Guest slamminshaun Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 there!! 100 posts for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMT Posted October 14 Report Share Posted October 14 this was a pretty active day for the CJ social issues circle. :-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgibson Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 this was a pretty active day for the CJ social issues circle. :-XThe circuit was pretty tiring today.Time to start some mindless thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 Stumbled on a neat Wikipaedia write-up on wage slavery while I was working on something completely unrelated just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pod Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 Oddly enough I read that about 2 days ago. I keep Wiki tabbed as a lookup tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 Surprisingly complete lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 Surprisingly complete lately.Dude, go to sleep. Liberals sleep too don't they? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMT Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 its all a big conspiracy to oppress.about TJ's mortgages comments earlier which are completely misleading... firstly, a balloon loan IS NEVER meant to be kept to maturity. only a clueless idiot would keep one for 30 years. any broker will tell you that upfront. the avg loan life in florida is 3-5 years! the avg home appreciated at LEAST 15% annually. thats why int only loans are gaining popularity... you are earning equity by doing nothing and have a low payment. 80/20 loans are indeed 2 loans, but they work as 1 loan, its not like you are paying for more than your house is worth. yes mortgage lenders are looking out for mortgage lenders, but the basis for the whole industry is referrals. no one will make it in the business long by screwing people over. in fact, you can be prosecuted for it. there are federal and state laws against any negative practices. lenders follow rules just like doctors and lawyers. and there is always a 3 day recision period. mortage BROKERS work on the behalf of the borrowers, theoretically with their best interest in mind. they are salespeople. a broker will try to shop them for the best loan, otherwise the borrower has no reason to get a loan through them. would you buy a car for more money than someone else is asking? great ole american price competition is always on the customer's side. and lenders are always trying to out do one another with their products. loans are available with NO income verification, NO asset verification. seems pretty fair to all borrowers to me, as long as your credit is decent. the notion that mortgages rip off poor people is utterly preposterous. its just like buying anything in any market, you want to know what your getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 firstly, a balloon loan IS NEVER meant to be kept to maturity.Balloon payments don't have to be structured to hit at the end, do they? They can happen after a couple of years and NOT at the end of the loan. A charlatan tried to pimp such a loan to me at one point this week.yes mortgage lenders are looking out for mortgage lenders, but the basis for the whole industry is referrals. no one will make it in the business long by screwing people over."screwing people over" is a subjective concept. From one point of view, which I have been backing up this entire thread, you are screwing people over by operating according to your guidelines. People can get screwed over even if each pawn on the table is following the rules if the game is stacked against the little guy. We aren't talking about state banking laws, we're talking about overall societal trends.Also please remember that this thread isn't about mortage lenders or mortgage brokers. Those were examples. My ability to make six figures by buying a place, sitting on it, and then selling it a couple of years later is another example that has nothing to do with nefarious mortgage lenders. The common element behind all of my bitching is rich people getting richer simply for being rich in the first place, and poor people getting poorer and led further into debt to the rich people simply for being poor in the first place. Mortgages and debt are themselves not the evil, the overall structure of the system is the evil. You're examining a tree with a magnifying glass when we're talking about a forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 firstly, a balloon loan IS NEVER meant to be kept to maturity.Balloon payments don't have to be structured to hit at the end, do they? They can happen after a couple of years and NOT at the end of the loan. A charlatan tried to pimp such a loan to me at one point this week.Last time I checked, a balloon payment pays the loan off, so by definition it always hits at the end. Amortization and loan term are too different things. You can amortize a loan on a ten year schedule, with a balloon in five years. The loan term is five years, because that's when its paid off. But you're right, this thread was about taxes, and not mortgage banking. So who gets rich off SBA loan interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted October 15 Report Share Posted October 15 SBA loan proceeds go back into the SBA, for helping other small businesses in the future.Balloon payments don't have to be full principal payments at the end. You guys have never seen loans with balloons that come along every few years and then continue? I hadn't before this week, learned a new way that rich people screw poor people this week...The thing that I can't get over has nothing to do with any of these mundane loan details. The thing that I can't get over is that Shaun, you and JMT both seem to think that a true laissez fair system is best and that the rich are not really out to screw the poor.Do you really think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMT Posted October 16 Report Share Posted October 16 for the most part, yes.back to mortgages since you repeatedly used it as a direct example...so is it a mystery to the borrower that a ballon is going to occur? do they just get a bill in the mail with no warning? the notion that this is a process that keeps poor people poor is preposterous. heres a fact, mortagage lenders LOOSE MONEY if they foreclose since its so costly and slow a process.so how is someone getting screwed over by being handed something they dont own? at an interest rate typical of the current market? mortgages are just like buying any other product in any market. there is always a small group that will prey on the unsuspecting. but as you alluded to earlier, being poor doesnt make you stupid. getting "screwed" has directly to do with being uninformed rather than poor. all consumers should know what you buy and look for the best deal. no one puts a gun to your head, the EXACT same mortagages available to "rich" people are available to "poor" people.i understand your belief on class warfare, but the mortgage industry is a pretty weak example. real estate is finite and ever appreciating, barring a catastophe. its a virtually guaranteed positive investment. the fact that banks and lenders actually lend out money (using only a credit report) is doing the poor (and anyone for that matter) one of the greatest justices in society. so unless you know a way to get land for free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted October 16 Report Share Posted October 16 real estate is finite and ever appreciating, barring a catastophe. its a virtually guaranteed positive investment. the fact that banks and lenders actually lend out money (using only a credit report) is doing the poor (and anyone for that matter) one of the greatest justices in society.Even after a catastrophe, you can't go wrong. Two direct hits from major hurricanes and Port St. Lucie is still setting Real Estate sales records. New business, not just stuff that was in the pipeline before the storms. Without credit, the poor are guaranteed to stay poor. Leveraging is a fundamental principle of finance. I mean this as a general rule for the masses of course. Tech made his wealth without debt, but he is the exception to the rule. On to balloon payments. If used properly, how does this screw poor people. Balloon loans allow for payments to be smaller as to bridge the gaps in cash flow. For example, one might use a balloon-style loan to keep their monthly payments low on a vacant lot knowing that their construction loan to build a home will pay the loan off way before the balloon payment is due. I've never heard of a loan that has multiple balloon payments. These are not offered by reputable banks and brokerage houses. These are probably offered by shady lenders that break kneecaps if you don't pay. Just because John Gotti breaks kneecaps, doesn't mean you can put banks in the same boat as him simply because both made loans and are funded by wealthy people. I do not believe a true laissez faire system is good, where things are left unchecked. Some governmental controls are good. Too many govermental controls make the system inefficient and non-competitive. Ridiculous taxes is one way the government makes the economy inefficient and non-competitive. If there is no incentive to invest and grow your business, why do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted October 16 Report Share Posted October 16 Okay, so JMT, you think that poor people are poor because they are stupid. No other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted October 16 Report Share Posted October 16 Okay, so JMT, you think that poor people are poor because they are stupid. No other reason.I think poor people are poor because they don't have alot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMT Posted October 16 Report Share Posted October 16 Okay, so JMT, you think that poor people are poor because they are stupid. No other reason.no, you arent paying attention. mortgages can only "screw" financially stupid people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 I'm a die-hard fiscal conservative Tech, start at page 1 and please tell me which one of your posts represents the views of fiscal conservatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 I'm a die-hard fiscal conservative Tech' date=' start at page 1 and please tell me which one of your posts represents the views of fiscal conservatives?[/quote']Yeah this one is pretty easy:I have no debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 So if Stalin had no debt, he's a fiscal conservative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endymion Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 So if Stalin had no debt' date=' he's a fiscal conservative?[/quote']You're facetiously and intentionally ignoring the difference between my personal finances and the US federal budget. I'm flattered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slamminshaun Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 So if Stalin had no debt, he's a fiscal conservative?You're facetiously and intentionally ignoring the difference between my personal finances and the US federal budget. I'm flattered.Haha...good point, macro and micro are quite different. But then again, its all the same as far as the big picture goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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