lyrik Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by eKiTeL I read somewhere that you get about 200 plays out of vinyl before the sound quality noticeably deteriorates, but hey that's pary of the mystique of vinyl, good things don't last forever, the digital files might sound sharper and clearer, but nothing beats the warmth of real vinyl, the sound contains harmonics beyond the limits of human hearing that you can feel even though you don't actually hear them Yes exactly...and with cds....those harmonics are removed by mastering and done so intentionly because of the theory that it is beyond the dynamic range of human hearing. Its all about the over-tones brother, thats why vinyl is so warm and colored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eKiTeL Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by lyrik Yes exactly...and with cds....those harmonics are removed by mastering and done so intentionly because of the theory that it is beyond the dynamic range of human hearing. Its all about the over-tones brother, thats why vinyl is so warm and colored. ok but here's the question, are the harmonics actually cut into the groove? is the lathe needle capable of vibrating at such high frequencys? is the acetate capable of capturing such microscopic details? and will the metal plates pick them up? obviously there has to be some limit inherent in the process, I'm wondering exactly what it is, may depend also on how good the equipment isor are the harmonics just an artefact of the playback? the playback needle is a very hard object (I hope juxt isn't getting aroused again ) so it's definitely capable of vibrating at extremely high frequencies, the audible frequencies in the record grooves would naturally induce higher frequency harmonics, I think, high frequency harmonics happen whenever a sound resonates through a solid object, I think...hmmm... maybe I think too much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southof5th Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 ok now....99% of people using vinyl are DJs who play electronic music...even if vinyl has a better sound it's wasted on sound that is produced electronically in the first place...and to top it of the difference between vinyl and digital is completeley irrelevant on a club systemvinyl is dead I'm selling my 1200's NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxgrooveericxx Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 I use CD's and I can tell there is a difference between CD/MP3 and vinyl. I can't explain it, I just know there is a difference. Now, in a club/party, you really can't tell the difference. Just my opinion....I hope no one gets mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eKiTeL Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by southof5th ok now....99% of people using vinyl are DJs who play electronic music...even if vinyl has a better sound it's wasted on sound that is produced electronically in the first place... no way bro', electronic music is full of subtleties that are brought out better through vinyl playback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkiexl Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 I relate this to the tube vs solid state amp debate, for any of you who have played instruments like the guitar or bass. Its all about warmth and harmonics. You don't have them with CDs or mp3 because the harmonics are not digitally encoded on the media.While sometimes it is more obvious then others, I can generally hear the difference when a CD is mixed in to a record or vice versa. And MP3, forget about it, stick with wavs and CDs (one in the same) if you need to go digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkiexl Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by southof5th and to top it of the difference between vinyl and digital is completeley irrelevant on a club system No way... Last time Desyn played Nerve, he was mixing CD after CD after CD. I hate seeing stacks of CDs sitting on top of the turntables...anyway... For some reason he mixed in two records and the difference was night and day. Its on system like that where the biggest difference can be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eKiTeL Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 yeah the Allen & Heath V6 mixer has 2 channels with tube preamps in order to add harmonics to digital sources, also I once saw this high end audiophile device for like $5000 that is supposed to do a very good job of adding vinyl-like harmonics to the playback of digital files Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southof5th Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by eKiTeL no way bro', electronic music is full of subtleties that are brought out better through vinyl playback if the equipment is analogue and the processing remains in the analogue domain sure...but most dance music is processed via protools or the like which removes those nuances...also the post processing these days jams up the frequency response almost to the point of clipping before it's committed to a mediumCDs are recorded at 44.1khz but if your processing remains at an increased 96kz and you remain in that domain with final scratch (i.e. you don't downsample to get it on CD) you're good to go.one laptop is hellofa lot better than 3 crates of vinyl to lug aroundand even if there were nuances left that would be distinguished on vinyl it's totally lost on a cranked clubsystemso for all of that digital medium offers sooo much more in terms of convenience and creativity to offset ANY differences in sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juxt Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 I once saw this high end audiophile device for like $5000 that is supposed to do a very good job of adding vinyl-like harmonics to the playback of digital files Haaa... my Behringer mixer has "vinylize" as one of the effects. That's some funny shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkiexl Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by eKiTeL yeah the Allen & Heath V6 mixer has 2 channels with tube preamps in order to add harmonics to digital sources, also I once saw this high end audiophile device for like $5000 that is supposed to do a very good job of adding vinyl-like harmonics to the playback of digital files Yep, we'll be seeing more and more of this kind of equipment to "preserve" the analog sound as more and more people start mixing digitally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southof5th Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Originally posted by juxt Haaa... my Behringer mixer has "vinylize" as one of the effects. That's some funny shit. \LOL- i think that one adds in crackle and pops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bling Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 holy shit a thread about music kick ass and now here i go ruining it sowwy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Most club systems take out those harmonics to begin with, since the output signal enters the digital domain via any number of devices, compressor/limiters, speaker managment systems like the BSS and NEXO units, and other such devices...so vinyl's warmth is not as important anymore, since it is canceled out, or sometimes added in later after processing. That's where on occasion you will see someone who only does analog installs, with no digital processing whatsoever. SBS (www.systemsbyshorty.com) is one of these firms...whereas Phazon (www.phazonsound.com), and our own local wizards over at Infinite (www.goinfinite.com) tend to import the sound into the digital domain before playback. In the end, I think a digitally processed signal is better, as certain artifacts are removed, it handles a digital original better, and little factors like sonic fatigue and such are combatted more effectively. Of course, if someone is real anal, all of this can be bypassed. But who would want to? My thinking is that vinyl will be around for the purists, and the eventual interface of choice will be uncompressed 24/96 digital audio with a Final Scratch interface. You just cannot beat the tactile interface of vinyl right now. Right now being the operative term. The MIT Media Lab has a project where one of the applications will be an interface for DJing without the use of vinyl, and not having to click and drag with a mouse...This reminds me of the debate raging on my side of the fence, the film vs digital debate. Anyone wants to tangle with me on that, we'll do it elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexusgroove Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Originally posted by pod Most club systems take out those harmonics to begin with, since the output signal enters the digital domain via any number of devices, compressor/limiters, speaker managment systems like the BSS and NEXO units, and other such devices...so vinyl's warmth is not as important anymore, since it is canceled out, or sometimes added in later after processing. That's where on occasion you will see someone who only does analog installs, with no digital processing whatsoever. SBS (www.systemsbyshorty.com) is one of these firms...whereas Phazon (www.phazonsound.com), and our own local wizards over at Infinite (www.goinfinite.com) tend to import the sound into the digital domain before playback. In the end, I think a digitally processed signal is better, as certain artifacts are removed, it handles a digital original better, and little factors like sonic fatigue and such are combatted more effectively. Of course, if someone is real anal, all of this can be bypassed. But who would want to? My thinking is that vinyl will be around for the purists, and the eventual interface of choice will be uncompressed 24/96 digital audio with a Final Scratch interface. You just cannot beat the tactile interface of vinyl right now. Right now being the operative term. The MIT Media Lab has a project where one of the applications will be an interface for DJing without the use of vinyl, and not having to click and drag with a mouse...This reminds me of the debate raging on my side of the fence, the film vs digital debate. Anyone wants to tangle with me on that, we'll do it elsewhere. Digital audio Mangement Processing Rocks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidalexander Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Last week at crobar between the main room and the vip room there was absolutly no vinyl played after 1am. Stephan Luke was using FS and Mark was using all cds, plus you got Morillo...that was pretty damm convincing to me...I love vinyl....love the sound, love the feel...etc, etc....but most people in a club dont care and can't tell what source your using for sound...I still am buying vinyl but will be looking at a FS systemD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Most people don't care, which is true...especially in Miami. In another thread I actually stated that the "ultra lounges" in town like BED, Rumi, and Mynt could put a PC with shitloads of MP3s, a touchscreen for the clientele, and that would suffice for musical selection for the evening...then someone actually made a point that Rumi's DJ on one night actually just automixes MP3s for the most part...again, the patrons of those venues don't really care, so I think an MP3 system would actually be in their best interests.In my mind, FS is the way to go, you keep your existing gear, but are fully capable of going to a digital/laptop method if you so desire during your set. I'm actually surprised someone like Morillo doesn't use FS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laliux Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 I use Traktor DJ Studio....it's pretty good IMO...needs more features though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest saleen351 Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 only time i can tell it's wax being played is old school classics which will pop and crackle, but i like that,,,, you know the record has been played.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranzwhore Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Originally posted by saleen351 only time i can tell it's wax being played is old school classics which will pop and crackle.. u forgot Snap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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