think NY will ever completely bite into the trance thing as much as they do house, just because of the city's history with house. That is just the way it is. I like trance ok, but I LOVE my house. Maybe it's because I grew up in NY, I dunno, but I'm sure if I grew up in Miami, I'd be a trance head. It's a completely regional thing, and this goes for talking about europe too, which is predominantly trance in many areas.

And as for this comment:

"i was in the listening panel and i heard two insane trance records played and george calle one of the listeners and the guy from robbins were like, they are at best ok."

I work for Robbins, and I'm sure you know that we do DO trance. In fact many of our acts are from europe. Most of our stuff, though it is the most commercial stuff out there, is trance. I am sure that if the tracks were really so amazing "the robbins guy" would have snagged it, or at least asked to listen to it further. But like someone said before, what is great to one, may not be great to another. Also, maybe it was a good track, but was just too underground for what we or george calle do. U never know. Just trying to keep things in perspective.

. . . I agree with what you said except for that bit about florida . . . FL was about breaks . . . trust me, I lived down there for 10 years . . . Nowadays its about cheez top 40, but when it was blowing up . . it was about breaks . . .

[sdeelite]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

. . . I agree with what you said except for that bit about florida . . . FL was about breaks . . . trust me, I lived down there for 10 years . . . Nowadays its about cheez top 40, but when it was blowing up . . it was about breaks . . .

True, my bad...it def is breaks and trance down there for sure...

Didn't mean to neglect the breaks:)

[buredf]

explain to me how united -- avb's label thought my stuff was quality and you guys didnt

pretty funny statement

[sobeton]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

. . . I agree with what you said except for that bit about florida . . . FL was about breaks . . . trust me, I lived down there for 10 years . . . Nowadays its about cheez top 40, but when it was blowing up . . it was about breaks . . .

when was the last time you where in florida ? on any given night you can hear tech, trance, house, dnb, breaks, salsa, etc. the variety is there and always has been. you just have to know where to look. the days of every club in south florida playing trance; are long gone.

with regard to the trance thing. trance is till very much alive, and will be around in some shape or form for quite sometime. you have artist like Marco V., Johan Gielen, Tiesto, PVD, Mauro Picotto, etc who incorporate trance into their sets. in addition you have artist like DT, Danny Howells, Sander kleinenberg, Nick Warren, etc who many consider house dj’s; that also incorporate trance; into their sets. trance much the same as disco, dnb, breakbeats, freestyle, etc will always be around. the most creative dj’s imo are the ones, who can take all the dance genres put them together, and make them work.

[TrentBeefpile]

WOOT!

[phuturephunk]

Originally posted by sobeton

when was the last time you where in florida ? on any given night you can hear tech, trance, house, dnb, breaks, salsa, etc. the variety is there and always has been. you just have to know where to look. the days of every club in south florida playing trance; are long gone.

. . Its been about 2 years since I"ve been down there, not counting my vacation to the WMC . . . And plus, you're from Miami, which was always different from the rest of the state . . . . .

[sobeton]

Originally posted by phuturephunk

. . Its been about 2 years since I"ve been down there, not counting my vacation to the WMC . . . And plus, you're from Miami, which was always different from the rest of the state . . . . .

very true the beats out of miami; are way different. the northern part of the state is still into breaks; which is kewl. but I like the variety going through miami right now. it's been a long time coming..

[sdeelite]

Originally posted by buredf

explain to me how united -- avb's label thought my stuff was quality and you guys didnt

pretty funny statement

Like I said before everyone has a diff opinion...quality to one may not be quality to another. Also United is more underground than us (or should I say less mainstream than us), if my hunch is right your material was probably just not right for OUR label in particular.

And I can't tell u anything unless I know who you are and what exactly your stuff was...maybe then I can get more specific...

And that american trance producer comment was not directly aimed at u just to let u know, it was meant to be a general statement.

[buredf]

i hear ya

but labels are a business

and the way u get ahead in business is going beyond the normal or against the norm..

taking risks.

not with me i dont think... but if u happen to run into good trance thats a little more underground and its good sign the artist

if united can sell it.. so can you..

maybe not as many in america but in europe u will.

give the europeans a reason to believe that american electronic producers are good. there are very few who make the category as being great electronic producers

[rocksteadyct]

hmm can't really contribute to this arguement because its on so many levels now but i still want to throw 2 more cents in. I believe that in order for the US to have a more solid scene we need more educated clubbers/ravers..because once they know what they are talking about, they can decide and choose better music..which will make good music more succesful...but the current state of affairs is that 80% of people at any given club/rave barely can tell you the genre of music being played. A lot of people like dance music, but dont take the time to figure out all the differnt types and figuring out how to get their favorite songs besides downloading. I dont knwo what, but when something makes it so dance music is so approachable that everyone knows the diff between house and trance like they know the difference between rap and rock..that is when the ball will start rolling..any suggestions welcome and also in a previous post i stated i dont care about the scene..its only half true..i dont care for the current US scene so if it died i think it would come back stronger, but theres too many e-heads for it to die

[sdeelite]

Originally posted by buredf

i hear ya

if united can sell it.. so can you..

maybe not as many in america but in europe u will.

give the europeans a reason to believe that american electronic producers are good. there are very few who make the category as being great electronic producers

We are a domestic label which means we sell in the US not in Europe. If we sold in Europe it would be a whole different story. But since we are an American label we don't. That's what the European labels are for, to sell in their territory.

Sales in Europe for us hardly exist. Especially since any of the European acts we license come from there and have already been readily exposed there by their original label. Sales in the US do matter however, and that is our main concern.