With these labels shutting down, how do we fix it..

[Guest saleen351]

Some back ground info.

Form Clubplanet:

Goodbye to Strictly Rhythm...

As of last friday one the premiere US Dance Labels Strictly Rhythm closed it's doors. More information to follow...... Our deepest and sincere gratitude to Strictly and it's employees in striving to bring beautiful music to dancefloors around this country and the world.

With these labels shutting down, how do we fix it..

At some point some one some where is gonna figure out how to effectively combine downloading with buying... Till then the music industry is in trouble. I'm not just talking club music, all types. Hers my problem, I downloaded the Top Gun sound track yesterday. Not lets say its the year 1987 and computers don't exist like they do today. Would I have bought the Top Gun sound track? Answer is no, I don't like it that much to buy it, yet I'd download it and listen to it. But if it was lets say 4 bucks, I might pick it up, but its at least 15 bucks. and last week the cd stores were found guilty of price fixing. I think Bruce Springsteen and Dave Mathews has figured it out, they just sound better live... DM made 56 million bucks on tour last year, #2 to Tina Turner. Barbra Strisan has a huge demand for her live shows. I thik artists are gonna have to be live guys that play small venues.. and not with 80 dollar tix either...

whats your 2 cents...

[stryke303]

I feel your pain on this subject...believe me I do. Owning a label myself, has been a difficult and arduous task these days. It seems that everyone's favourite label right now is the CD-R label. Funny huh? It's not! I'm a big fan of technology and being able to download MP3s, etc... However, I think this is getting a bit out of hand. I'm not going to fly off the handle here, because I don't have a full solution. I just know that as an artist and label owner, I'm one poor ass mo fo b/c of everyone being able to download my music (which I work very hard on), and not buying it. I get MP3 CDs from friends all the time (thank you Ramon). Do you know what I do when I get these CDs and files? I go out and buy the ones that I dig! The same way I used to buy stuff after getting promo CDs from indie labels (and still do). I'm tired of people telling me about this album and that album they downloaded...meanwhile the artist may be sitting at home, not able to pay their rent or take care of their kids. You think the effect isn't that direct? I'm here to tell you that it is! I have never been one to pretend that I'm rich or living in the lap of luxury. I work my ass off to survive as a musician and DJ. The stealing has to stop. A solution needs to be implemented, and soon. I'm not saying don't download music. But, if you do, pay for it. Go out and find the stuff in a better quality format...vinyl, CD, DVD, whatever. Don't think by snagging the Sasha album or the Underworld album that you're sticking your middle finger at the corporate machine...you're sticking your middle finger up at sasha and underworld, and with your other hand slapping them in the face. it's like eating at a family owned resteraunt, then doing the hog and jog. think about it people.

stryke

rest in peace SR...

[pod]

I used to go out and grab tracks I liked. I really don't anymore, since I have gotten to know a lot of industry people, and realise it does affect them.

Now I pretty much listen to shoutcast streams, which aren't "savable" by normal means, and if I hear a track I like, I usually figure out what comp it may be on, and get that, or if it's a vinyl-only release, possibly pick that up and make a CD copy for my own personal use. Personal use is permitted under copyright law, and really doesn't harm anyone. It's when you give that personal copy off to a friend that the damage is done. If I start getting a lot of vinyl, I might buy another hard drive or two, just to have a backup of sorts. Again, that's OK, it's if I share that hard drive to the world that it isn't.

Grant it, the RIAA and the record labels do engage in price fixing and other illegal tactics, up to and including direct sabotage of personal music collections on a computer, but not all the music out there is "RIAA-approved", so you will more than likely really hurt someone if you download tracks a lot....

[vigo]

First of all i have to show my dismay on the hearing the news that Strictly Rhythm has closed down. Labels of that pedigree and consistentcy in this day and age are a dying breed.

The MP3 dilemma is cutting corporate americas pocket while decimating independant labels. The money-making buggers will ride out the storm while the smaller cottage-industrys will keep going under until a solution can be found. If things go on as they are Sony will end up making a buck out of buying defunct labels back catalogues and selling them to us at some later date.

One of the things that for me is synomynous with decent music is a strong infrastructure or scene that can support itself. One where people who support artists, labels, DJs, clubs and can see the effects of their support and help it grow furthur. I may be stating the obvious but it seems that so maney people i meet seem to think that music which is free of commercial restraints seems to grow on trees. My girlfriend is a great exampe of this; she goes clubs, downloads mp3s, copies her friends latest compilation CD's. The only benefactor of my girlfriends spending is the club promoter and the DJ, who incidently never has to pay for his records??? The best way to make her realise some of the damage she is doing to the scene is being telling her the score or the economic damage of her actions, and then reinforcing point by calling her things like 'MP3 whore' and 'cheapskate indie label killer.'

This has had results as the music she really likes she will go and buy. She actually feels empowered knowing that the music she buys is a show of the scene she is supporting.

Whats my point? I'm not too sure but next time you're at your friends flat check to see how many originals he has.....

[b-side]

Speaking ofically from both sides of the coin.....

1) The industry is being killed by GREEDY people on both sides... (The corp. bastards & cheap as downloaders)

2) Until the industry embaces the digital medium and finds a cost effective way of distributing on line (Like www.I-crunch.com) both the artist and the label will lose money.

3) Most of the "free" music available on line I would not play in a club... the quality is not all that great....

4) People who support the scene (who actually spend money on what they like 12" CDs, MP3s) will always BUY good music... It's the next generation of hackers that place us in danger

Only Time Will Tell

[lavosdeldiablo]

Originally posted by vigo

he only benefactor of my girlfriends spending is the club promoter and the DJ, who incidently never has to pay for his records???

DJ never pays for his records?!?!?

[o0djfx0o]

Interesting point made by Saleen about going out there and bringing your music to the people...Give 'em somethin' that they just cannot appreciate of a piece of plastic...The Vibe of a live show. Look at the Underworld DVD...50,000 strong going b-nutz!!! What was created then and there is irreplacable and undeniable as far as quality of music in a live show goes.

Has anyone heard of new technologies for making CD's more difficult to rip to MP3 or duplication?

I heard that the CD's put out with that type of technology was easily diverted by simply drawing a ring around the edge of the CD with a permanent marker.

[o0djfx0o]

..

[vigo]

Originally posted by lavosdeldiablo

DJ never pays for his records?!?!?

an ever increasing number of self-proclaimed record-changers are coming into existence? Who draws the line and says who can and cannot blag free music?

[lavosdeldiablo]

Maybe so ...But when u say "never" i thought you were referring to the majority...

[digital7]

hahahaha....

Felipe, I find that highly unlikely, hacker's will just find another way or create another program around that. We need to find a solution to the root of the problem, and it starts with the record lables themselves

Jimmy, I guess you and I are the small minority of people who actually do buy our music...

[Guest saleen351]

Well some info for yous. Denny Tsettos, one of my fav Djs who got me hooked on clubs after I heard him drop Robbie Tronco's , The Train, @ Temps in 97, was one of the guys who ran SR records. PS i turned down a free copy of his new track cause I told him I would leak it. So i'm not all that bad.

I have a econ degree so here is my economic solution... (at least a shot at a solution)

1. Tracks must be readily avalible in cd and vinyl

2. All promos send out must be electronicaly tagged so they are traceable. So if the track leaks before the release date, cough cough dark beat cough cough, you can trace it to the source of the leak. ( which may be a NJ dj that leaked it) Black balling that dj forever! Promos can only be sent to the higher eshelon (sp) of djs. Not joe smoe at club cheese in Toledo Ohio... <more on that in a minute

3. Once the track or tracks go on sale, all the stores must have it the same day and only sell it the same day. Make them sign contracts that your record can only be sold starting on such and such a date. This may help people come out in masses to buy things. Make sure all stores all stocked before the release. Cause 9 times out of 10 the NYC guys have it first. Then they rip it and bam its on the net.

4. Why only give it to the higher up djs. Well this could help spur some sales, so the starting out djs pay their dues and go out buy tracks.

5. Sell the cds at the clubs where they spin.

6. Promote the cds in the clubs and flyers. Make the price the selling point. example, If I saw a flyer saying Dark beat is only 6 bucks, you bet your ass I would of boughten it. The cost of 1 beer = the price of the single!

7. You must create demand for the tracks. Basic econ 101.

9. Too many lables. Consolidations may help the industry.

10. Get the live sets off the fucking radio. Let djs make a set so they can broacast it, but ktu in NYC rarely does a live set from a club. Usually only on NYE or Labor Day live with my man Tsettos..

11. A centralized union type site where all dance lables are on there so people have one source to find things.

12. DT has it so you can see the tracks he is spining. How do u buy soemthing you don't know? Make the ids better known.

ALL MY BULLSHIT ABOVEIS IF YOU HAVE A SHITTY PRICE. SINGLES SHOULD BE 4-6 BUCKS. CD SHOULD BE 10 BUCKS. REMEMBER NOW THERE IS A REASON WHY THINGS ARE PRICED AT 39.99 INSTEAD OF 40.00. ITS PROVEN TO WORK. HUMANS HAVE SOME SORT OF PRICE TRIGGER. MINE IS ALWAYS 5 BUCKS FOR SOME REASON.

[mrmatas2277]

Originally posted by saleen351

ALL MY BULLSHIT ABOVEIS IF YOU HAVE A SHITTY PRICE. SINGLES SHOULD BE 4-6 BUCKS. CD SHOULD BE 10 BUCKS.

when u speak of "singles" u are referring to Vinyl? cuz if u are, vinyl costs a hell of alot more to produce than cds....but u do make some valid points....such as giving it to the top DJs and having a way to track them....but with every plan, nothing is fool proof....

[vigo]

Some interesting ideas but most of your suggestions would add an extra cost to the exhibition and promotion of the music and consequentially it'll be the consumer who foots the bill.

One positive aspect from MP3 and file sharing which is seemingly ignored is the democratisation of music, the idea that everyone should have access to it regardless of their standing in the elitist echelons of dance music. It'd be a shame regress to back to the days when good fun was for the trendy few 'who knew the score', anyway corporate america has been doing that for years.

[Guest saleen351]

Well I don't think it would add any cost to the product. Compaines do this all the time. In the end it makes more money. The label would be responsible for tagging the tracks, You could do it in an afternoon. At least with a cd you could a vinyl could be problems, so you may have to come up with some type of way of encodding each promo, but hey a 1000 bucks spend now may make you 10000 bucks later on. I think leaking is the main problem of these tracks. Also sharing tracks with djs on the same label. BAD MOVE!!!!! Those guys play it out... Only let the big boys play them......

[Guest saleen351]

Originally posted by mrmatas2277

when u speak of "singles" u are referring to Vinyl? cuz if u are, vinyl costs a hell of alot more to produce than cds....but u do make some valid points....such as giving it to the top DJs and having a way to track them....but with every plan, nothing is fool proof....

well I"ve never went record shopping so I really don't know how much they cost. but the way I see it, the way its done now, ain't working.... sorta like the RIAA, the ship is sinking and they are still bitching about it instead of baleing water and fixing the problem.

Nothing is fool proof, but the consenquences of being caught if you do leak it, means you will probably not risk it, and tell your buddies to wait a month...

[mrjoebudious]

My 1/2 cent

This excludes smaller, vinyl record labels. Vinyl costs more and small pressings make records rare so they should cost a little more. Vinyl are for people who need to have it, as it should be. Not because its neat-o. STAND TALL VINYL JUNKIES I salute you!

Now cd's.

There is a difference between a burned cd and store puchased cd.s. No artwork, design thought, feel, etc. One adds the sense of sight, plus you sometimes learn more of the group/dj etc.

i.e. store purchased cd's are better quality and offer more.

THEy ARE TWO DAMN EXPENSIVE. Everyone knows what they cost to produce, especially one that in the hundreds of thousands etc. This is why people steal them. If they sold for the realitic fair price of like $4 and $6 for dbl cd, or such, it would be worth that extra couple bucks to add the quality and artwork/vibe. People are getting ripped off so they are robbing back. Labels think they would fail if this was done. Maybe they would. Does that mean music would stop. Of course not. It will adapt somehow.

99% of the music I have downloaded I would never buy. Now that I have it downloaded I listen to some art I would not have listened to otherwise. I know the money thing somehow falls into place and I don't have the slightest idea what the answer is. All I know is as long as people are getting ripped off, they will try to return the jesture.

IF YOU ARE A VINYL JUNKIE< CONTINUE YOUR ADDICTION, I LIVE FOR YOUR PROBLEM!!!

[mikeydny]

The avergae club goer who is into music, and does not own turntables, will not buy vinyl.

Plenty of people buy music albums, not enough, especially in this country.

Just because "mp3whores", which is TONS of people, go and download songs, doesnt mean they dont support that artist or dj, but they wanna hear the music, and music is meant to be heard, it sucks that it fucks up the DJ, but these styles of music aren't that big in this country, and I doubt it will ever be like it is overseas here.

So everytime one of these sites go down, another will be right back up to replace it. Example: Napster, to AG, to Soulseek, they'll be around forever.

[rcrespo]

I AM A VINYL JUNKIE.

If you don't believe me just ask any of my friends. Sure im not a superstar dj or any of that shit, but I still enjoy 'diggin' trying to find that B side that was on that 1995 import from france there were only 500 copies.

Live sets from DJ's are great. It gives you a real representation of what that DJ is doing at that moment. What records he's playing etc.

About track Id's? You gotta keep diggin and keep up to date with your favorite scene,labels, friends etc.

Is vinyl too expensive?

I'll say the imports could be a bit cheaper. Domestics at 5-7 dollars are fine.

If imports were 8 and 9 it would be better, but 10 and 11 and ridiculous amounts for 2x12 and not even going to get into 3x12's.

Every now and then I'll go on a binge and buy a good 100 dollars worth of cd's last time it was the catch up with Kraftwerk/Soma collection.

This week it was the lets get some classics.

Leftfield - Leftism

Plastikman - Consume

About Saleen's comment about CD's .. yes music should be available on cd. IF not you have resort to getting a promo cdr which does nothing for the label or artist.

About MP3's in general. It has helped me a great in tracking down those records that helped inspire so many people. Northern Exposure , Renaissance One etc. Then of course the fun part is finding them on vinyl.

Try looking for the 4x12 of Northern Exposure 1

And with that last thought. I'll let you think about those little black circles of wax that we all love

DEEP DOWN IN MIAMI,

Ramon C.

are you restricted?

[slim007]

Saleen who the fuck cares if you have an econ degree from OCC

how bout this U STOP LEAKING THE MUSIC . . .ASSHOLE . . .

you are part of the problem . . .

keep stealing from businesses and then when they go under . . feel bad . . . complain about it . . .and send out your regards for them . . .

let me make an analogy to maybe help clear it up for some of you because too much bass has rattled your brain . . .

if you owned a restaurant and didnt charge anyone to eat there and generate revenue for you business . . .yes pretty soon you would go under because there is no money coming in . . basic econ 101

late . . .

[thepulse]

I'm a vinyl junkie spinning since 1983, and in clubs since 1988. I have a very radical approach to the solution that will never happen. Make the quality of downloads so horrible when compared to vinyl that no respectable jock would use them in a club- make the vinyl and label-produced cds more available and modestly priced. If that doesn't work, rip all the cd players out of the damn clubs, If you can't carry your vinyl- get the fuck in shape. I realize there is also some creativity points of cds versus vinyl, but with certain effects processors in the booth certain djs can work wonders with 3 tables and some vinyl!! Just my two cents,

VINYL-Tried, Tested, Trusted!!!!

[tsheritage]

You all are missing one crucial point about the cost of CDs ... they're that expensive because the big sellers have to offset the loss that the Record Labels made on the bad sellers. For every 10 million copies of Madonna's last CD, there are 10 million copies of failed projects that the Record Companies never recoup their losses from. So, in order to keep the industry moving and give new talent a chance, the big name artists subsidize the newcomers. Sure, it would be great if every cd was only $5, but with the current distribution models that's not going to happen.

The only way this is going to work out, speaking for CDs only, is if online distribution replaces the old brick and morter way of distributing product. The majority of CD costs is publicity and distribution ... eliminate the point of sale publicity and shipping and the price can go way dwon.

Unfortunately, there will be pain over the next few years as things move to this new model ... the record companies that stop fighting the trend and instead embrace it will be the ones that make it in the long run. Instead of fighting Napster, they should have joined with them and made the new model work. Now the industry is fuct because the major labels missed their chance when it was all new and the lazy consumers had already bought into the new distribution media, i.e. Napster. Time to play catch-up!

As for indy labels, I fear we're all dead. Like Stryke, I too run a small label, (only had three 12" releases so far, which sold like 500 units each) and I can tell you from experience that all of the little distribution companies that used to support us little labels are all hurting as much as us. Once the small distributers are out of business we're fuct. Time to invest your efforts into online distribution. With new CD players like the Pioneer CDJ1000, the differences between spinning vinyl and CD are very slim now. Soon enough it will all be mp3 players straight out of the laptop.

[Guest saleen351]

Well someone that is in the game more then most of us pointed out that djs are not putting up thier charts any more. And more and more big time guys are not telling people what they play! I did some checking and he's right. I think its a good move. But will sales go down, or are they so far down it doesn't matter?

[thepulse]

it all turns out ok, but it's definitely ugly.

[vigo]

Originally posted by saleen351

...djs are not putting up thier charts any more. And more and more big time guys are not telling people what they play! I did some checking and he's right. I think its a good move

as opposed to what you had said earlier in the thread..

Originally posted by saleen351

12. DT has it so you can see the tracks he is spining. How do u buy soemthing you don't know? Make the ids better known

Sorry for being picky it was sticking out like a sore thumb.

As i see it alot of producers/artists indulge in DJing and vice-versa. Industry figures want to have their cake and eat it......a DJ wants to covert all his imports/rarities/xtra special remixes, not telling a soul, while then shamelessly promoting his own track/label/remix. I'm sorry but that just doesn't sit well with me, if it goes down this road DJ's and producers might as well go and get their corporate suites out the closet now.

Maybe another reason for indie labels going under is to do with diversification. I've noticed everything in the states is geared towards segregation...if you look at the UK the indie labels which have done well are ones who release a wide range of styles under the umbrella of good music.