captainpec Posted October 14 Author Report Share Posted October 14 Sorry but I have to disagree with you there - Pedro Martinez is an outstanding pitcher..Last nite they were discussing whether or not Pedro would go to the Hall of Fame if he retired this year, and the announcers said ABSOLUTELY.Not that the stupid FOX announcers know what the hell they're talking about half the time, but they showed an interesting fact - they put up comparison numbers for Pedro and for Sandy Koufax - Pedro's numbers are almost identical to those of Sandy's, in some categories he's already surpassed those of Koufax's.. the only stat they showed that was much better for Koufax was complete games - he had close to 150 whereas Pedro has liker 42 or something like that.The guy is still one of the best pitchers in baseball, even if he's not as dominant as he was a few years ago. I definitely don't agree that he's overrated.Outstanding pitcher he is, but has he produced when his team has needed him? Winning games during the season is good for shits and giggles, but if you can't get your team a ring... it means shit. I don't want him on my team and would be pissed when we sign him next season.For the record, I fucken hate FOX Sportscasters more than the Red Sox. Ignorant bunch of fucks that spew facts from their asses. As a sportscaster, are you not supposed to question pitches during a game? I could understand if it was a big pitch or a pitch that meant a strike out of something, but I have heard one too many times - wow that was close, but I don't think it was a strike... Maybe it's just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 you guys are nuts. He gave up three runs to a pretty good lineup so you say he choked. That comment is laughable. IF the sox score 4 we would be talking about how he shut the yanks down. Lets see top 10 era,top 10 strikeouts, top 10 wins. Look at the pitchers available next year, who would you take pavano? radke?lowe(hahah). When Pavano strings together more then one and a half years then maybe I would trust him. HE is also pitching in the national league. You could add about a half a run to his era if he comes here, with that add about 2 losses and minus 2 wins.First ballot HOF, and people were saying the same thing about clemens in 96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Outstanding pitcher he is, but has he produced when his team has needed him? Winning games during the season is good for shits and giggles, but if you can't get your team a ring... it means shit. I don't want him on my team and would be pissed when we sign him next season...For once I agree with ya...not gonna make it a habit though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomembername Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 I dunno?how annoying is it when Boston chants "Yankees Suck" or "Jeter Sucks"? now NY is stooping to that low level fan base they call the Red Sox Nation and actually using profanity....who would've ever known?ps....funny how the Yankees fan base and media were priding themselves on being upscale compared to Boston, but in the end, the media was and fans were just full of shitwhat are you talking about...now you're just reaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Johnson most likely...but according to Sox fans, Pedro's better...yawnwho said that? OR are you making shit up again.Pedro has no control over how many runs the red sox score for him. Clemens never won shit for us, but he goes to the yanks and just like that he is a clutch pitcher. If pedro was on the yanks for the past 7 years you would be talking about how he was the best pitcher you guys ever had. EVER. HE would of been you #1 starter and would of won 75% of his games. IF he had the yankee offensive backing and rivera and did not have to face the yanks what do you think his record would be. I do not think the yanks would sign pedro alot of people in new york do not like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 you guys are nuts. He gave up three runs to a pretty good lineup so you say he choked. That comment is laughable. IF the sox score 4 we would be talking about how he shut the yanks down. but they didn't score 4 runs now did they? With Schilling out, he NEEDED to step up and be the HOF ace that he wants to be paid to be. He had to be lights out, but he wasn't...he couldn't afford to make a mistake...but he hid. Stop babying him already...sheesh it's old now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 you are reaching, he did what he was asked, the sox did not back him. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 who said that? OR are you making shit up again.Pedro has no control over how many runs the red sox score for him. Clemens never won shit for us, but he goes to the yanks and just like that he is a clutch pitcher. If pedro was on the yanks for the past 7 years you would be talking about how he was the best pitcher you guys ever had. EVER. HE would of been you #1 starter and would of won 75% of his games. IF he had the yankee offensive backing and rivera and did not have to face the yanks what do you think his record would be. I do not think the yanks would sign pedro alot of people in new york do not like him.1. I'm not a Yankee fan so don't u ever put me in THAT category2. I'm sick of hearing Pedro being God when he chokes time and time and time again...I'm calling it how I see...wipe the crap from your eyes and see it too.3. The Yankees signed Clemens for God's sake...anything is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codica3 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 you guys are nuts. He gave up three runs to a pretty good lineup so you say he choked. That comment is laughable. IF the sox score 4 we would be talking about how he shut the yanks down. Lets see top 10 era,top 10 strikeouts, top 10 wins. Look at the pitchers available next year, who would you take pavano? radke?lowe(hahah). When Pavano strings together more then one and a half years then maybe I would trust him. HE is also pitching in the national league. You could add about a half a run to his era if he comes here, with that add about 2 losses and minus 2 wins.First ballot HOF, and people were saying the same thing about clemens in 96.As far as last nite goes, I agree 100% - 3 runs allowed against one of the most potent offenses in the game? I would hardly call that choking - because in that case, I guess Mike Mussina choked in game 1 because he gave up 4 runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 you are reaching, he did what he was asked, the sox did not back him. End of story.What was he asked to do? Keep it within 5 runs? Come on man....Santana could it...twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementx Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Ok my takes... Lieber - Pitched lights out ball when it counted most. His stuff was working and he was keeping the ball down in the zone. It was funny from where I was sitting last night. To watch so many batters just look at Lieber after a swing and miss. A face of total frustration. Martinez - Sorry, but you cant take anything away from this man. The score reflects excellent pitching and one mistake. He pitched one hell of a game and seemed to put himself in a sound proof box... Cause it was loud last night. I taped the game and the post game interviews and watched them this morning. If you ask me and I am not saying this being a Boston hater. But Perdo has changed big time attitude wise. If you ask me he wants to be a Yankee. I think last night during the game I was waiting for him to peg someone. Even in a close game. Just to do something to shake the game up a little bit. But he didnt. Then I listen to the interviews today and aside from the guilt trip and my poor days.... I have never seen him compliment the NY Yankees more than he has this season all season. I am not going to get into the whole team but all in all it was a great pitchers game... Traffic was a bitch... I am exhausted... Glad I have off till next week. Guys as far as meeting up... I will let you all know on Friday night about Saturday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 As far as last nite goes, I agree 100% - 3 runs allowed against one of the most potent offenses in the game? I would hardly call that choking - because in that case, I guess Mike Mussina choked in game 1 because he gave up 4 runs. If he would've gave up 8 runs and lost the game...then he'd be choking...notice the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Choking would be getting shelled in the first and not giving your team a chance to win. He gave our team a chance to win, we didn't. He did what he was supposed to do, if you can not understand that then you do not understand choking.And believe me i UNDErSTAND choking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codica3 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Choking would be getting shelled in the first and not giving your team a chance to win. He gave our team a chance to win, we didn't. He did what he was supposed to do, if you can not understand that then you do not understand choking.And believe me i UNDErSTAND chokingExactly.It happened to Mussina in Game 1 of the ALDS - he pitched a good game, but he couldn't keep the Twins scoreless, and meanwhile, Santana was pitching a gem, but I would HARDLY call that choking. You can't blame the pitcher for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 What was he asked to do? Keep it within 5 runs? Come on man....Santana could it...twice Well I see now you are comparing him to the cy young winner. Santana is nasty and was the whole season, would I take santana over pedro right now sure i would, and so would every other team in the league. BUt last time i checked his team did not make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Choking would be getting shelled in the first and not giving your team a chance to win. He gave our team a chance to win, we didn't. He did what he was supposed to do, if you can not understand that then you do not understand choking.And believe me i UNDErSTAND chokingNot just this game...there are many others I could get into like game 7 last year...but fuck it...y'all will blame Little...can't win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codica3 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Not just this game...there are many others I could get into like game 7 last year...but fuck it...y'all will blame Little...can't winThere are so many other factors that go into losing a game.. trying to pin it all on one pitcher just doesn't work for me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 so now you see your are wrong about last night so you bring up last year. Grady left him out there to die, everyone in the world blames grady except you. Every baseball excpert from gammons to stark to valentine to torre for fucks sake says pedro should of been pulled. BUt because you do not like pedro, he choked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 SO if torre did not pull leiber last night and let him go to the 8th where he probably given up the lead, would you say he choked or torre choked for not getting him out od the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitz73 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 The Sox lost last night because of Jon Lieber, not Pedro Martinez.End of discussion...In the playoffs, if your team doesn't decide to start hitting till the 7th or 8th inning you lose plain & simple.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codica3 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 so now you see your are wrong about last night so you bring up last year. Grady left him out there to die, everyone in the world blames grady except you. Every baseball excpert from gammons to stark to valentine to torre for fucks sake says pedro should of been pulled. BUt because you do not like pedro, he choked.Not to mention that Pedro isn't even the one who technically LOST the game.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 The Sox lost last night because of Jon Lieber, not Pedro Martinez.End of discussion...In the playoffs, if your team doesn't decide to start hitting till the 7th or 8th inning you lose plain & simple....Ummm...how many come from behind wins did the Yankees have this year?Try something else partna... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Ummm...how many come from behind wins did the Yankees have this year?Try something else partna...how many times did they face gordon and rivera? oh wait never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookie23 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 so now you see your are wrong about last night so you bring up last year. Grady left him out there to die, everyone in the world blames grady except you. Every baseball excpert from gammons to stark to valentine to torre for fucks sake says pedro should of been pulled. BUt because you do not like pedro, he choked.Hey man...Pedro didn't want to go...he said he can do it...HOF pitcher like says he could do it...he didn't...plain and simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk4 Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 Hey man...Pedro didn't want to go...he said he can do it...HOF pitcher like says he could do it...he didn't...plain and simplewrong again, he said he thought he was done. But because he is a HOF'er when asked to go he went. Only pansy pitchers would say no, i can not go. Just look what happened to clemens in 86, he had a cold and said he could not go in, and got ridiculed for years. Managers fault, they should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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