john58

I can't have a good time there when it's too crowded. It's much more fun around 8A.M. Lots of room to dance, and less problems getting up the stairs. I loved the music I heard between 9 and 11. Nevertheless, I admit it is so dark that it is easy to step on someone and trip on those stairs, even when it isn't too crowded. Also, there's a dank smell of sweat permeating the dance floor. But, nothing is ever perfect...

bombay sapphire gin and tonic

This is true. "Ecstacy overdose" is an ambiguous term. Which comes back to my point that a newspaper article explaining the cause of death listed in an autopsy report must take great liberties to call it an "ecstacy" overdose. The report itself would be specific and list an MDMA OD as the cause of death, if this were the substance that resulted in the boy's death. How many reporters know or care to get the details right? Ketamine, Methyldihydroxymethamphetamine, Gamma Hydroxybuturate, it all sounds the same right? Might as well pick the headline that makes the article the most interesting. Furthermore, if he took a bad pill, the cause of death would be listed as whatever substance made the pill bad... DXM, cyanide, whatever. Oh, and if he died of heat exhaustion, heat exhaustion would be listed as the cause of death, not an overdose. If you jump off a building, your cause of death will be severe trauma from the impact with the ground, not jumping. Bottom line... The black market adds an element of risk to drug use. Buyer beware. If you get pure MDMA though, OD'ing is very unlikely, but still possible if you take enough pills.

Check out this review of Sandstorm I found on Amazon.Com: ------------------------------------------ Reviewer: Adrian (see more about me) from Vancouver, BC Canada come on boys and girls... This song isn't that great? A club hit? hardly.. just because something goes on the radio doesn't make it a club hit. System F - Out of the Blue, DJ Tiesto - Sparkles, Zombie Nation - Kernkraft 400... now those are club hits.. but are they getting all the acclaim this song is? Noooo.. why because it's on the radio. This song will definately blow over in 3 months. If you want to blow your money on this song at least have a mixer so you can mix this with other tracks like Klubbheads or something. ------------------------------------------- I guess Zombie Nation is more tolerated in Vancouver... here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ts/music-customer-reviews/B00004UCAM/qid=970059011/sr=1-1/103-9333404-9447826

OK, I'm confused now... Have you seen the actual ME report Rally? I didn't read the whole thread but the first link said the NY Times reported the contents of the report, but didn't actually print the report. I have seen a NY Times reporter confuse creatine and steroids in an article, so personally I have no faith that they can accurately discuss the contents of a detailed autopsy report. For all we know the report said GHB killed him and the reporter confused his club drugs. I've seen articles that confused the two before. So, if someone did publish the autopsy report, then you are right Rally, you are not talking about the media. But if all we have to go on is the NY Times's account of the report, the media issue is relevant. BTW, I have a friend who is an emergency room physician. In three years of residency he has yet to witness an OD death from anything other than Heroin, Cocaine, Alcohol, and GHB. Does this mean ecstacy OD's can't happen. No! It does mean I would want to see the real autopsy report to believe it happened, not a reporter's version of the report.

My old hairdresser claimed that he dated Junior off and on. Take it with a grain of salt, but he told me Junior gets $10,000 a night (as of 1998). Assuming SnD are paid similarly, I would guess they get $10-$15K each for a show. Whoever mentioned a $250,000 annual contract for both of them sounds right (around $10,000 each per show assuming 12 shows a year)

Sorry about your love travails Blue... Sounds like you have come to terms with them though. I guess everyone deals with emotional deceptions differently. Regardless of the situation, I think it is safe to say that you should be honest with the other person. If you are not into a relationship and the other person is, break it off as soon as possible. Every day that goes by only makes it worse. peace, j

I said: You sound like you are really bitter towards people who cheat. But personally, getting rejected has hurt me just as much as getting cheated on. When someone says, "oh I met this great guy and I wanted to fool around with him but didn't. So, I am dumping your sorry ass to go out with him," it doesn't make me feel any better because nothing physical happened yet. I feel equally hurt either way. You said: So, you're saying that you would rather be cheated on then having you girlfriend be honest with you. You would rather that she deceive you in thinking that everything is okay when it's obviously not?? If that's what you're saying then (I'm sorry) but I think you're very delusional. It is unfair to call me delusional. In fact, my point was that as you put it: "I do not want to be deceived into thinking that everything is okay when it's obviously not." This deception can occur with or without my girlfriend having physical contact with another man. People who form an intense mental relationship with someone behind their significant other's back, but feel absolved of guilt because nothing happened until after the breakup are ignoring the reality of their action's effects. And, I am speaking from experience. I have had both situations occur. Summing up the two stories: I had two serious relationships end when I thought things were good. In the first, my girlfriend announced she had been getting to know some other guy and so basically "see you later." In the second, my girlfriend revealed she had been hooking up with her ex and wanted to break it off with me (I became the ex). In both instances, I felt gutwrenching pain like I had been stabbed with a knife (cliched but aptly descriptive), because I was "deceived into thinking that everything was okay when it was obviously not." Looking back, I can say I was hurt equally. I don't think this is a delusion.

This is getting a little hostile but I don't want it too... Since this is not a verbal conversation I don't have the opportunity to tie things together neatly. I never said you were confused, BlueAngel. And I am not endorsing cheating... ------------------------------------ Is my question "why do people cheat?" or "why do people make morally weak decisions?" ISN'T THAT THE SAME THING? I mean people cheat cause they're making a morally weak decision . . . or they're just plain evil. I don't think they are the same question. To show why, let's assume that a temptation drives any morally weak decision. There are two questions, one specific and one global in scope. The specific question is "why do people take a certain action?" The global question is "why do people make morally weak decisions, of which this certain action is one?" Assume the morally weak decision is not cheating, but stealing. We could say, "why do people steal?" The answer would be what temptations drive stealing. One temptation would be the need for money. Another one would be simply the thrill of the wrongdoing. There could be other reasons. Specific answers for the specific moral breakdown in question. When you say "why do people cheat?" to me that means the specific answers (trapped in marriage, horny old man, etc.) apply. "Why do people make morally weak decisions?" is a much deeper philosophical question that doesn't have definitive answers, especially since morality to an extent is individually defined as well as societally defined. One last thought, I've read some studies (although I must admit that any study of American bedroom behavior is probably frought with inaccuracies) that claim more than half of spouses cheat at one time or another. That's a lot of morally weak or just plain evil people out there.

I wasn't saying that cheating was right. You said originally "why cheating?" and I was just listing reasons why it happens, not endorsing them. Is your question "why do people cheat?" or "why do people make morally weak decisions?" You seem to be focused on situations where one person really acts like everything is great, "I love you so much blah blah blah", and then surprise surprise they have another girlfriend. But I was trying to point out that there are situations where cheating occurs that are different than this. My friend's half-crazy husband threw her out of the apartment (not really threw, but just made it very clear she wasn't welcome there) Obviously they were on bad terms at this point, and he wouldn't take her calls for over 3 months. Eventually she started seeing someone, and then he found out and was calling her "a cheating whore, etc." Technically she was cheating, but I don't think this situation is morally equivalent to the "surprise surprise" case You sound like you are really bitter towards people who cheat. But personally, getting rejected has hurt me just as much as getting cheated on. When someone says, "oh I met this great guy and I wanted to fool around with him but didn't. So, I am dumping your sorry ass to go out with him," it doesn't make me feel any better because nothing physical happened yet. I feel equally hurt either way.

Sure, some people might not get in and bash the place in anger. But, there seems an equal chance that people who get in just might hate it and feel like expressing their opinion. You seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't like it got turned away. I think there are also a lot of people who get in, are bored stiff, and then wonder what all the fuss is about. As for people threatening the doorman's life, they are psychopaths. Hopefully no one on this board has done that

OK, I agree that in a less crowded place with a better dressed crowd it is probably safer... I will be well soaked in shiny oil. I have also started layering with fake tanner, so that by this weekend I will be glowing a healthy nuclear waste shade of orange.

I did read your post... It sounds to me like you plainly are saying people with big egos and nice clothes are less likely to get into fights over stupid stuff than less-adorned clubgoers. As I said before, I disagree with that. I can think of three occasions (one at Cheetah, one at Ohm, and one a while ago at System) where I was minding my own business and some drunk guy in expensive clothes stumbled into me. This was followed by the usual testosterone-fueled posturing by the guy and all his friends. Sure, your "size of the ego" statement and my "ego+alcohol" statements are similar, but we draw different conclusions from them. If you still are convinced I didn't read your post... Come find me at factory this Saturday at 7A.M. I'll be by the right stair case on the main dance floor... I'm 8'6" 950 lbs. 1.5% body fat. I'll be wearing posing trunks and a $3 pair of sneakers with holes in them...

BlueAngel, I've read several times that you don't "understand cheating." Yes, cheating is wrong, but I think you are taking something that is complicated and trying to make it simple. i think one reason behind a lot of cheating is that people become trapped. They can't just break it off, so they dabble behind their spouse's back. People in marriage may grow apart, but maybe they are reluctant to split up because of kids, or maybe one is financially dependent on the other. Just because you can't leave doesn't mean you can suppress your feelings. Another situation is this: Both people start out equally attractive to one another, but over time one person becomes repulsive to the other. BTW, I have seen this happen to friends of both genders. Since there is a strong emotional bond, the person who is not attracted anymore is reluctant to bite the bullet. Along comes that handsome/beautiful stranger and then... Another reason for cheating unique to men is that when men become very rich and successful, they seem to like to date women half their age. A quick look through the news confirms this every day. I think it is deplorable, and speak out against this vocally. I told this once to someone much older than me, and he said "well, if you are 63 and worth $50M tell me if you feel the same way then." Another reason is just plain old temptation. Nothing beats the rush of the first kiss. Some people just miss the adrenaline flow. It is analogous to other addictions in that sense. Some people are battling their own insecurities. They are not confident enough to be alone, but are not satisfied with what they have. So they keep hunting, without really worrying about the feelings of anyone but themselves. there's a lot more to say on the subject... but the last thing I would say is that the case I just mentioned can be avoided with a little introspection. If you are young and independent, you should have no reason to continue relationships when you are interested in other people. But the other cases arise due to intricacies that emerge after several years pass by, and a simple "Oops I feel attracted to someone else, I'm outta here" approach might not be pragmatic...

BlueAngel, I've read several times that you don't "understand cheating." Yes, cheating is wrong, but I think you are taking something that is complicated and trying to make it simple. i think one reason behind a lot of cheating is that people become trapped. They can't just break it off, so they dabble behind their spouse's back. People in marriage may grow apart, but maybe they are reluctant to split up because of kids, or maybe one is financially dependent on the other. Just because you can't leave doesn't mean you can suppress your feelings. Another situation is this: Both people start out equally attractive to one another, but over time one person becomes repulsive to the other. BTW, I have seen this happen to friends of both genders. Since there is a strong emotional bond, the person who is not attracted anymore is reluctant to bite the bullet. Along comes that handsome/beautiful stranger and then... Another reason for cheating unique to men is that when men become very rich and successful, they seem to like to date women half their age. A quick look through the news confirms this every day. I think it is deplorable, and speak out against this vocally. I told this once to someone much older than me, and he said "well, if you are 63 and worth $50M tell me if you feel the same way then." Another reason is just plain old temptation. Nothing beats the rush of the first kiss. Some people just miss the adrenaline flow. It is analogous to other addictions in that sense. Some people are battling their own insecurities. They are not confident enough to be alone, but are not satisfied with what they have. So they keep hunting, without really worrying about the feelings of anyone but themselves. there's a lot more I want to say but I'm getting too wordy...

Please listen to sirdante... In a few years you will be happy you did...

oops! jumped the gun there. I'm only a lonely "clubber"

OLD SKOOL!

how funny you mention that! I actually made my friend change his sneakers for shoes before we went out in case we went to a club, and we actually ended up at Exit. He complained a lot about it, but I guess I made a good call.

I disagree... Most people at these types of places are using alcohol as their drug of choice. Alcohol + exaggerated sense of self = Fight over nothing just waiting to happen. I personally feel much safer in the raver type clubs. At least ten guys aren't going to jump me because I stepped on one of their boys' $200 shoes when dancing

I've never been... My girlfriend went on a Saturday and told me that she absolutely f--kin hated it! As far as she described it, it was a drinking crowd full of blandly homogenous people -- the type who get a few beers in them and run around trying to convince girls that they are Donald Trump. As for the music, she said it was bad to mediocre, and she was particularly vexed when she heard that cheezy dog-barking song (I know, some of the people here like it if I remember the thread right. But in a club?)

I am 28 1/4, and unless I have an unexpected cataclysmic personality reversal in the next six months, I will be echoing your thoughts exactly come March. Dance away in the knowledge that others your age have the same thoughts!

I'm 28, my girlfriend is 34, and we love going out to clubs. Whoever talked about the ID thing, that's pretty funny. When she and I went to SF this weekend the bouncer took her ID and said "for real?" We both love to dance and we can't stand going to mainstream bars /cocktail parties where everyone looks the same and just stands around, so whatever. Enjoy it while you can!

I think maybe 30-50% of people on roids actually admit it. Most say "all natural, baby..." even when it is obvious that they can't be. If you take a look at Steve Reeves, John Grimek, and some of the other famous bodybuilders of the late 1940's (before roids), you get a good idea of what a great natural physique looks like. These guys were the best in the country. Steve Reeves won the Mr. America contest, and nowadays on a Sunday morning at SF you'll see 20 or 30 guys with better physiques than he had. Evolution or drugs... you be the judge. By simply comparing a guy's physique to these pictures, you can get a good idea of whether he is natural or not.