myrlin Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by iggster: Man you are so on the point.I agree with you and apotheosis. I didnt want to say anything cause then these guys start all this bashing.I added something a while ago to a thread like this and this guy ezdreamer starts shit with me! I never even met or talked to anyone on this board and i can tell you from this shit these guys do I never want to.and I thought the term grade a/b was a great reference term.[This message has been edited by iggster (edited 01-10-2001).]Actually, Charlie was attacked first. In case you hadn't noticed, this has gone far and away above chatting about the topic. If you dont know either party..... you dont get it.AS far as making judgements of not wanting to meet/talk to anyone, you are way off base. Just cause a few people that know each other are having a spat, doesnt give you the right to judge how they are in every aspect of their life.If you dont like it, dont read it.Thx Info------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by jewel44317: I'm not sayin it doesn't bother me that people can be so ignorant, but as I see it if someone is stupid enough to think that money and beauty are all that matter, then I'm not so scared about the strength of their "dark force" b/c it's not fueled by anything with real power...it's just a hollow shell that crumbles very easily.......and not for nuthin, but there are a whole lot more ugly people in the world then beautiful ones...so if they ever need to, they can just unite to over-throw the evil empire disguised as Victoria's Secret and Baywatch.... "Power to the ugly people!!" Do you know the rate of anorexia and bulimia is rising every day? Because young girls out there "BELIEVE" in all the glamour and "thin is beautiful" slogan that Victoria Secret and Miss Teen magazine spits out everyday. Do you know the violence among young men are also rising because of crime? Cause every rap video out there has men driving $200,000 sports cars, wearing five different 40K necklaces, and sitting next to a beautiful girl with a DD breast!!Not be scared of THEIR dark sides??!! Be scared be VERY scared. Cause this ignorance that you're talking about is very alive and living today. It's on every television channel, in every video, and on every magazine. These are the media that the children today and OUR children tomorrow is going to watch and learn from. So it has nothing to do with "if you're stuid enough to believe" but EVERYTHING to do with "children are naive enough to believe".BlueAngel------------------“Maturity is when you stop doing the things you make excuses for and stop making excuses for the things you need to do." -Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by jewel44317: Sorry about all the posts...major computer problems - Anyway - I took him as saying that when he met Charlie, his impression was that on the inside, he was not a happy person. I'm not agreeing - but from an outside view, that's how it came off. Some people can *read* people from off the bat - thought maybe he was one of them. Maybe Apothesis is a schwanz - what the hell do I know - but u guys are gettin all fired up about this, and I'm just responding without taking anything personally....just wanted to clarify, now this thread is definitely finished.OKAY!! I don't know what SIDE Mikey thought he was reading but Charlie is NOT an unhappy person!! FAR FROM IT!!!If anything he is the most self-confident, intelligent, and VERY HAPPY person I've met from this board!! He knows who he is and comes out and show you from the first point. No front, no secrets, no shadiness. And I'm sure 99% of all the memebers who have met Charlie (excluding the 1% Mikey) will agree with me.Mikey, I don't understand how you cam to this conclusion but to tell you the truth YOU were the one who looked like an unhappy guy when you first came out to that Italian restaurant. YOU were the one who was bitching about this and that. YOU were the one who almost jumped right down Charlie and Mitchell's throat when they simply implied that they didn't understand the crowd at Exit.BUTTTTTTTTT, we kept our first impression of you to ourselves and decided to get to know you better! *GASP* Yea, there are actually people out there that does the exact opposite of what you imply. However, I must say that with all the comments you have written in this post . . . I think I've gotten to know you. Grade B, huh? Well if you're theory is correct and I'm assuming it goes both ways for girls AND guys then you're pretty much fucked, Mikey. Cause you're not Grade A who looks like a model out of GQ, which I guess would make you a Grade B . . . but with a not-so-great personality. Sooooo what then?? And just a last note. If you accept it then you DO believe in it. Don't get that mixed up! BlueAngel------------------“Maturity is when you stop doing the things you make excuses for and stop making excuses for the things you need to do." -Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariman Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by apotheosis: Frank, your a scared person. Your a follower, not a leader. You stick to the same rhetoric (sp?) and its proven it self over and over, what do I know about you? I know you stick to EZdreamers side on everything, are you butt buddies too? I have never even once seen something that you too disagree on. Detach yourself man.Ah what meaningless banter this thread has caused. I really didn't want to get into it. Mater of fact it's a little early for me, but I've read two of your "snap" judgements so far and I have one thing to say. Deon Warwick has places for dipshits like you!C'mon man... what do you think your some "master of the universe". I'm starting to belive that those He-Man underwear you wore when you were 10 seaped into your brian somehow. So were going to get back to reality now and out of the mud sling. Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect! I know Charlie very well and for someone you call "unhappy" he has more love for strangers than you will ever obtain. I meet charlie out of the blue one night at Twilo when I first moved to NY. He's probably one of my best friends in the city now. Same goes for Frank. If you want to make judgements of people turn the mirror around and look into yourself because that's where all your problems lie. That's why this thread is at 102 posts. Why do you have to label people anyway. The world works the way it works. It's in the favor of some and the misfortune of others. Causing disruption in an otherwise peaceful environment (the board) shows your personality. But you know what. I'm strong enough to keep my comments to myself!Ok, coffee time now! //sariman------------------P eaceL oveU nityR espect"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today!" -- James Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by apotheosis: Frank, your a scared person. Your a follower, not a leader. You stick to the same rhetoric (sp?) and its proven it self over and over, what do I know about you? I know you stick to EZdreamers side on everything, are you butt buddies too? I have never even once seen something that you too disagree on. Detach yourself man.Okay now I'm just down right disgusted. Don't even bother replying and making some stupid judgement on me, Mikey. Let's just say that my first impression of you was right this time. TOTALLY disappointed!! Like you give a shit . . . whatever.BlueAngel------------------“Maturity is when you stop doing the things you make excuses for and stop making excuses for the things you need to do." -Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexxxi Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Ok...I am going to try and stay on the original thread topic. I read everyones posts and I just want to give my piece at this point. I am not defending or defuncting anyone. I do not believe I know everything. This has been my observations/experiences.I believe the following is true for many people in society.... magazines, runway models, strippers, music/movie/porn stars, people in a crowd and anyone else that is considered "hot" may make people (male or female) feel undesirable, unattractive and generally unwanted. I have close friends that suffered from bulemia because they felt inferior to these "people of beauty". The society we live in has a strong essence of "if you look good then you must be good". But, I must say, alot of us fall victim to it. Some examples that I am think we can all relate to are: 1 --- when I see a great looking guy or girl, I will do a double take purely based on looks (I am an animal after all)...it's the way it goes. 2 --- if I am done up for an evening and I think I look good and no one makes a positive comment, I will get a feeling of "I must be unattractive". 3 --- I have met people who will base who they hang with purely on how those people look. It's sad...there is so much more to people than this.The one thing I do love about most of the people I know/met is they take the intial glance a step further...not make snap judgements (and I have made snap judgements myself...guilty as charged). This step further is --- if I meet someone I like, I could give a shit what they look like, how much money they have, what they drive, etc. If they are genuine, then that's all I need and I want to hang with them. It makes me feel good to be surrounded by people who see me for who I am and like it (or dislike it, if need be) and I hope that I make them feel good too. There is more to life than muscles, hair and makeup (and I like these things too..but they are not the ultimate priority)!Now, this being said, I do not consider myself some sort of godess. Anyone who knows me knows this. Looks wise, I am average but I do like to try to look good --- do my hair, put on a little makeup and dress nicely. I am shallow this way and I can accept that. It took a long time for me to realize that the first thing I should worry about is what I think of myself...what others think of me comes secondary. I like to believe I have some very excellent qualities...and I think that it is these qualities my friends and loved ones have come to enjoy the most about me. I know....easier said than done!!!Ok....I am done.....boy can I yap!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrlin Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by lexxxi:Ok...I am going to try and stay on the original thread topic. I read everyones posts and I just want to give my piece at this point. I am not defending or defuncting anyone. I do not believe I know everything. This has been my observations/experiences.I believe the following is true for many people in society.... magazines, runway models, strippers, music/movie/porn stars, people in a crowd and anyone else that is considered "hot" may make people (male or female) feel undesirable, unattractive and generally unwanted. I have close friends that suffered from bulemia because they felt inferior to these "people of beauty". The society we live in has a strong essence of "if you look good then you must be good". But, I must say, alot of us fall victim to it. Some examples that I am think we can all relate to are: 1 --- when I see a great looking guy or girl, I will do a double take purely based on looks (I am an animal after all)...it's the way it goes. 2 --- if I am done up for an evening and I think I look good and no one makes a positive comment, I will get a feeling of "I must be unattractive". 3 --- I have met people who will base who they hang with purely on how those people look. It's sad...there is so much more to people than this.The one thing I do love about most of the people I know/met is they take the intial glance a step further...not make snap judgements (and I have made snap judgements myself...guilty as charged). This step further is --- if I meet someone I like, I could give a shit what they look like, how much money they have, what they drive, etc. If they are genuine, then that's all I need and I want to hang with them. It makes me feel good to be surrounded by people who see me for who I am and like it (or dislike it, if need be) and I hope that I make them feel good too. There is more to life than muscles, hair and makeup (and I like these things too..but they are not the ultimate priority)!Now, this being said, I do not consider myself some sort of godess. Anyone who knows me knows this. Looks wise, I am average but I do like to try to look good --- do my hair, put on a little makeup and dress nicely. I am shallow this way and I can accept that. It took a long time for me to realize that the first thing I should worry about is what I think of myself...what others think of me comes secondary. I like to believe I have some very excellent qualities...and I think that it is these qualities my friends and loved ones have come to enjoy the most about me. I know....easier said than done!!!Ok....I am done.....boy can I yap!!!Bah, easy to say, your a hottie ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewel44317 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by blueangel: Do you know the rate of anorexia and bulimia is rising every day? Because young girls out there "BELIEVE" in all the glamour and "thin is beautiful" slogan that Victoria Secret and Miss Teen magazine spits out everyday. Do you know the violence among young men are also rising because of crime? Cause every rap video out there has men driving $200,000 sports cars, wearing five different 40K necklaces, and sitting next to a beautiful girl with a DD breast!!Not be scared of THEIR dark sides??!! Be scared be VERY scared. Cause this ignorance that you're talking about is very alive and living today. It's on every television channel, in every video, and on every magazine. These are the media that the children today and OUR children tomorrow is going to watch and learn from. So it has nothing to do with "if you're stuid enough to believe" but EVERYTHING to do with "children are naive enough to believe".BlueAngelWhen I originally responded to this thread, it was something I wasn't taking too seriously. You have really good points though, so I'd like to re-respond to this subject. Mother Teresa said, "America is one of the poorest cultures in the world." The gross accuracy of this statement is apparent in the rates of anorexia/bulemia and crime that you mention. While America is the richest country monetarily, our values, ethics, and morals have become deluded by images portrayed as to how we should FIND happiness (wish people would realize the answers lie within.) Without launching into what could really be a very long conversation, I think this speaks to the fact that so many people lead unfulfilled lives, and use whatever means they can to get a hold on as temporary "fixes" for their emptiness. This is why some people use girlfriends as trophies, only wear Gucci, Armani, et al, and find themselves unable to stop taking ECSTASY, etc. etc. I totally agree with you, BlueAngel...and what you said about our kids being influenced by these images speaks to the point of where I believe the roots of these problems lie: families are falling apart. Without stable families to give unconditional love, safety, and guidance, children have no foundation on which to base their identities, so they let *other* people tell them who they are and who they SHOULD be. Seriously, this discussion can not, and should not be had on a Club Planet thread...points get misinterpreted b/c its very hard to put in writing. I'm always up for *real* conversation though, so if u want to continue, just PM me.Julie------------------"Spontaneity is the key to spice in life" "Music makes the world go 'round...so keep it spinnin!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichi_gami Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by artful: Your mom... ummm your mom is...... your mom's so dumb, she gave birth to you!!! Ahahahahaha.... take that!!Can't fuck with that shit........ I got the ill material......... got you all speechless I know.......... don't get me started.LOL --------joker laugh------------Oh, SNAP! wait wait I got it...umm, wait, no hold on. Damn. I'll think of something.Oh yeah, your mom is so -- oh fuck you said that. I'll get back to you. I'll own you by the end of this thread. -------------------All the board's a stage, and all the men but players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyco Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Well, I had a comment about the topic at hand but I will let that wait to comment on all this mess.......basically, I agree and disagree with many people that have commented so I refuse to single out anyone.......especially after seeing the short-tempers going on here.......what I will say is that all this shit is quite disturbing......basically because it is seemingly a personal dispute, which is fine, but I feel too many people have become involved that are outside the situation.......anyway, I'm neutral in that sense but I will say what I originally wanted to say in terms of the original post......if anyone still cares.............foremost(going back to before the drama), what the hell is wrong with knowing that you have something valuable (whether it be a girl, a car, good looks, a good personality) and using it to your advantage?? I mean, isn't that what life is all about in so many different ways? --> "Survival of the fittest" Now I agree some people go too far at times but from a global perspective, everyone has something unique and special about them that is usable to gain the respect of others........maybe these traits are very different and gain the respect of different types of people but it all is the same.......Okay, to make it clear let me compare a professional painter to a beautiful model.......both have special things about them that allow them to gain the respect of others.......the model may gain from adoring men/women and the painter from art-lovers but what difference does it make......point being, they both use what they are blessed with to gain some respect........moreover, in the same way people are beautiful naturally, being a good painter is something that comes naturally and is only enhanced by one's dedication to it.......same can be said for beauty......To generalize this, why is only "beauty" being targeted here as being equated with respect.......yea sure, beauty does equal respect for many people and it is sad at times, I agree......BUT, isn't respect earned in a multitude of other ways........can we all say that some people don't get respect for their "strong" personalities or talents - even if they are not beautiful.......I know I respect people with overwhelming personalities but I would never think of resenting these people because they use it as their tool for progression........in my eyes, that is called envy.........envious people end up going backwards in life.......I guess my main point here is that in this bashing of people who get respect for beauty, we forgot that respect is gotten in many other ways besides that and by not considering these things also, we're all just being partial and unfair in the midst of a half-assed argument......beauty is the most obvious trait "guilty" of gaining respect but it is far from the only one and I'm sure all of you who are looking down on and resenting those who are proud of their own or others' beauty do something in your own way to gain respect and that's not right......Just for the record, if I did have a beautiful girl or a beautiful car (which I don't) I would be very proud of them........at the same time, I would never flaunt them even though I don't think there is anything wrong with that.......(see artful's first post for the rest on that).......anything I said above has nothing to do with my current situation or reflects on my personal ways I just am trying to make this argument more valid and subjective and less biased as it seemingly is.........hope that makes sense.Mikey------------------"The silent dog is the first to bite..." - me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsadc69 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 The problem with what you've written, spoony, is that you don't understand that you're taking everything the wrong way. I personally don't care whether or not you're trying to impress anyone by being so cravenly PC, it's just that I don't think you would have responded in such a politically correct, OFF-TOPIC manner if you weren't trying to show everyone your benevolent side. It's fine if you agree with the larger, more "worldly" vision that this, and every other topic on this board, seems to achieve; and in doing so, blatantly take issue with apotheosis' (I will continue to use his handle and not his name, because I don't know him) labeling system or his car analogy. It just seems kinda fake when you take it in the other direction, attacking him for clearly delineating the way the male mind works. Sorry if some males on here object to that because they are too blind to recognize it in themselves, somewhere deep down inside, underneath the tough skin of years of learning how to kiss the world's ass. I don't give a shit whether or not it's right, whether males are all pigs or whatever blanket statements you and all the "ladies" want to throw into the fire. apotheosis stated his views - and backed them up - and now everyone on here is back with the "I knew it"s and the "I told you so"s, saying he has always been an asshole and this is just the newest example. Hey, again, I'll say it, I don't know the guy, and I'm not sticking my neck out for him, but he said more about the way the world really is, and in fewer words, than anyone else that's posted here can imagine. It's not a point of whether it should be that way or not; dolcemimi asked a question and apotheosis gave a succinct answer. Fine if spoony or BlueAngel or whoever is upset at the world for making it that way, but that's the way it is. There's so much idealism on this board it makes me sick to my stomach. It's always there, but it really reared its ugly head this time around. And let's clarify. I'm not defending apotheosis so much as I am attacking you. And not you (singular, spoonyD). More you (plural), meaning every single person who took offense to apotheosis' first post. Because every single person who did take offense has taken his post the wrong way. Simple as that. It might be degrading to be looked upon as a "trophy," to quote dolcemimi, but every single one of us walks around knowing that there's a difference in the way people will react to us depending on what we wear and who we're with and what we drive. It's true - even the prettiest of us is not merely a trophy, but even if we receive that label, it's not difficult to prove everyone else wrong. People who use the term trophy either (a) know that the person to which the term refers is too base or stupid to be considered for anything more than his or her looks, or ( make snap judgments and stick with them. ( people - and there aren't many out there - can be easily proven wrong, provided one has the maturity and competence to do so. (a) people are right, are mature, and are competent to use the term. Of course, I understand the the whole labeling conundrum is not a good thing, and I think that point has been beaten into the earth about 108 times, at my last count. So, in my last stab at being PC, I'll say that everyone has an inner beauty and it is a shame if his or her mental and personal faculties are disregarded in the world's ongoing obsession with looks. That's where it should stand. But that's not the point of my argument in the first place, nor was it the point of apotheosis' post, and that's why I'm so pissed off.~~------------------ "Happy the man, and happy he alone, he who can call today his own, he who, secure within, can say, 'Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have liv'd today'." - Horace"Be excellent to each other." - Rufus"Para no morir, tiene que bailar." - Ricky Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousss Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Holy shit.. Damn ppl are writing 5000 words essays here.. INSANE.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Oops. Double post! [This message has been edited by blueangel (edited 01-10-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Okay let me “TRY” to reiterate the initial point that apotheosis stated.“Both sides do it. Its the way the world works. How about steppin’ out of a new car, and getting mad props, I didnt buy a nice car for that reason, but I cant say I don’t enjoy that fringe benefit.As for girls, I find the "grade B" girls tend to have more of a personality than the infuckincredible ones.”Can you please explain to me how that’s making a point. Seriously. And I’m not really looking for an argument. I just want to see how you got a point out of that. Dolcemimi asked a question why certain people out there give “RESPECT” to people for just being beautiful (beautiful in the society’s eyes sense). And apotheosis comes back with this comment.And how about . . . “Grade A/B: I tend to notice that model-looking girls don’t seem to have much of a personality, why? Because males might be more attracted more by looks, therefore an incredibly hot girl doesn’t need much personality to get all the attention whereas a “grade B” girl learns how to have a very outgoing personality to get the attention she desires. We all do this. We compensate in other ways to get what we want.Not only is he degrading model-looking girls (cause HE IS), he’s also degrading the “Grade B” girls. What the hell is that?? That an average girl like myself works on my personality (like it’s some sort of a design) because I know I’m not a playmate?? And that all the beautiful girls out there don’t have any opinions, morals, or thoughts (cause that’s what makes up a personality). How about if I said I believe I’m Grade A? Are you gonna tell me that I’m not? Or tell me that I don’t have a personality??And here’s the classic statement . . .“We live in a materialistic society that judges you by the materialistic possessions you have.”This society believe it or not is made out of many. You can “CHOOSE” to live in that materialistic one if you so desire, or you can choose to live outside it. I, personally, live in a society where people don’t judge me on what I drive (Toyota Camery 1996) or how much I make (middle class) or where I shop my close (bargain hunter RIGHT HERE). But the society that I live in looks at me and who I am. I can go out to clubs raved out, not wearing any make-up, hair tied in one and still get MAD respect from people in that place. OR I can go to work looking plain and do a project well that my peers look at me with respect . . . OR be among friends (real friends) and family who are exactly as myself and have REAL respect for one another. Perhaps apothesis was speaking of the music/fashion/entertainment industry society cause he seems to be so good and making sure we all know exactly where he’s been, who he knows, and how important he is.But this society that apothesis is speaking of is not what the world is made out of therefore I don’t have to accept SHIT.And that is my point.BlueAngel------------------“Maturity is when you stop doing the things you make excuses for and stop making excuses for the things you need to do." -Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsadc69 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Some answers:1. "Could you please explain to me how [apotheosis is] making a point?" Sure. First he makes the car analogy. I understand that some are offended because he compares a living, breathing, "to be worshipped" woman to a car, but let's try to ignore that and look directly at the analogy. "Steppin out of a car and gettin mad props" is equal to, I suppose, walking around with a playmate on his arm. The respect, it's true, is different than what you may term respect, i.e. completing a project at work or whatever, but i automatically look at him different that a man who pulls up in a cab, dressed in shabby clothes You'll see it everywhere. People at clubs will let him cut the line, give him VIP passes. Granted, it's a different kind of respect, as I said before, but you have to agree that this is the case. 2. He is not degrading girls with good looks by saying that the ones he has met have little or no personality. I have had the same experience - I meet a gorgeous blonde on the arm of one of my friends, and I try to make conversation and it's like I'm talking to a brick wall. Just to cover my ass, I'm not saying that every beautiful girl is like this. But the ones with the looks generally don't have the smarts. Here's another good example: go to Columbia. It's right up the street, 116th and broadway, and look around. Chances are you will not see many "model-looking girls" in a few hours spent searching. But you will find many girls who are kind, and wonderful, who are very intelligent and have beautiful personalities. Conversely, go to a school like, I dunno, again, trying not to piss anyone off of course, Salve Regina in RI. Lots of rich, spoiled boys and girls living in Newport, who drive around daddy's Lexus RX300. Hot girls and guys, wherever you look. And try to make conversation - it's like a brick wall once again, with many of them. I know I'm being stereotypical. But you get the point. Which leads me into my next answer...3. You don't "work on your personality" consciously to improve your "grade." You do it unconsciously. You have no idea it happens, but I will admit that I have met many girls who I would not say are "A-list" in terms of beauty but are certainly A's in terms of personality. It gave me respect for them and made me attracted to them. And I've never met a really beautiful girl who had a slamming personality. Just doesn't happen. Show me a model with a great personality to boot, and I'll show you a surprised man - right here.4. And I have no idea if you're Grade A or not, whether you say you are or not. I've never seen you, nor met you, but if I did, I think I would be able to figure it out. As would most people on here.5. (Finally) It's fine for you that you live in this idealized world, where you drive your Toyota Camry and everyone is all lovey-dovey. But presumably you're on here because you like to go clubbing. Don't tell me you expect that same attitude as you pull up to Twilo late-night in your Toyota Camry, filled with four heinous-looking guys, dressed sloppily, expecting to get in without a hitch, unless, of course, you are in bed with the bouncers. It's fine that you might get mad respect (as you put it) once you get inside, but you will only get that respect once you prove yourself, which you have to do beyond external appearances. That what you look like has so much to do with everyone's first impression of you (and frankly, I include bouncers) speaks to the materialism that seeps out of every pore of this world. You can't avoid it, even though you stand there on your pedastal, trying to preach about your idealized world that probably isn't exactly as communal as you describe it. And if you step out of your Toyota Camry, all "raved out," in front of any club in New York, you'll quickly realize that you've just entered the part of your life that is grounded in materialism. Yes, there are centers of materialism, you're right, and New York is certainly one of them. Accept that. I do.All for now... ~~------------------ "Happy the man, and happy he alone, he who can call today his own, he who, secure within, can say, 'Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have liv'd today'." - Horace"Be excellent to each other." - Rufus"Para no morir, tiene que bailar." - Ricky Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueangel Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 I have pulled up in my Toyota Camery filled with four ravers and NEVER gotten shit from Sharon, who does the door. And that goes with saying that I haven’t slept with ANY bouncers in my life time. However, I have heard of many incidence about guys with beautiful girls pulling up in a limo at Twilo and getting dissed.So this idealized world of mine is VERY REAL. Lastly, I don’t stand on ANY on pedestal trying to preach any idealized theory at all. I’m simply stating the fact that you can choose to surround yourselves with materialistic people or you can choose not to. But I don’t have to accept anything that I don’t believe in. You might but I don't. Sorry.BlueAngel------------------“Maturity is when you stop doing the things you make excuses for and stop making excuses for the things you need to do." -Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxyroxy20 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by lmsadc69:Wow, you go home for a couple weeks and check back and see this.But before this turns into another one of those gay "stop fighting" posts, I'll end the sappiness right there.Because no matter how shitty of a guy everyone says he is (cuz I have never met him), apotheosis has a point, and everyone who attacks his point is taking the wrong angle. It's not a point of whether or not a person can be cool even if they're not good looking, or whether or not apotheosis can call a girl "grade a" or "grade b". I think his terminology was perfect. Everyone got what he meant - it's just some lame asshole decided to take offense to it, to make himself look like a sweet guy in front of all the "ladies" who read his posts. And then I hear people calling apotheosis fake for shit that has nothing at all to do with this topic. If you're a heterosexual guy, and you seriously take offense to the A/B thing (knowing of course that he was only referring to the way a woman looks outwardly and that the rating reflected in no way toward a woman as a whole) then I must say that's very fake as well. Because all men understand what he was saying and deep down understand that sort of a rating system - whether it's good or not, unfortunately.It's almost a faux pas to try to save the topic now after ez and shadow and apotheosis have destroyed it (which needed to be done, apparently) but it's just so obvious that while beauty doesn't necessarily afford respect, per se, it does lower the amount of effort a person needs to put into attracting others to him or herself. That doesn't mean that everyone who has good looks is out there to attract guys, or girls. SpoonyD said before that apotheosis was "strikingly naive to say something like 'an incredibly hot girl doesn't need much personality to get all the attention'. Like somehow all girls need to fulfill their lives is the attention of men." That, right there, is the essence of what everyone has been arguing about. Do you live in a cave? How can you call apotheosis naive and then go say something like that? It's fucked up! There's no substance at all! Think about it - there you are, sipping your drink at some bar, and in walks Jennifer Lopez. Are you going to say that heads would not turn, especially every guy's head in the entire place? Are you totally cracked out? And what's even more ridiculous is that you try to relate it to the big scheme of life, that girls should jockey for the attention of men. That's not what he said at all. In fact, it could be quite the opposite. I'm sure Jennifer Lopez, when she walks into your bar, doesn't need or want 50 guys staring at her. She can get that any time. But that doesn't change the fact that she gets attention. Just because she gets attention doesn't mean she is looking for it. You make no fucking sense. You should look at what you write. And stick to the fucking topic once in a while. Sorry I haven't, of course, but this topic has gone to shit by now anyway. It wasn't when you were kicking up dust.Until we meet again - flame on... ~~I do agree that apothesis point is taken the wrong way, I feel some ppl attacked him because he said the comments, if it was someone else it wouldn't be such a big deal as it turned out, so the attacks were personal, casue some of u dont like him. as far as the topic beauty=respect. no matter what u guys say u know its true. Society and all of us(no matter that some of u deny it) judge by looks. If someone ugly comes and tries to talk to u, u cant tell me that u guys r gonna say oh maybe he/she will have a nice personality so i am gonna talk to that person or date him/her, thats bull, appearance comes first then personality(what i mean by someone coming over to talk i mean in places to hook up). I am very picky when going out with someone and the first thing i go by is appearance, then personality. Society is about looks, riches, money and will always be like that in 20 centuries. Thats why being poor doesnt give u respect in society, yeah u have respect from friends/family, but not from the world, u'll be looked as down which isnt right, but its the truth. Thats why everyone wants better cars, houses, better clothes(name brand), more money, etc cause they will have more respect and ppl will look at u differently and u'll feel better cause of it. What apothesis said "'an incredibly hot girl doesn't need much personality to get all the attention'. is true, not matter how dumb a person is if the person is beautiful she/he will get all the attention. Personality always comes second. Yeah as u get to know that person if he/she has an ugly personality, then the person will become ugly in your eyes. I dont agree with how society is, but unfortuantley that the way it is and thats the way society made us, wanting to be beautiful, wanting better cars, houses, clothes, etc. ------------------aim: amafrk1amafrk1@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonyd Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 well, if your main complaint is my bashing apotheosis for statements he made that weren't necessarily associated with his response to the topic, then I'm guilty. But I don't care.I would do it in real life I'll do it here. I will assasinate people for being prejudiced assholes. He could have made his point without demeaning other people in the process. Upon being accused of comparing women to cars, he could have simply stated, "No, I was comparing people's response to someone driving a nice car to a similar response when walking with a beautiful woman. People tend to envy beautiful things and in this materialistic world, that envy often amounts to respect"I don't think his point was lost, he just made a complete ass of himself trying to defend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_high Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 LOL...you guys are all far too busy reading too much meaning in every post that comes along....------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missincognito Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 ugh- testosterone party I see. Guys- this is horrible. Can't we all just get along and agree to disagree?? ------------------ *~**~*~**~~ No man/woman is worth your tears... and the only one who would be- would never make you cry ~~**~*~**~*AIM MissIncognito13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsadc69 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by spoonyd:well, if your main complaint is my bashing apotheosis for statements he made that weren't necessarily associated with his response to the topic, then I'm guilty. But I don't care.I would do it in real life I'll do it here. I will assasinate people for being prejudiced assholes. He could have made his point without demeaning other people in the process. Upon being accused of comparing women to cars, he could have simply stated, "No, I was comparing people's response to someone driving a nice car to a similar response when walking with a beautiful woman. People tend to envy beautiful things and in this materialistic world, that envy often amounts to respect"I don't think his point was lost, he just made a complete ass of himself trying to defend it.Assassinate? Ouch. Hope that's hyperbole. And thanks for finally agreeing that apotheosis has a point, even if it was made in a strange way. My whole deal all along was not to defend him, but to push along his idea, as so many others have done as well, that in some way, beauty does garner a sort of respect. And blueangel, I know that you probably have no problem getting into Twilo at any time, day or night, but as I say, it's because you're "in bed" with the bouncers. Not "in bed" literally, but meaning that you know them, you are friends with them etc., making yourself an exception to the whole scenario I provided. I even accounted for that. But you will be judged by the way you look, what you wear, the way you act, etc... if you don't realize that, well... you're either very lucky or very naive. ~~------------------ "Happy the man, and happy he alone, he who can call today his own, he who, secure within, can say, 'Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have liv'd today'." - Horace"Be excellent to each other." - Rufus"Para no morir, tiene que bailar." - Ricky Martin[This message has been edited by lmsadc69 (edited 01-10-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkysoulbro Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by spoonyd:well, if your main complaint is my bashing apotheosis for statements he made that weren't necessarily associated with his response to the topic, then I'm guilty. But I don't care.I would do it in real life I'll do it here. I will assasinate people for being prejudiced assholes. He could have made his point without demeaning other people in the process. Upon being accused of comparing women to cars, he could have simply stated, "No, I was comparing people's response to someone driving a nice car to a similar response when walking with a beautiful woman. People tend to envy beautiful things and in this materialistic world, that envy often amounts to respect"I don't think his point was lost, he just made a complete ass of himself trying to defend it.You are such a fake motherfucker its funny!!! You know you don't really believe what your saying!! I know you know!! I can see right through you. It is so clear that you don't like apotheosis and you are using this post as an excuse to bash him. I would love to see you be this big in front of his face! It is easy to be the tough guy behind a computer screen. I was in a good mood today before i started reading the shit that you've been shoveling. You probably agree with apotheosis, which really pisses you off!!!! ------------------Fatboy Slim is Fucking in Heaven! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2basics- Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by lmsadc69: The way you look, the way you dress, and the way you act mean a whole lot in this world, and you can't have one without the others. ~~You may want to read that agin... it doen't make any sence.Anyway.. i think the point is that, we know 'That's the way it is'... and the reason 'thats the way it is' is because people STILL allow it to be that way. Just because 'that's the way it is'.. doen't make it right.There is a new thing called thinking OUTSIDE the box... it's a great concept. I don't think spoony or BlueAngel took it the wrong way, and i don't think apothesis had a point at all. He just put his opinion forward.. he was honest i will give him that. But he proved a point rather than made one. And he has time to explain what he really meant. Personally i think your just playing the game without questioning anything.. now that's up to you but nothing progresses if you think like that.'that's the way it is' or 'that's the way thing should be' it's your choice.<-- PC and proud.------------------I want to go out blazing..not fade away.I can STILL resist ANYTHING but temptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonyd Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 what the hell,I'm gonna get back in the frey.We've seen discussed the two worlds. One where people respect money, and another where people respect the person. I suppose I do believe both worlds exist and that it's up to each of us to choose what we value more. It says a lot about the person depending which camp they end up in.I just chose a lifestyle that's different, and surround myself with people that are different. If you want to bring looks into this. I think there are as many (if not more) "model quality" women who are 'real' as there are shallow mindless ones. It's about presentation and the desire to be noticed. Perhaps people with a little more depth have less need for other's approval.Perhaps dumb flashy girls are the only ones you notice because they are the only ones vying for your attention. Same goes for dumb flashy guys. They stick out because they put themselves out there. It's easy to make generalizations I suppose based on this.That kinda stuff just doesn't do much for me. I choose a different life for myself. It's a decision that runs deep. It affects who my friends are, the places I go, even my job. I don't think we can afford to be anything but idealistic in life. Otherwise what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsadc69 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 Originally posted by back2basics-: You may want to read that agin... it doen't make any sence.Anyway.. i think the point is that, we know 'That's the way it is'... and the reason 'thats the way it is' is because people STILL allow it to be that way. Just because 'that's the way it is'.. doen't make it right.There is a new thing called thinking OUTSIDE the box... it's a great concept. I don't think spoony or BlueAngel took it the wrong way, and i don't think apothesis had a point at all. He just put his opinion forward.. he was honest i will give him that. But he proved a point rather than made one. And he has time to explain what he really meant. Personally i think your just playing the game without questioning anything.. now that's up to you but nothing progresses if you think like that.'that's the way it is' or 'that's the way thing should be' it's your choice.<-- PC and proud.Yeah, I know that didn't make sense. I edited it but it still is kinda weird. Whatever.You can make some good points, good questions too, man... and think - you can even do it without being a sarcastic asshole. Whatever you called it - outside the box? Do I appear to be as uneducated as you make me out to be? Does it seem that I don't understand that questioning what is established is one of the greatest virtues of free speech? Because, sorry there, PC and proud, but I do understand it. The fact that I choose not to delve, at least in this topic, into the worldly idealism that you and others preach does not mean that I cannot think "outside the box," as you put it. You're right... nothing does progress by not questioning... but who said we were out trying to change the world? Christ, somehow this became the "heal the world" topic. That's the way it is? vs. That's the way things should be? Ok, fine. We'll play this game. This topic has left my hands. I thought we were having an intelligent debate. Instead here we are trying to save the human race from the tyranny of materialism and the nature of men.I quit. There's nothing left to say.~~------------------ "Happy the man, and happy he alone, he who can call today his own, he who, secure within, can say, 'Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have liv'd today'." - Horace"Be excellent to each other." - Rufus"Para no morir, tiene que bailar." - Ricky Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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