zlatang

hmm why is this drama? and why do you have the same quote as i do in your sig? are you a *follower*?

is it "who's the less stylish of the two?" or just uglier?

i love that pic in your post.... is it richmond?

LOL that was :laugh:

where did you get it?

nice...the jeans are a bit too much but the top is very nice

i wasn't being mean but just trying to make you think about what you said. all you claim is supported by what madonna said, but who can tell what she ACTUALLY thinks? i never buy into what celebrities say officially and "if you actually give a fuck and pay attention to the lyrics" you'll see how contradictory she can get. buying that means buying what she wants you to think about her, and that's what i'm questioning her. don't be a victim of a marketing campaign; if you feel like being a victim (we are all victims of something after all) then be aware of it and don't place too much faith into music that is made for making money (gawd i sound almost like a moralist here)

hmm what happened to that nice meek joeg i knew before? do you really have aids?

well not the worst but their styling is pretty bad, especially the glowsticks ... it's so yester-century-in-NJ

ok just a few questions: 1. did madonna herself told you she felt more R+B/jazzy after doing erotica? why would i trust you on that? or was it the press release that said it? 2. how do YOU know that whatever goies in her life "is seriously reflected in her music"? are you her personal friend (trainer?) or perhaps her agent? 3. do you have a little shrine devoted to madonna in your flat? or do you rather communicate with her while you both meditate on the new-age-puffed-up-cloud of *spirituality*?

back to the bitch mode heh? of course i do! didn't you read my info?

hmm what is "their own drum"? i doubt your all-american girl has any other drum but the one played (or -- hit!) by j-lo, b-spears and alike. and such beats strike me as trampy&unclassy. so it is not the question of having one's own identity, but adopting the identity (beat of the drum) of the others. sad! however i also would never indulge in correcting these things -- i have more important things to do + trash is always fun in low dosages....

if i were a lady from the upper east side (not that i'd like to be, just speculating) i'd NEVER BUY ANOTHER LV ITEM after they chose her to model from them. final verdict!

well i can only say that i respect your opinion too, but we seem to like totally opposite things in her opus. c'est la vie.

yes i agree. however then she is the american dream -- isn't she? and i like the use of past tense here ("she WAS pushing"..."she was one of the most influential...") and that is where the problem with her is....i think

it is excellent that you brought this up, because that is a part of my argument: erotica didn't sell well, it was way too much for the average joe (button-down-tucked-in preppy or a female version of it), and madonna got scared. after all, she was after getting joe's money. what did she do next? hire babyface (gawd) to commodify herself. and in a year she was on the cover of the 'my home' (or whatever cheesy name) magazine. that is the problem. i wonder what critics are you referring to -- the ones in europe loved the album. it was for the first time respected -- she was in 'the face' mag, she got all the stars in sex and erotica campaign materials, she said that she can't do a song with jackson because he "still wears white socks" -- in a word, she became a style icon on all levels. i presume that the conservative critics here, used to mariah carrey and alike were raving against such music....

wow this discussion is getting civilised! indeed perhaps i found one facet of hers (erotica) that i liked; what she did after that (and i am not here to judge it 'objectively') did not appeal to me. not because it wasn't 'controversial' but because music-wise it meant a return to something that i would call cheesy, or appealing to the mass-audience. perhaps madonna who i liked enever existed, and was a creature of her agents, but we shall never know that. i again don't understand you: what does the 'material girl' have to do with madonna's *spirituality*? do you think that 'like a virgin' is not comparable to 'thriller'? i would have a problem with that. or perhaps it is a path that i'm not familiar with... am i to see in 'like a prayer' traces of the 'ray of light' madonna? i hated her music then -- i thought it ranked her amongst the worst performers (only to be tollerable compared to rap) -- sorry that i expressed my opinion here! i was amazed how she emulated 'vogue' (actually stole it from mclaren) and appeared sophisticated. however in 'truth or dare' there is one scene in which she eats some kind of a soup out of a huge silver bowl, and there you can see it all -- by the way she is eating and holding the spoon, you cen see exactly where she is from. all the credits to jean paul and d&g, but certain things cannot be acquired easily. so to get back to your point- yess, i agree, she changed a lot, and perhaps a true admirer can see that as a continual process which comes from WITHIN her. what i see though is a manipulation with the american puritanism and conservativism, and that in a way annoys me. if that is an evolution, i would see it as a regressive one. however, if that makes her survive then she is the winner....in darwin's terms at least.

hey where can i hear the felix remix????

ok to correct myself -- it will never be over, but she's not nearly as good as she was...sadly

ok ms check-it-online-facts, lol. (how did you find time to do all this research?) i would have an issue here though -- how can one "flirt with taboo issues on the mainstream"? that's not clear -- i don't think one can be edgy AND mainstream. and did you mean that she flirts with the mainstream taboos? that would make more sense. anyway, i am sorry to say this, but after her 'ray of light' pseudo-spiritual (actually household-commodified) 'reinvention' i was disappointed. perhaps for the mainstream audience that was good -- she got rid of the S&M and all those crazy european-style videos... for me that was the moment of the final sale to the dreamers of the american dream, who still dwell in their little suburban houses and love to see madonna finally speaking to them. perhaps a longer stay in the UK will help her recover....

hmm ok it was a serious Q not a mean one. it seems one can't have a nice conversation with you. what i meant is that all american girsl want to rise from rags to stars and marry abroad... britney may be fresher, but she can't compare (looks&style-wise) to madonna. she is just trampy. but perhaps you are right -- that IS what the majority of american girls want to be (sadly).

i am afraid there may be truth in that...way too mainstream...pace iliana:rolleyes:

hmm i didn't make myself clear: a short period between vogue and erotica, (and this also expands to some of the songs from the bedtimestories), madonna was really edgy -- working with bjork, massive attact, having highly artistic video production and most importantly -- making the edge of club music accessible. but of course this didin't work and she didn't sell that kind of music (and image) well in the conservative US. hence: babyface and selling out to the mainstream. i did not of course think that songs "like a virgin" or "material girl" can be seen as anything else but cheap (yet cute) mainstream. but remember the autralian tour and her imitation of marlana dietrich -- that was art (in a way pop culture can be seen as art at all). so if you like her that much so as to put her sticker in your sig, give her some credit....

good ol' illiana, untaimed and vulgar as ever. anyway, i do have a question for you since i see tha madonna sticker: do you think she lives the american dream? i had a debate with my friends about this: i claimed all american girls would like to be like her -- to make it from trash to posh, move to europe and have a fake brit accent. am i right? (this is a serious question)

www.mtv.com i think erotica was her best...she sold herself to the mainstream after it....