Interesting article by an Israeli paratrooper

[tribal]

this guy was one of some 200 israeli soldiers who signed a petiition against serving the territories. very well written. I dont wholly agree with the refuseniks, but this story is very touching.

----------------------------

That night, I was a bit drunk. We sat around drinking in honor of Daniel who came all the way from France and made aliyah so he could faithfully serve the country, the army and Tali the female military social worker. We uncorked a Johnny Walker that Tali’s brother gave her, and we were listening to the Doors while smoking some hashish. You can’t be a real Nahal Corps soldier without drinking Johnny Walker, listening to the Doors, or smoking hashish. And the select few partake in all three… We’d just gotten back from Lebanon, and after a week of R&R we were sent right to the territories, to Gaza.

There’s no place like Gaza. With its blue sea and excellent hummus which even if you include a ton of pita bread, cracked olives and French fries won’t cost you more than 10 shekels, you’d even get back some change. Let me tell you about these Gazan olives. First of all, they are the most bitter ones in the entire world. Gaza people say that the olives get their bitterness from life in the Gaza strip. From the pressure of our occupation and the previous one and the one before that. And not only are these olives bitter, they can also drive you crazy with their saltiness. And that is because of the tears of the Gaza women. Tears they shed in the olive groves seep through into the olives.

The women of Gaza were the true heroes. While the men were busy tending to the miseries of life and looking for ways to liberate themselves from this or that occupation, the women were busy taking care of the kids, preparing the food and working in the groves. In the groves they had quality time. All alone there, they cried for their youth and for their dreams; for the sons who were killed or sent to prison, or for the sons who will be killed or will be sent to prison.

And the olives – they took it all in, which – contrary to general opinion – made them taste great and go very well with Whisky. Suddenly I thought about my mother who doesn’t sleep at night.

I tried to explain to her that all we did was drink Whisky and eat cracked olives. But she didn’t believe me, my mother, and began to cry.

She said she was scared. That she had bad dreams. Mom and her dreams. I told her not to worry and not to cry because if she did, the water in the Israeli aquifer would get salty and it would be her fault. This is what happened in Gaza and that’s why they are oppressed and occupied. It did not help, though. There’s no one like mom.

Tali said that Jim Morrison was King and started dancing. She was so beautiful, Tali! With her direct manners and her flat stomach and her breasts with the nipples that stood up like two small hills in the prairie. Daniel joined her and they kissed. I sat by myself and thought how Daniel was a victim of life. A human being whose life got screwed up and no one was paying attention.

Last week, during the demonstration near the green Mosque, Daniel accidentally fired some shots into the crowd and some pregnant Gaza woman was killed. I ran to her trying to provide some help, but she was already dying. She gave me a sad look and had tears in her eyes. She had a fifth month belly, and I knew she’d lost the baby. She was bleeding heavily from the abdomen and it took me a while to insert the IV and start the transfusion. Then she died at 6:00PM. Roni, the MD, and I began to cry. Manny, the driver, mumbled that she was just an Arab. Dead, so what? But he too was sad and I could see he was having a hard time with it. I kissed him on his forehead and told him to drive to headquarters. No one said a word to Daniel.

There was an investigation and it was decided that this had been a mistake. An accidental bullet. But no one talked to Daniel. I told Roni that Daniel needs some time off, that we need to talk to him, that he seemed strange. But Roni was busy and we were all busy: there were more demonstrations and more people got killed and I felt as if I was slowly going crazy. They taught us to fire our rifles, to set up ambushes, jump from an airplane, carry our gear, run, fall, run again. They forgot to teach us to talk, cry, forgive ourselves. Daniel looked at Tali, gave her another kiss, and said that he was stepping out for a second to take a leak.

I asked him if he wanted some company. Nah, he said, stay here and keep and eye on Tali for me. I stayed with Tali.

After a minute, we heard a shot.

-Tal Belo (Staff Sgt. IDF Armored Corps)

[magilicuti]

yes, next question

[karch]

Tribal that's some pretty good shit. Nice story. Very sobering

[sonicinfusion]

FUCK ISRAEL AND FUCK PALESTINE!!

Im sick of both!!

Both are fuckin wrong !!

and Both are making problems for the world!!!

[siceone]

thats deep bro great addition

[tribal]

FUCK ISRAEL AND FUCK PALESTINE!!

Im sick of both!!

Both are fuckin wrong !!

and Both are making problems for the world!!!

kind of like Pakistan and India right? fuck em both as well.

but i think youre right in one aspect, this war has no heroes, no right, just all the wrong. i think the article above proves that very well.

why cant things be different?

[sonicinfusion]

Originally posted by tribal

FUCK ISRAEL AND FUCK PALESTINE!!

Im sick of both!!

Both are fuckin wrong !!

and Both are making problems for the world!!!

kind of like Pakistan and India right? fuck em both as well.

but i think youre right in one aspect, this war has no heroes, no right, just all the wrong. i think the article above proves that very well.

why cant things be different?

Pakistan and India will blow each other .. dont worry about them...

They are capable off doing that!!

Over here in this issue everybody wants to fuckin Boss Around !!

Im like fuckin sick of it!!

One blows himself .. and the other fuckin fires from AIR...

Its getting no where ...

Somtimes I think why dont a THIRD party just blow both of the places !!!

So that we can have a peace of mind!!

BUT THATS NOT A FUCKIN SOLUTION ALSO!!!

why so many religons !!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Im fryed

sorry bro!!

[breaksny]

This is just the beginning. But really, did we need another Middle East thread? Well whatever your heart's in the right place even if yer head's not.

[breakbeatz2]

food for thought: do you think that Palestinians feel the same way when they hear that a suicide bomber blew himself up and killed a pregnant Israeli woman? somehow, i doubt it.

and that is where a big difference lies. a stray Israeli bullet accidentaly kills a Palestinian woman and these guy are ready to kill themselves over it. a suicide bomber's sole purpose is to kill innocent people like that.

so, saying both sides are wrong equally is like saying that both Al Qaeda and the U.S. are wrong equally because they are killing each other.

[breakbeatz2]

the reason i completely and unilaterally support Israel is that the conflict was started by the racism of the Arab world when Israel immigrants began arriving in Israel well before it became its own state. Jews didnt come there with an intent to conquer, only to survive when much of Europe wasnt very hospitable to them. under the British occupation, when much of the Jewish population migrated to the land, the British had to constantly intervene to stop rioting Arabs. Self-Defense Jewish organizations were formed to protect the Jewish farmers from bands of murderous Arabs. when Israel finally achieved the ability to defend itself, its all of a sudden portrayed as the aggressor.

look at the roots of the conflict. when Germany lost WWII nobody cried about them getting split up, or about the country being compeletely in ruins after bombardment. they earned it. well, i dont think people should cry too much for a people who tried to destroy Israel, failed, and now are paying the price.

had the Palestinians, and the rest of the Arab world, been more accepting of the Jews earlier on, i dont think any of this would have happened. the militarism of Israel is ONLY A RESULT of the inherent militarism of the peoples around it.

[breaksny]

Depends on the person. The World Service interviewed a Palestinian couple yesterday during "News Hour." The mom's a professor @ Bir Zeit U in Rammallah and the Dad's an engineer of some kind, currently working in Gaza cuz he can't find work in the West Bank. They've been seperated for months by the Israeli blockades and checkpoints, and b/c he needs the money he's making in Gaza. Anyway, they have 3 kids including a 14 yo boy and the interviewer repeatedly asked them do you worry your boy will go out there and start throwing stones or get involved in other violent activities, and the mom kept saying no b/c he's got other things to do like playing soccer, an active social life, he circulates petitions at his school, and he can talk about the conflict with his parents openly. She said they wouldn't let him get involved in such activities anyway. 1 of their younger kids wonder every nite whether their house is gonna be blown up, have invaded, or attacked on many nites anyway. They're living under the same blockade Arafat is, and effectively under many of the same travel restrictions he is. Part of Israel's batustanization of the territories. And yet their kids have no desire to get involved in the violence. Maybe it's b/c they're part of a social elite in their society, unlike alot of poorer families, but good parenting in openly hostile external circumstance certainly has alot to do with it too.

[chris817]

Originally posted by sonicinfusion

FUCK ISRAEL AND FUCK PALESTINE!!

Im sick of both!!

Both are fuckin wrong !!

and Both are making problems for the world!!!

Whats the difference btwn what Isreal is doing and what we are doing in afghanistan??

We are both fighting Terrorism, its not right for us to say they can't defend themselves and we can..

Palestine sends sucide bombers into clubs with teenagers or restaurants with parents and babys and blow themselves up??

and then when rescue teams show up they detonate another bomb to casue more deaths??

So how can you say Fuck both of them?

[sonicinfusion]

Originally posted by chris817

Whats the difference btwn what Isreal is doing and what we are doing in afghanistan??

We are both fighting Terrorism, its not right for us to say they can't defend themselves and we can..

Palestine sends sucide bombers into clubs with teenagers or restaurants with parents and babys and blow themselves up??

and then when rescue teams show up they detonate another bomb to casue more deaths??

So how can you say Fuck both of them?

dude .. its very diff from afghanistan okay!!!

Dont start up with this!!

Both are at fault!!

Palestine are fighting for freedom if they have weapons like Israel then you wont be seeing any fuckin suicide bombing !!

they are not that crazy.. IF they dont have anything to defend with then they are ready to blow themselves up!!

Give them Guns !! and trust me they will fight!!

SO BOTH ARE AT FAULT .. KILLING PPL WILL NOT SOLVE !!

and pls before you write about such issue .. pls think over it !!

Cause even thou im a muslim .. but a very fair one and I SAY BOTH ARE AT FUCKIN FAULT AND IM SICK OF BOTH OF THEM ..

[sassa]

Nice story...

[dusted]

why cant things be different?

Oh boo hoo! Why can't we all just get along?

[dusted]

Give them Guns !! and trust me they will fight!!"

They have guns you moron. Its just not as dramatic as blowing yourself up.

[dusted]

"the reason i completely and unilaterally support Israel is that the conflict was started by the racism of the Arab world when Israel immigrants began arriving in Israel well before it became its own state. Jews didnt come there with an intent to conquer, only to survive when much of Europe wasnt very hospitable to them. under the British occupation, when much of the Jewish population migrated to the land, the British had to constantly intervene to stop rioting Arabs. Self-Defense Jewish organizations were formed to protect the Jewish farmers from bands of murderous Arabs. when Israel finally achieved the ability to defend itself, its all of a sudden portrayed as the aggressor.

look at the roots of the conflict. when Germany lost WWII nobody cried about them getting split up, or about the country being compeletely in ruins after bombardment. they earned it. well, i dont think people should cry too much for a people who tried to destroy Israel, failed, and now are paying the price.

had the Palestinians, and the rest of the Arab world, been more accepting of the Jews earlier on, i dont think any of this would have happened. the militarism of Israel is ONLY A RESULT of the inherent militarism of the peoples around it."

Absolutely, 100% correct.

Most of the people here don't know anything about the origins of the conflict. They think it was created in a vacuum. They don't seem to understand anything prior to the six day war and the Oslo Accords.

Not to mention that they believe every single piece of Arab propaganda.

[rachel1997]

[sonicinfusion]

Originally posted by dusted

"the reason i completely and unilaterally support Israel is that the conflict was started by the racism of the Arab world when Israel immigrants began arriving in Israel well before it became its own state. Jews didnt come there with an intent to conquer, only to survive when much of Europe wasnt very hospitable to them. under the British occupation, when much of the Jewish population migrated to the land, the British had to constantly intervene to stop rioting Arabs. Self-Defense Jewish organizations were formed to protect the Jewish farmers from bands of murderous Arabs. when Israel finally achieved the ability to defend itself, its all of a sudden portrayed as the aggressor.

look at the roots of the conflict. when Germany lost WWII nobody cried about them getting split up, or about the country being compeletely in ruins after bombardment. they earned it. well, i dont think people should cry too much for a people who tried to destroy Israel, failed, and now are paying the price.

had the Palestinians, and the rest of the Arab world, been more accepting of the Jews earlier on, i dont think any of this would have happened. the militarism of Israel is ONLY A RESULT of the inherent militarism of the peoples around it."

Absolutely, 100% correct.

Most of the people here don't know anything about the origins of the conflict. They think it was created in a vacuum. They don't seem to understand anything prior to the six day war and the Oslo Accords.

Not to mention that they believe every single piece of Arab propaganda.

Im not even get into this .. I dont like drama !!

enuf is enuf .. By us barking here wont make a difff!!!

dusted the Arabs are the biggest bastards .. I totally agree with you!!

But at the same time jewish ppl are at fault also!!!