The Enemy we're up against (long, but so worth it)

[cazz926]

I really liked this...it came from my friend's professor at school.

Interesting and important perspective for sure...

Dear Friends,

The following was sent to me by my friend

Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is also one of themost brilliant people I know in this life. When he writes, I read.

When he talks, I listen.

Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole

mess we are in.

Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to

the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage.

What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised

especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived

here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a

cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997.

Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban,think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.

They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and

clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and

overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.

A few years ago, the United Nations estimated

that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.

There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons

why the Afghan people have not overthrown the

Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.

Make the Afghans suffer? They're already

suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off frommedicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans,they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once

again the people they've been raping all this time

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And

not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.

Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program.

That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements.

It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can

polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden

does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary

[tribal]

i agree with this writer. the problem is the CIA fucked up back in the 80s when they gave stingers and other weapons to the taliban. if the soviets did invade and conquer that wasteland, there would be some level of order and authority. yes its not democracy, but its more or less western approach, with civilized foundations, not the shit thats happening over there right now. second, a ground invasion is inconceivable, the russians did this, im russian, i know of the difficulties involved in that region, the terrain, the people, the misery, the casualties. that stretch of land has never fully been conquered, not by Macedon, not by Alexander the great, Caesar or Russia. the only clear solution is to establish a central organization of all nations that are anti-terrorism. and not half way anti - terrorist, but all the way, black or white, no bullshit. this war will be more of a special forces and assassination type of war than a conventional approach. this means more funding for Rainbow Six -type groups, intelligence enhancement and other such operations. air strikes wont do shit, these people live like animals, so they behave like ones.

[sassa]

This was a good article..I wish more people could read it and actually comprehend what is says.

[cazz926]

Originally posted by sassa

This was a good article..I wish more people could read it and actually comprehend what is says.

You got that right. We can't really just go bombing a country, a country is not nec. the enemy. It's certan factions that are our enemy.

[cazz926]

Originally posted by tribal

i agree with this writer. the problem is the CIA fucked up back in the 80s when they gave stingers and other weapons to the taliban. if the soviets did invade and conquer that wasteland, there would be some level of order and authority. yes its not democracy, but its more or less western approach, with civilized foundations, not the shit thats happening over there right now. second, a ground invasion is inconceivable, the russians did this, im russian, i know of the difficulties involved in that region, the terrain, the people, the misery, the casualties. that stretch of land has never fully been conquered, not by Macedon, not by Alexander the great, Caesar or Russia. the only clear solution is to establish a central organization of all nations that are anti-terrorism. and not half way anti - terrorist, but all the way, black or white, no bullshit. this war will be more of a special forces and assassination type of war than a conventional approach. this means more funding for Rainbow Six -type groups, intelligence enhancement and other such operations. air strikes wont do shit, these people live like animals, so they behave like ones.

It's true, we need to be more educated on foreign policy. And you are right, air strikes won't do shit but make some Americans FEEL better.

[Xpander]

Originally posted by cazz926

It's true, we need to be more educated on foreign policy. And you are right, air strikes won't do shit but make some Americans FEEL better.

It's a shame...

But unfortunately...war, air strikes or otherwise, seems to be where we're heading fast...

[xtcgirlie]

Originally posted by cazz926

Thank you for posting this***

[Guest saleen351]

I don't think so....

It is easy to read a very well written, a very inteiligent article, but he is missing the point....ONE we are not the Soviet Union...The country that attacked AFGAN for 10 years doesn't even exist any more....We are far supieror to the British who lost there twice...The talabon took over in 97 but the country was attacked and attacked and attacked well before that............WHY??? Like he said and I'll quote him " Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that" Why did the British and the USSR go in and fight a losing war for so long??? Not a oil issue there...Not a land issue...Not a religous problem...Then why??????? I'll fucking tell you why, they are bad, bad ppl...they have been engaging in these activites for a very long time...They blame their problems on other countries...The even put in there national budget a journal entry for Terroism....... Don't belive then I guess 60 minutes is Wrong! Bombing will work.....Two great example from history to all of you...

Germany and Japan....

WE had to drop the bomb or America may be vastly differnet today...

We will drop the "bomb" again....(not nuclear bomb but a freedom bomb to all the AFAGANS such as your self)

I'm sorry about your country, but my neighbor is DEAD! .....Afgan has had problem well before the Talaban...............One of the last lines in a GReat movie was this..............."Hal we did the right thing!!!!"

NO we didn't, we were suppose to fight for people who can't fight for them selves..........(A few good Men)

we will fight for the ppl of AFGAN and get rid of the TALABAN....Then the ppl will rise up and form a strong united goverment that is reconize by more then 3 countries........... This is the only way it can be........We need to give the good ppl of AFGAN the tools, the know how, the sprite and the comitment of the Western Democracys to help win their freedom just like our grandfathers won ours...........

[JonStephen]

What you guys are saying about invading is true. Air strikes won't work and invading will be costly and has often failed. One thing you are forgetting about.....This war is not going to be the US versus Taliban, it looks like this war is going to be West versus Islamic Fundamentalism. What that means is there are going to be far more troops and far more intelligence being used than we could provide ourselves. True this war is going to be hard to handle, but what war isn't.

Have faith.......This isn't going to be Vietnam where no one is going to be supportive including our own, we have a good supporting cast working with us.

[Guest saleen351]

Oh and I forgot a pt. or two..

Pakistan totaly caved and is letting us do what ever...Why??? Its called FEAR!!!! They fear us!!!! Its either pakistan and afgan or just afgan. They made a great decision...The know Amercia would let nothing happen to them if they helped... So you are wrong!

Guld WAR

The ground war lasted (if I remeber right) 72 hours,,,and we took out the (if I remeber right) the 6 largest standing army on the planet..........Thats 3 days!!!!!!!!! The allies only lost 300 or 400 men and women!!!!!!!! You talk of years and millions of ppl....don't play the fear factor...As a citizen and a register draftee with the most powerful nation on earth, I know you know nothing about America and I fell you should leave!!!!!!!!

We concoured Pakistan in 48 hours with a fucking Fax machine with a list of demands!!!!!!!!!!

Let me ask you this would you go fight for America against the AFgans since you've been here for 35 years???Probaly not....So you bask in the sunshine of freedom that my grandfathers sacrificed for and you would do nothing for America...

You wouldn't even be able to write your article if it wasn't for my grandfathers...One fighting the Japs and the other against the Nazis......

[Xpander]

No better than the terrorists, it seems....

Well now, here's another clear example of the mentality that caused Tuesday to happen in the first place.

[t0nythelover]

The Afghani people are not to blame, but there is the question of harboring terrorist. But don't expect the Afghani people to help us fight, we told the kuwaiti's we'd help them fight saddam hussein. we armed them, but then left them to be slaughtered, we haven't done our part. the u.s. figured if they ignored this problem it would go away. its time for an armed invasion, i'll see you all on the frontlines.

[kkeot]

I can't say I really see us doing a direct invasion on afghanistan.

I can't really see that making much sense considering. Were more likely to rachet up our defenses in the US and abroad and change our lifestyles to make things safer (ie: more searches, deport more foreig nationals, safer guidelines on airplanes). Any war we get into is going to be more on the international scene we'll need to rachet up out intelligence networks and stamp out these organizations around the world. Attacking the taliban directly or just doing air strikes would just be more likely to create martyrs and push more people over into fanatacism.

I think the real problme is that our entire forign policy in the

middle east is entirely flawed I mean we support all kinds of

regimes that are basicly dictators ships. Lots of oil rich nations

squander their money and only allow the very rich to have any

political power. Now obvously tha doesn't justify any terrorism,

but when we look to stamp out these kind of terrosits networks

around the world you have to wonder about some of our forign

policy choices. I mean we don't support any of the democ4ratic

movements in any of our allies in the middle east. As much as we

complain about the taliban no one complains about the lack of

political freedom Saudi Arabia or AOE, or how the top 2 or 3%

hoold the vast majority of the wealth in those countires. Or the

human rights abuses that go on in our allies. Now I'm not saying

that we shouldn't attack asama bin laden, but we can't imagine

that is going to solve the problems of terrorism only a sustained

focus, a profound change to our lifestlyes and an honest

examination of our foriegn policy will really accomplish that goal.

[loch]

let me preface this by saying that i believe that a sustained, well-intelligenced and strategically targeted use of military force focused on identifiable agressors is necessary in response to what has happened. war, unfortunately, is a necessary evil.

to all the nay-sayers that say "war is not the answer--give peace a chance"; well, any reasonable person would try to adopt peaceful resolutions first. however, such idealism (peace) does not always work, especially not in this case, when the enemy, according to its manifests, has clearly declared war on america and its citizens. i can go on about this, but it is not the point of my post.

that having said, to all the "overzealous-macho-arrogant-misplaced-patriotism-guns-ablazin-ignorant-misinformed-propaganda-believin-trigger-happy-nuke-the-entire-ethnic-group-and-their-country-and-categorically-make-widesweeping-generalizations-and-racist-remarks-all-caps-writing-with-multiple-exclamation-points" posters on CP:

GET A FUCKING CLUE. GAIN some perspective. KNOW your facts. QUESTION what you are told. RESEARCH the issues. BE INFORMED of the causes & effects. REALIZE the consequences & repercussions. REASON.

i don't claim to know everything because i will admittedly say i don't. but i do claim to reason. i do hope and quite optimistically believe that they have so far, that our government do the same.

greatness is the ability to entertain a thought without actually considering it (aka reason). we all should do the same. God bless not just America, God bless HUMANITY.

[cazz926]

Bravo Loch, i couldn't have said it better myself. We can't let our anger blind us into doing the wrong thing. There should def. be retribution, but thought-out retribution, and I think that is why George W. is waiting

[loch]

cazz, i'm glad that there are still a few out there with a semblance of rationale and reason.

it infuriates me not because there are opposing views, but the fact that these views offer NO sound arguments other than, "fuck 'em."

[chris817]

Originally posted by loch

cazz, i'm glad that there are still a few out there with a semblance of rationale and reason.

it infuriates me not because there are opposing views, but the fact that these views offer NO sound arguments other than, "fuck 'em."

very well said

I had no idea there were so many smart people on this board. JK