i heard a rumor about giant & the vanguard...

[weyes]

ok, it's totally unsubstantiated, but i heard a rumor that giant may be taking its saturday nights away from avalon and to the vanguard. has anyone heard anything about this? does this mean that that crowd that avalon has will disappear with the move? huh, huh?????

weyes has to know !!!!!!

[cool1g]

let's say 'hypothetically' that Giant moves to Vanguard.

remember its the afterhours component of Avalon IMO that brings in the washing machines and supposedly rude people, not Giant.

the more things change, the more they remain the same.

[theseeker1981]

ok, it's totally unsubstantiated, but i heard a rumor that giant may be taking its saturday nights away from avalon and to the vanguard. has anyone heard anything about this? does this mean that that crowd that avalon has will disappear with the move? huh, huh?????

weyes has to know !!!!!!

my guess is your average avalon attendee doesn't know a damn thing about Giant and Avaland, just that the venue is the place to see and be seen.

I would bet that the crowd would stay at the avalon and the acts will move to the vangaurd.

IF this is true.

[gemerald]

very much true........ giant weekly events will be moving to the vanguard

[vegasguy25]

Too bad. I love Avalon, and think it is far superior to Vanguard. Oh well, I wish Dave the best.

[weyes]

let's say 'hypothetically' that Giant moves to Vanguard.

remember its the afterhours component of Avalon IMO that brings in the washing machines and supposedly rude people, not Giant.

the more things change, the more they remain the same.

i'm entirely not with you on this one. it's the phony hollywood wannabes that i hate - not the afterhours crowd. the sunglasses-indoors-who-don't-know-or-care-who-the-dj-is crowd are the people who bring me down, and they're there in the beginning, which is the only time i'm there and when the djs i want to see usually spin anyway.

if what theseeker says is, so, weyes will be in heaven !!!

[cool1g]

sigh - sometimes i feel like i'm talking to a wall.

yes Giant is moving. first events start in Sept. they will also try to mix it up with some live music act (not sure who yet) and cross-promotions with KCRW. i think Danny Howells is their first booking there.

as 'theseeker' said, the hollywood crowd doesn't know giant from avalon from avaland from WiredLA from Spundae from whomever. they won't be leaving - the venue is the attraction for them. the educated DJ crowd will go to the place that has the DJs they want to see, which could be either venue on any given night.

[lalate]

I personally knew a ton of people that went to Giant because it is Giant, often subpromoting, sometimes just partying, and even they couldnt tell you the name of the dj ... and when they had free cd giveaways of the great talent, when I handed it to them, they were more interested in talking about who's going to Larchmont later than looking at the cd itself.

[howienewport]

I personally knew a ton of people that went to Giant because it is Giant, often subpromoting, sometimes just partying, and even they couldnt tell you the name of the dj ... and when they had free cd giveaways of the great talent, when I handed it to them, they were more interested in talking about who's going to Larchmont later than looking at the cd itself.

Burningman?

[cool1g]

I personally knew a ton of people that went to Giant because it is Giant, often subpromoting, sometimes just partying, and even they couldnt tell you the name of the dj ... and when they had free cd giveaways of the great talent, when I handed it to them, they were more interested in talking about who's going to Larchmont later than looking at the cd itself.

they wouldn't be able to draw 8,000 people to downtown la the other nite if they didn't have some sort of following :shades2

the best thing to say about this is come October, we'll see how it all plays out after Giant has done a couple of parties at Vanguard.

[lalate]

they wouldn't be able to draw 8,000 people to downtown la the other nite if they didn't have some sort of following :shades2

the best thing to say about this is come October, we'll see how it all plays out after Giant has done a couple of parties at Vanguard.

Thats not what I said.

When Porter played, you hardly couldnt find one person who had any clue who was on stage.

[lalate]

Burningman?

bring it yingyang man.

[weyes]

sigh - sometimes i feel like i'm talking to a wall...

then you didn't read what i wrote. what i was disagreeing with you on was the crowd; i think that the early crowd is a bunch of assholes, you seem not to.

[cool1g]

then you didn't read what i wrote. what i was disagreeing with you on was the crowd; i think that the early crowd is a bunch of assholes, you seem not to.

i go to Avalon much more than you do, probably more than once per month on average. i'm guessing i've been 30 times or so since Giant started there in early 2004. Only on 1 occasion (earlier this year) have i ever had a bad experience with some morons at the club.

I don't believe anyone goes to Avalon nowadays on a Sat nite because its 'cool' or just because Giant is involved. The crowd is either those who don't really care who the DJ is but want a fun night out, or those like us that want to go because we want to see someone in particular.

I don't get the elitism/generalization where if someone is there having fun, but they are wearing sunglasses and have no idea and don't care who is spinning, that automatically you have an issue with that person. Maybe that person will like the DJs set so much they will ask who it is and become a fan of that person.

You need to remember the way the numbers work for running a club - you can't consistently bring in top talent and fill the venue week in and week out (with some exceptions like Tiesto, Sasha, Deep Dish) with fans like us. There unfortunately aren't enough to go around. You need some non-EDM educated people to pay the cover and buy drinks to make the whole event justifiable.

The last time i was at Avalon, for Darren Emerson, the place never got full until 3ish, which shows how much of a draw the afterhours is there. Same thing for Nic Fancuilli/Paul Wolford in June - great talent but did not come close to filling the place until late in the night.

Will some people follow Giant blindly to Vanguard? sure. I'm good friends with both the people at Giant and at Avalon so it doesn't really matter to me. When my friends and I go to Avalon, its to see a DJ - we could care less who the promoter is. Same thing will happen once Giant starts up at Vanguard. Whoever draws the talent I want to see is where I will go. The night that Erick Morillo played Avalon on a friday not too long ago - it felt just like a Sat nite there but Giant had nothing to do with the promotion. Though that was the one night a friend and myself separately had to deal with morons. Maybe Giant brings out a nicer and gentler crowd.

FYI, Giant didn't even run the street team promotions for Sat nites. That was run by JC from WiredLA. All Giant did was book the talent and send out email blasts. WiredLA is still going to do the street promoting for the time being and be a big part of getting people to Avalon on Sat nites.

Years ago when Giant had the Living Giant board, I ended up meeting a ton a great people through that - we've roadtripped to Vegas for the Sasha and Digweed Delta Heavy show at the Venetian, been to the WMC multiple times with them and even partied in Ibiza with some of them. 3 of the people i was recently in Vegas with i've met through Giant.

Just in the last five weeks alone, i've been to Avalon (for Darren Emerson), had bottle service at the Spider Club (crowd sucked), gotten bottles at Crobar and Pacha in NYC (great times), checked out the Hotel Ganesvoort rooftop bar, been to Body English on a sunday (main room sucked - too crowded/hip-hop music/total meatmarket vibe, VIP was good as Jack LaFleur was playing house in there), Rehab (great time), Empire Ballroom (friends were playing the patio), Ice for Oscar G, Dragon in Hermosa for Scotty Boy, Hollywood Canteen with Architects of Sound, Les Deux twice (best new lounge in LA), LAX, Holly's (overrated) and 2 insane mansion parties in the hills.

Point being, i've partied all over the place recently and done it both VIP style and done the shorts and t-shirt thing too so I can make a very informed opinion as to the crowd at Avalon. Bottom line is the crowd is very typical for any club in Hollywood where you pay the cover and don't deal with the guest list/velvet rope BS - ala the Highlands or Ivar.

The asian washing-machines in the middle of the dance floor can be a bit annoying, but I don't feel the need to be right in the middle of that anyway. There is not much difference in dancing in the balcony or the stage or bottle section except for the volume of the music.

[sancib]

Wow, this is a pretty heady thread.. I just fear that vangard is a smaller venue, and will not be looking forward to seeing Sasha and the likes there:cry: because there is enough of us to allow for not eveyone to get in, overcrowding, etc... Thats why I like to go to a big venue for headlining d.j.'s I know I will have space to dance:getdown:

[gemerald]

i love avalon...... hopefully, the venue change won't be that big a deal.....

[lalate]

There are some really great discussions on this thread.

Here's my turn on the subject having rated and reviewed venues for nearly 1/2 decade.

:::: 1) people go to venues for different reasons. ::::

It's sort of like "equal opportunity clubbing". The worst thing any clubgoer could do is put upon other clubgoers their motivation for clubbing.

Why I go out is not the same reason the next person does. I alone in 10 seconds can name 5 different reasons just to start why someone goes out.

If ever person was to be hostile, unappreciative, of the next clubgoer because they are there for a different reason then them, then no one could have fun.

::: 2) dont presume against the environment :::

My favorite is when people presume the environment will be other than what it is more likely to be.

You have alcohol, Saturday night, dark rooms. Yet, there will undoubtely be some girl who will say "oh my god everyone is so drunk here". Hello, its a bar lol! "oh my god, I keep on getting hit on." Hello, its a bar, with drunk people, dancing, and low lights. If you dont want to hit on, go to the bookstore on a Saturday night. lol

:::: 3) the 101 Effect :::

Ask anyone who knows me - quite well - and I call it the 101 Effect in LA (having written on the subject in an article back in 2005). Go 10 blocks east of the 101 Freeway in LA, and you will find more real, more friendly, less pretentious people than west of the 101 Freeway. It's always been that way and doesnt seem to change. You can take the same bar (same owner) and visit the one in Brentwood .. you will find an entirelly different mindset at their establishment in Pasadena.

:::: 4) Dont judge, I wont judge you :::

When was the last time I wore shades on the dancefloor? Saturday! How long? Just 1/2 hour when dancing. When was the last time I wore a hat in a club? Saturday.

So if you are going to presume that Im rude, pretentious, uncool, etc, then I will do the same to people who wear t shirts like "My Dog is Lucky" or "Come back and Visit me after 2 more drinks".

I really dont like when people judge things on their surface. For me, I can pull off at least 20 different clubgoer looks/styles. Dont be hating my stylin' cuz thats what I wear, but Im the same ******.

[weyes]

I don't get the elitism/generalization where if someone is there having fun, but they are wearing sunglasses and have no idea and don't care who is spinning, that automatically you have an issue with that person. Maybe that person will like the DJs set so much they will ask who it is and become a fan of that person.

When was the last time I wore shades on the dancefloor? Saturday! How long? Just 1/2 hour when dancing. When was the last time I wore a hat in a club? Saturday.

So if you are going to presume that Im rude, pretentious, uncool, etc, then I will do the same to people who wear t shirts like "My Dog is Lucky" or "Come back and Visit me after 2 more drinks".

you both are missing my point.

it's not about what people are wearing at all. i look totally out of place at most of these events, generally 'cause i dress more old skool than other people. i don't care if people wear sunglasses, expensive shirts, t-shirts with quirky messages on them, whatever.

what i'm against are people who go to clubs just to be seen. THAT is what i take issue with. and don't try to tell me that there aren't people who do that, 'cause you know as well as i do that there are.

and la late, perhaps you've changed since then, but you used to judge clubs by a "people's hotness level." if you still do, i don't know why you're taking issue with anything i may have said that has been misconstrued.

[lalate]

you both are missing my point.

it's not about what people are wearing at all. i look totally out of place at most of these events, generally 'cause i dress more old skool than other people. i don't care if people wear sunglasses, expensive shirts, t-shirts with quirky messages on them, whatever.

what i'm against are people who go to clubs just to be seen. THAT is what i take issue with. and don't try to tell me that there aren't people who do that, 'cause you know as well as i do that there are.

and la late, perhaps you've changed since then, but you used to judge clubs by a "people's hotness level." if you still do, i don't know why you're taking issue with anything i may have said that has been misconstrued.

I didnt take issue with anything you or cool wrote. I was talking in general terms. Your comments are always right on point generally in my book

And about the hottness factor (how people look) - yes, sometimes there is a place for that in a review because some people are going to hookup, not to groove the music.

[theseeker1981]

Wow, this is a pretty heady thread.. I just fear that vangard is a smaller venue, and will not be looking forward to seeing Sasha and the likes there:cry: because there is enough of us to allow for not eveyone to get in, overcrowding, etc... Thats why I like to go to a big venue for headlining d.j.'s I know I will have space to dance:getdown:

Yeah there is more dancing space at the Avalon, but the majority of the space is taken up by people who aren't dancing.

I like the Vangaurd chill out area better, I like the people behind the bar better, I find the bathrooms cleaner and I like the trapeez acts they have instead of the usual stripper working as a go-go girl on her off day.

I'll admit that the physical dance floor sucks, but on the whole I'll take it over the Avalon. The Avalon is a theater turned into a music venue that plays electronica acts. Not a dance club. It is set up for live bands and things like the suicide girls (and they book those the same nights as the electronica acts so you get those nasty cluster fscks outside the main door). I do like how dark it is at the Avalon, though.

I guess if the Vangaurd redesigned the dance floor, cause they seem to find the bar and bottle tables more important than the dance floor, darkend the place a bit more I'd be happier.

[theseeker1981]

BTW, I'd like to weigh in on things. I don't judge a club night on dress, girl-guy ratio or any of the other things mentioned.

I look at the ratio of people dancing vs. people not dancing.

Then I look at how friendly the crowd is. Can I just join in on a random dance circle without getting any "who the hell is this guy?" feedback. Do I get a lot of "ugh, how this guy is dressed" feedback?

The great thing about dancing at a club is that people that are drunk, or rolling or sober that are dressed cool, raver, or t shirt and jeans from all differnet backgrounds look at each other and think the same thing, "damn this song kicks ass, let's dance". For atleast one night all these differnet people are marching (dancing) to the beat of the same drum (song).

I hate the raver kids sitting on the floor getting drugged out light shows as much as I hate the gucci'd out elite and I hate them for the same reason. They don't join in on the fun. A good night of electronica is like an organized riot. It is the only place in LA when you step on someone's foot that THEY will apologize to YOU, and they just got their foot crushed.

I won't tell the raver kids to stop with the drugs and the light shows, just do it at home. There is no need to do that in public. I won't tell the social elite to stop trying to see and be seen, just do that in clubs ment for it like the standard.

So by judging a dance club on wether or not people are actualy there to dance, I would have to say that the Avalon is a pretty lame dance club.

There are a million reasons to go out. Just make sure that your reasons match up with the type of club your are going to.

[weyes]

...I look at the ratio of people dancing vs. people not dancing. Then I look at how friendly the crowd is. Can I just join in on a random dance circle without getting any "who the hell is this guy?" feedback. Do I get a lot of "ugh, how this guy is dressed" feedback?

The great thing about dancing at a club is that people that are drunk, or rolling or sober that are dressed cool, raver, or t shirt and jeans from all differnet backgrounds look at each other and think the same thing, "damn this song kicks ass, let's dance". For atleast one night all these differnet people are marching (dancing) to the beat of the same drum (song).

...I won't tell the social elite to stop trying to see and be seen, just do that in clubs ment for it like the standard. So by judging a dance club on wether or not people are actualy there to dance, I would have to say that the Avalon is a pretty lame dance club. There are a million reasons to go out. Just make sure that your reasons match up with the type of club your are going to.

i'm with you on all of that. what bugs me so very much about avalon is that almost all of my favorite djs spin there now. spundae used to have the good djs, and i absolutely love it there (or at least i thought it was just perfect BEFORE the renovation; that didn't make sense. having an empty-looking big club is much worse than a well-filled --- but never overpacked --- smaller one.). the vibe at spundae is unmatched, anywhere. those people are the friendliest a person'll meet. even people who are just chilling on the patio and not dancing are nice; they're doing that to smoke, eat, or cool off from the dancefloor - not to be seen.

i'm hoping that spundae makes a comeback in all of this, too. perhaps if they get rid of that side room again, it could easily happen.

[cool1g]

spundae won't gain from this at all or change their booking policy - Giant/Vanguard and Avalon will now compete over the same DJs that used to only be at Avalon.

A good night of electronica is like an organized riot

heh - love that quote!

[theseeker1981]

i'm with you on all of that. what bugs me so very much about avalon is that almost all of my favorite djs spin there now. spundae used to have the good djs, and i absolutely love it there (or at least i thought it was just perfect BEFORE the renovation; that didn't make sense. having an empty-looking big club is much worse than a well-filled --- but never overpacked --- smaller one.). the vibe at spundae is unmatched, anywhere. those people are the friendliest a person'll meet. even people who are just chilling on the patio and not dancing are nice; they're doing that to smoke, eat, or cool off from the dancefloor - not to be seen.

i'm hoping that spundae makes a comeback in all of this, too. perhaps if they get rid of that side room again, it could easily happen.

I agree that spundae has a great crowd and I want them to make a come back too. AND I LIKE THE RENOVATIONS! THbbbbt to all that don't. The main dance floor is a little bigger, but that just leaves room for people in the back by the bar so they don't interfere with the people dancing. The side room is great to chill out and still be able to be a part of the action and it gives people a lot of room to spin poi. I wish they would kiss and make up with god's kitchen

The thing that bugged me about all the great DJs playing at Avalon and no one knowing who they are or caring is that it is like going to a concert and not knowing the band or caring.

Do you see people randomly buying tickets to the hollywood bowl, house of blues or the greek theater without knowing the band playing that night and not giving a flip about the band playing when they get there? I'd venture to say that it is unheard of.

BTW, there is a difference between going out to hear someone new and what I am talking about. Cause if you are trying someone/something new you actualy care about the music act that is currently playing.

[weyes]

I agree that spundae has a great crowd and I want them to make a come back too. AND I LIKE THE RENOVATIONS! THbbbbt to all that don't. The main dance floor is a little bigger, but that just leaves room for people in the back by the bar so they don't interfere with the people dancing. The side room is great to chill out and still be able to be a part of the action and it gives people a lot of room to spin poi. I wish they would kiss and make up with god's kitchen

The thing that bugged me about all the great DJs playing at Avalon and no one knowing who they are or caring is that it is like going to a concert and not knowing the band or caring. Do you see people randomly buying tickets to the hollywood bowl, house of blues or the greek theater without knowing the band playing that night and not giving a flip about the band playing when they get there? I'd venture to say that it is unheard of...

i haven't been there many times since the renovations, but whenever i have, the new, BIG room has been brightly lit, which only spotlighted the fact that it was almost entirely empty. it made it seem like the night was a flop, to me. besides, the sound in there was a joke.

and what is "spinning poi?"