Roberts vs. Cano

[JonStephen]

Just asking.......

[lolahotass]

where's nmn? lol

[JonStephen]

or bx

or jtk

or kfitz

or fkorne

or anyone else thats jumped down my throat the last two years arguing prosperity over production

[lolahotass]

lollz

[fkornre]

i'm here

and its Cano...always

[JonStephen]

and its Cano...always

[lolahotass]

[kfitz73]

Just asking.......

LOL...

You always bring this up mid-season when your boy jumps out to an early lead... Like last year when he had a .080 lead in batting average that he somehow managed to lose in the second half. I think it's safe to say that Roberts is a fast starter while Cano is a strong finisher. Lets see how they finish the season before we jump to any conclusions...

[jtk4]

Here we go again. Jon uses the first 2 months as his reasoning then when cano bats .400 for 2 months and roberts doesn't get his hgh shipment he says its a small ample size.

[lolahotass]

who fucking fires a guy at 3am

[JonStephen]

Here we go again. Jon uses the first 2 months as his reasoning then when cano bats .400 for 2 months and roberts doesn't get his hgh shipment he says its a small ample size.

cano is a mediocre player and the sooner you realize that instead of arguing him as the best second baseman in the american league, the sooner you can argue anything that has to do with an intelligent conversation about baseball

[kfitz73]

lol

Jon must be bored...

[nomembername]

where's nmn? lol

I'm here...that wasn't my argument if that is what you meant

[lolahotass]

ohh my bad... I thought it was you that was going back and forth about that last year.....

[jtk4]

cano is a mediocre player and the sooner you realize that instead of arguing him as the best second baseman in the american league, the sooner you can argue anything that has to do with an intelligent conversation about baseball

Coming from the guy that was touting the NL west as the best in baseball last year.

Even with a shitty first half the mediocre 2nd basemans career numbers are then roberts career numbers, but you like to only use 250 at bats to make you point.

If you want to say who is the best second baseman to get caught using steroids then would be right.

[tymathis]

PLEASE SEE THE CHART ATTACHEMENT OR THIS ARTICLE WILL NOT MAKE SENSE

www.matsuifan.com or www.bronxfan.com

Prior to this season I posted this acticle on the above mentioned yankee blog.

Could Cano go onto becomming the greatest yankee second basemen of all time?

Tony Lazzeri, Joe Gordon, Bobby Richardson, Horace Clark, Willie Randolph, and Robinson Cano. What do these players all have in common?

They have all played second base for The New York Yankees.

Certainly many of those names may not ring a bell. For me I'm really only familiar with Cano and Randolph.

Robinson Cano has put up some eye opening numbers in each of his first three years in the Majors. If he continues this trend...could he go onto becoming the greatest yankee second basemen of all time?

Lets take a look at each of these guys best year's as a yankee.

(MIND YOU..with the exception of Robinson Cano, I have taken only those Yankee Second Basemen with at least 6 years of playing second base for the Yankees. PLEASE SEE THE ATTACHEMENT

Now defensively, they didn't start handing out Golden Glove Awards til 1957 (So we don't know what Gordon and Lazzeri may have won)

Bobby Richardson is the only other one in group winning 5 Gold Gloves..CONSECUTIVELY!!

Offensively I have to say that Cano is right on pace to put up some all time Yankee #'s at the position. Barring any trade. You will remember that Alfonso Soriano was once heralded the same way.

Defensively Cano has worked very hard. His range has improved each year and his arm strength has always been strong

What do you think?

[JonStephen]

Coming from the guy that was touting the NL west as the best in baseball last year.

Even with a shitty first half the mediocre 2nd basemans career numbers are then roberts career numbers, but you like to only use 250 at bats to make you point.

If you want to say who is the best second baseman to get caught using steroids then would be right.

whats great is how this started about two years ago after cano hit a high average and you thought he was destined to be the best second baseman in baseball in a couple years.....two years later and he's not even top tier (roberts, kinsler, pedroia). A couple years when alexi ramirez and jose lopez come into their own, he won't even be top 5

good call with the steroids though. nice defensive backtrack

[jtk4]

Ian Kinsler is a top tier 2nd baseman now because he has had a good half of a season but Cano is not at his level because he is having a bad half of a season? When Kinsler finishes a year batting over .300 let me know because last time I checked Cano has already done it twice. Cano has had a terrible first half and his average for the first half is what Kinsler averaged for all of last year.

Not to mention that he already has 16 errors and a .972 FP%, yeah top tier.

Clueless.

[JonStephen]

Ian Kinsler is a top tier 2nd baseman now because he has had a good half of a season but Cano is not at his level because he is having a bad half of a season? When Kinsler finishes a year batting over .300 let me know because last time I checked Cano has already done it twice. Cano has had a terrible first half and his average for the first half is what Kinsler averaged for all of last year.

Not to mention that he already has 16 errors and a .972 FP%, yeah top tier.

Clueless.

keep it up, seriously.....establishing that you believe cano is christ's second coming to the second base position due to a .300 average the past two years is something you've made clear

on that rationale, freddie sanchez should be mentioned as one of the best position players in the NL because he had that great year

i get it now...

[jtk4]

Oh yeah I forgot steals are the most telling stat.

Really why is Kinsler a top tier 2nd baseman? Is it the 16 errors in a half of a year? Or that he gets to less balls then Jeter? Or is it that he hits almost 80 point higher at home, Coors field south, then on the road?

Edited July 23 by jtk4

[JonStephen]

Oh yeah I forgot steals are the most telling stat.

Really why is Kinsler a top tier 2nd baseman? Is it the 16 errors in a half of a year? Or that he gets to less balls then Jeter? Or is it that he hits almost 80 point higher at home, Coors field south, then on the road?

less balls then Jeter? please don't tell me you meant no-range cano who was about to be an outfielder if Torre had his way

and since you wanna go on espn.com for stats.........Kinsler has a much better OBP this year and over his career even though superCano hit .340 one year. Also, Kinsler's 2008 and career OPS beats out Cano.

How about fielding now since you point out 16 errors this year....Kinsler made as many this year as he made each of his previous two so he's had a rough start (sound familiar) but career numbers aren't that far off. Try checking out that stat called RF (Range Factor) where Kinsler's is 50 points higher then Cano's. Wow, imagine that, the stat shows Kinsler gets to more balls then Cano.

And stolen bases, runs, etc. need not be mentioned since its just a non factor even though Cano is in the top lineup money can buy

Do yourself a favor and leave yourself out of any baseball conversations before you continue to embarass yourself by defending Cano to the death

[jtk4]

Lets wait until the end of this year before we start judging these guys on their OPS numbers, I bet kinsler comes back down to earth in the second half and without this year his ops was less then cano's.

For the runs and steals, Kinsler bats lead off, Cano does not. If you need any more help understanding why a player who leads off will score more runs then a player that does not, I am sure you can read up on it.

Range factor does not factor in errors, all it is is assists+putouts/innings which is fine but cano rates higher then him

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/kinslia01.php

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/canoro01.php

[JonStephen]

gotchya. lead off hitters produce more then 7th or 8th hitters.....

question. why do you think they hit lead off instead of getting buried at the bottom of the lineup? is it becuase they are a better hitter? is it because they get on base and do more damage then the 8th hitter? is it because the manager realizes they'd get more runs on the board by getting them more at bats?

wait though....cano batted 6th today with a depleted Yankee roster right behind Richie Sexton and before Melky Cabrera, Jose Molina, and Justin Christian. He's so valuable a hitter he hits behind a .200 hitter that his former team, which is in last place, didn't even want in their lineup anymore

but please, go ahead and explain to me the difference between a leadoff hitter, Kinsler, and a bottom of the order hitter, Cano, who you believe is the god's answer to the second base position.....i want to hear it from the expert

[jtk4]

It going to be great again this year when cano ends the year with better important numbers then these guys, even in Kinlser's career year.

[JonStephen]

try answering the questions i presented and make comments about the points i'm making instead of hiding from fact by going off subject

and career year at 26? i thought baseball prime years where late 20s early 30s.....but you know so much about baseball. just like you know this argument about roberts and cano ended with last year proving roberts as the better ballplayer (again)

btw, who made the all star roster this year? who hasn't made one since 2006 (the year someone hit an average he will never hit again)