Are all the dick in NYC circumcised ???

[blueangel]

Originally posted by lmsadc69:

business - i never said porn is real. please reread. i said porn sets up an aesthetic ideal - like you said, a fantasy.

aesthetic: adj. Of or concerning the appreciation of beauty or good taste; characterized by a heightened sensitivity to beauty.

Porn MAY be used as a fantasy for some people but not all and it surely is not used to characterize beauty by all people either. To use porn as an aesthetic is (and yes, this is JUST my opinion) naive. And what's more naive is to judge what looks better . . . especially since you've never seen both penis before. Come one . . .how can you say what looks good or what looks funny when you haven't seen both and given both the equal chance. That's just plainly naive.

Originally posted by lmsadc69:

also note that my remarks were intended more to point out the way others (and one person in particular) ride around on their "high horses." please consider me the imp that slashes the legs of the horse so its rider tumbles to the ground, instead of a rider of a high horse myself. also, finally - and i just couldn't leave it alone - i am the absolute LAST person who would ever take offense to the ricky martin "gay" joke. it served your purpose well, and so i applaud its usage. but you better watch your back. blueangel is around here somewhere...

What gave you the impression that I ride around in a high horse? Which comment of mine did that? Can you point out? I'm just curious.

Which ever the case may be . . . my opinion of curcumsized and non-curcumsized dicks is my own. Like I said before, when they're awake they all look like. YOU CAN'T TELL EM' APART! And THAT is what's important to women . . . who cares what they look like when they're asleep! As a woman, I sure don't.

As for you being the imp to bring down people who "supposedly" ride around in their high horse . . . sweetie, try again. I really have absolutely NO idea as to what you're talking about. And if that comment was not meant for me . . then I apologize it just seemed like it was.

BlueAngel

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“I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.” — Booker T. Washington

[This message has been edited by blueangel (edited 04-02-2001).]

[ken2a]

I recently read an outstanding book on the circumcision/foreskin topic entitled, Sex As Nature Intended It, by Kristen O'Hara.

www.SexAsNatureIntendedIt.com

The book presents clear, logical evidence that the foreskin has a purpose--a sexual purpose--and that male circumcision adversely affects the sexuality of not only the man, but also his female partner. It discusses sex, love, and relationship happiness from a new and surprising perspective: How does the surgical alteration of the penis in infancy --circumcision -- affect the sexuality of a man when he becomes an adult? What effect does his altered penis have on the sexual pleasure of his female partner? And how does sexual pleasure during intercourse -- or a deficiency thereof -- affect the love bond in a relationship?

Sex As Nature Intended It is the first book to detail the many sexual functions and benefits of the male foreskin for both the man and his female partner. It presents unequivocal evidence that the foreskin plays a definite, delicate, vital role during intercourse that not only promotes increased sexual pleasure, but this enhanced pleasure also serves to enrich and continually re-cement the love bond, borne from sexual union.

Circumcision's removal of the foreskin -- ultra-erogenous tissue and the penis's only moving part --not only diminishes the man's sexual pleasure, but also the woman's. A national survey of women, conducted by the author, reveals that circumcision abnormalizes the way the penis thrusts and feels to a woman, and significantly diminishes her sexual enjoyment and her ability to achieve orgasm from intercourse.

The book's explanation of the profound negative effect circumcision has on the intercourse experience of both partners will surely leave America stunned. But luckily, there is a bright side to this shocking news. It is now possible to restore the foreskin through various non-surgical techniques. In the course of addressing this topic, the book enwraps the emerging foreskin restoration movement with hope, promise, and dignity.

I found the book captivating to read and very informative. It conveys a powerful message that is destined to capture our national consciousness. I recommend it very highly.

For more information about the book, visit its website at http://www.SexAsNatureIntendedIt.com

Sincerely, Ken Avery

[xkingchangox]

I must put my 2 cents into this.First I am not circumcised and from my experience I have been told by past and present women that for them it works better and some of them I would even deem converts.As for hispanic people we all do speak a variant of catellano(spanish from spain) however in different parts of latin america there are terms and phrases that in common translation would mean the same however in context they do not.Additionally mexicans,puerto-rico,guatemalans,spaniards and argentines do have a variant of the language in common however not much in the way of cultural similarity.Oh by the way Ricky Martin is not mexican he is puerto-rican.

[chadc]

I was snipped at birth but regret it...I feel that it all comes to what you see most often, and in the States where this procedure is done almost routenely most females have become acustom to it. Something totaly new and different will get mixed reviews upon first encouter but I still think the oposite is MUCH better

[doctor_zero]

I don't remember being circumcised. Can't say that it affected me in anyway.

[ken2a]

Photos of Normal Intact Men

http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Gallery1.html

"How the Foreskin Works" (Moving Graphics)

http://www.circumstitions.com/Works.html

"The Foreskin Is Necessary" (Mothering Magazine, Winter, 1997)

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html

"What Is Lost?"

http://www.norm-socal.org/lost.html

Video of Infant Undergoing Partial Amputation of Penis

http://www.intactcanada.org

Fifteen Square Inches of Highly Erogenous Genital Tissue

http://www.circumstitions.com/Notjustaflap.html

http://www.noharmm.org/snip.htm

Historical Medical Quotes on Circumcision"

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com

The Journal of Social History (1994)

http://www.cirp.org/library/history/gollaher/

Every mutilation is "botched," although some are more "botched" than others.

http://www.circumstitions.com/Botched1.html

"Whose Body, Whose Rights?" (Award-Winning Video)

http://www.noharmm.org/wbwr.htm

Doctors Opposing Circumcision

http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC

http://www.informedconsent.org/circumcision.html

http://www.drjaygordon.com/links/circ.htm

Letter to the Calgary Herald by Dr. John Taylor, Pathologist

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/stories/010306/5049503.html

Interview With Dr. John Taylor

http://www.intactcanada.org/taylor.html

[ken2a]

circopath = someone with genital-cutting syndrome.

there is no pathology in the tissue; the pathology

is in the mind of the circumciser.

[flying_high]

Originally posted by chadc

I was snipped at birth but regret it...I feel that it all comes to what you see most often, and in the States where this procedure is done almost routenely most females have become acustom to it. Something totaly new and different will get mixed reviews upon first encouter but I still think the oposite is MUCH better

I actually found it quite amusing to see that topic back again...but now, I do actually have a question: I'm aware of the religious reasoning behind it and somehow of the way it is done. My question here is rather directed towards the "American way" of doing it. Do you mean that when a child is born in the hospital, the cut is done as a normal" procedure of childcare??? Are the parents asked in that matter or how does it work? The entire subject is unbelievable and somehow shocking to me, cause I find it very disturbing if the reasoning behind it is supposed to be "hygiene". I mean if you can't teach your child to take care of his/her body and make the cleansing of the body an important part of it, then there is something wrong, I think. So, please...shed some light here cause I'm totally in the dark

[lisarose]

Yep, In American hospitals it is just done without much discussion about it whatsoever... I think just recently did people actually start questioning it.

[ken2a]

"Circumcision makes women cleaner, promotes virginity and chastity and guards young girls from sexual frustration by deadening their sexual appetite." Mrs. Njeri, a defender of female genital mutilation in Kenya.

"Of course I shall have them circumcised exactly as their parents, grandparents and sisters were circumcised. This is our custom." An Egyptian woman, talking about her young daughters.

References:

"Doctor and Supermodel Debate Female Circumcision"

http://www.pitt.edu/~cdhst16/waris.html

Female Circumcision Defended

http://www.africa2000.com/RNDX/femcirc2.html

"Is There A Difference?"

http://www.members.home.net/pshano/circumcision.html

Criminal Assault?

http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/boyle1/

Male Infant C. is "Torture"

http://www.intactcanada.org/newsrel.htm

"Where Sex and Violence First Meet"

http://www.birthpsychology.com/violence/baker.html

"No Trivial Matter"

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/stories/010306/5049503.html

Hanny Lightfoot-Klein

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/third/hanny3.html

The Journal of Social History (1994)

http://www.cirp.org/library/history/gollaher/

FGM data page

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm

A Violation of Basic Human Rights

http://www.icgi.org/Downloads/Humanist.pdf

"The Profoundly Disturbing and Explosive Facts."

http://www.math.missouri.edu/~rich/MGMprimer.html

Article by Paul Fleiss, MD (Mothering magazine,

Winter, 1997)

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html

"The Lost List" http://www.norm-socal.org/docs/

The Ridged Band http://research.cirp.org

Involuntary Circumcision: The Legal Issues

http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/vanhowe5

Please visit: http://www.SexAsNatureIntendedIt.com. Sex As Nature Intended It: The Most Important Thing You Need to Know About *Making Love* But Nobody Could Tell You Until Now. The outstanding new book by Kristen O'Hara. Afterword by George C. Denniston, MD, President of D.O.C. (Doctors Opposing Circumcision). The Web address for D.O.C. is http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC

Thank You.

One Woman's View:

"If I talk to women about circumcision and they don't seem to get it, then I make it personal. Sometimes I tell a story. (This probably works best woman to woman.) I'll tell them to: -

Imagine that you are admitted to a hospital for some minor surgery. On waking up from the anesthesia, you realize that your inner labia and the hood over your clitoris have been cut off.

When you confront your doctor, he explains that the tissue that was removed was "redundant" and not necessary for sexual functioning.

He goes on to say that you will be much easier to clean and have less odor, there will be less chance of infection, and he felt that you would look "better", more aesthetic.

He says that when he told all of the "risks" and "benefits" to your family, they gave informed consent for the procedure.

How would you feel?

Now imagine that you were awake and resisting, but they did it anyway.

If they don't get it right away, they usually will later, when they are alone."

- Susan Peer

Parents of Intact Sons

[ken2a]

Attorneys for the Rights of the Child

2961 Ashby Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94705

Fax/phone 510-595-5550 Email arc@post.harvard.edu

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 15, 2001

CONTACT: J. Steven Svoboda, Esq., 1-510-595-5550

Attention: Health Editor

United Nations Criticized for Sex Discrimination Against Males

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND-The United Nations and its Sub-Commission on the

Promotion and Protection of Human Rights were sharply criticized yesterday

by two human rights organizations for discrimination against males in the

enforcement of human rights. Speaking on behalf of the National Organization

of Circumcision Information Resource Centers and Attorneys for the Rights of

the Child, J. Steven Svoboda, Esq., a Harvard-educated human rights lawyer,

noted that while a panoply of protections for women and girls has been

instituted including aggressive programs to stop female genital mutilation

(FGM), male circumcision has never even been studied by any United Nations

body including the Sub-Commission.

Svoboda demanded that the Sub-Commission explain why Sub-Commissioner Mrs.

Halima Embarek Warzazi, previously its Special Rapporteur on Traditional

Practices Affecting Women and Children, was now barred from considering

traditional practices' effects on male children.

Svoboda commented that everywhere that FGM occurs, male circumcision also

takes place, adding that male circumcision occurs six times for every time

FGM occurs. "Some day," Svoboda told the United Nations, "we will come to

understand the misguided nature of our attempts to explain why any violation

of female genitals is criminal while a comparable, serious, extremely

painful, and disfiguring alteration of male genitals is permissible. The

best way to do justice to the rights of the child is to do no harm, to let

it enjoy life in every aspect and to protect it and to love it. When the

child is of the age of consent, he or she can make up his or her own mind

about his or her own body. "

Svoboda called the United Nations' attention to the fact that the Parliament

of Sweden recently voted decisively, 249 to 10, in favor of new legislation

which regulates male circumcision and in its preliminaries also ordered a

study to determine what effect the new law will have and whether male

circumcision should be considered a human rights violation. Many Swedish

Members of Parliament stated that male circumcision violates children's

rights.

Svoboda commented that human rights professor Jacqueline Smith of the

Netherlands Institute of Human Rights has also emphasized the importance of

protecting males as well as females from circumcision. Svoboda also called

the Sub-Commission's attention to the fact that Ms. Gay J. McDougall, its

own expert on systematic rape and sexual slavery, stressed that human rights

must protect both males and females from all forms of sexual assault.

Svoboda called the Sub-Commission's attention to the disfigured genitals and

deaths which are regularly caused by male circumcision wherever it is

practiced, in the United States, in the developing world, or elsewhere. He

recounted the story of David Reimer, whose penis was entirely burned off, as

has since been documented on television and in a best-selling book. Reimer

was raised and surgically "reassigned" as a girl but his life and the lives

of everyone in his family were catastrophically altered. Svoboda quoted an

August 1 article in the New York Times reporting that 35 boys have already

died this year in South Africa alone from circumcisions. Ten percent or more

of initiates have been left with no penis or a "disfigured stump."

Svoboda testified that every single national medical association that has

examined the issue has failed to find medical benefits which can justify

routine removal of healthy tissue from a non-consenting infant. Regarding

religion, Svoboda stated that for boys and girls alike, under basic human

rights principles, another's right to practice a religion must end where

that individual's body begins.

###

[pookie23]

Where in the blue hell did this thread come from?!?!?

[ken2a]

It's been floating around for some time. Are you new here? Ken.

http://onramp.uscom.com/~ur12/circchildabuse.html

John M. Foley, MD describes his observations: "The circumcision of a newborn boy is a spectacle so appalling and revolting in its cruelty that, on their first encounter with the ordeal, many robust medical students faint. The infant's arms and legs are tied down securely spread-eagled onto a molded Circumstraint Board, with his genitals exposed. The foreskin opening in a newborn is normally very small, to prevent entry of foreign matter. The first stage of circumcision is to grasp the foreskin with forceps and widen this opening. Since the foreskin is attached to the glans by a still developing membrane called the synechia this requires the foreskin and synechia to be torn apart. Naturally this is excruciatingly painful and the infant screams in terror and pain. Next, ignoring the infant's trauma, forceps are used to pull the entire foreskin and much of the penile shaft skin through a clamp, the clamp's screw is tightened and left in place for several minutes for crush to take place. The tissue is then slit and trimmed with a scalpel. From 50% to as much as 80% of the total penile skin is removed. In this country anesthetics are rarely used, they are considered unnecessary. The infant frantically struggles and screams and often vomits and defecates, before lapsing into unconsciousness." From which some never recover. The doctor then bills from $150.00 to $500.00 for his abnormalizing accomplishment. Medicaid pays $150.00. Circumcision and the commercial selling of foreskins is a lucrative billion dollar a year industry in the U.S. Several American companies use processed foreskins to manufacture medical products.

[djkuz]

o yes. and for the ones who are not, i suggest you go out and get it done.

[ken2a]

Very few people volunteer for this sort of thing. That's why they do it to helpless infants.

I think it's an evil practice. Anyone who does this to a child is one sick puppy and should be locked up. Ken.

[serzh]

My dick wasn't abused by some fat grandpa with a scalp and that feeling comforts me! There is no advantage of a circumsized dick, so why do it? Some girls in US are sometimes surprized when they unzip my pants, but damn! It's still a dick!!!

[nightgroover]

Hey Ken thanks for that. I am feelin really good now, because all the girls I have been talking too about that topic found the circumcised ones more appealling.

So: I AM NOT CIRCUMCISED AND I AM NOW PROUD OF IT.

To that the female world will benefit from it! As well as I hopefully will

[mjr203]

damn straight.

-MJR

Rule Brittania

Originally posted by back2basics-

Thats just British guys, nothing to do with being cut or not....

so i hear.

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I want to go out blazing..not fade away.

Trust in the currency of relationships, it's hard to earn but easy to loose - back2basics

[This message has been edited by back2basics- (edited 03-29-2001).]