Feelings on smoking ban in bars/clubs as of Nov.19th!!!

[vixenfoxxy]

Well... in response to the original purpose of this thread:

I'd really prefer to go home after a night of dancing and not reek like smoke. I think it would be great to drive home and close my eyes when I get into bed without having my eyes burning and stinging the whole time. This bill gets my OK!!!

[therealjr]

Originally posted by dr0ne

WRONG.

How about reading up on shit before talking out of your ass?

http://www.no-smoking.org/dec00/12-12-00-4.html

Northwest Airlines v Duncan, 531 US 1058; 121 S Ct 650

See if there's ANY claim of discrimination on there. This is strictly a public health issue. Employer's should go to reasonable lengths to provide a safe environment for their employee's. I'm not disputing that. That's the reasoning behind this. NOT discrimination. The courts wouldn't see this as discrimination against workers, they'd see this as an unsafe workplace.

Now let's put a nail on this coffin shall we?

http://www.lawsguide.com/mylawyer/guideview.asp?layer=3&article=161

"The ADA: A Long Shot

Some workers who are irked and injured by smoke on the job have sued for their injuries under the Americans With Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities. You are entitled to protection under this law only if you can prove that your ability to breathe is severely limited by tobacco smoke, making you physically disabled. "

Note the wording...."severely limited"

This basically means you can't use the ADA in this case 99% of the time. If you can find one court case where it was decided that a nonsmoker was being discriminated against feel free to post. Most of the time the ADA is used for smokers, who are discriminated against.....many companies refuse to hire smokers because that would increase the companies group coverage for health insurance. THAT's discrimination, and there are cases out there where it was decided that companies can't do that.

I used to work for Sound Factory. I can promise you that my lungs were severly damaged during the countless hours i spent in that place. It definatly "severly limited" my ability to breathe, but I can't prove that in a court of law, no one could prove that in a court of law.. . . .But, fuck the court of law. . .nonsmokers who are smart enough not to smoke shouldn't be limited in the places they go out for dinner, dancing, or just a few beers because some people aren't smart enough to quit smoking. It happened on planes, on movie theaters, in public buildings like schools and libraries. So we are going to get our Bars, Resturaunts, and Nightclubs back too. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

[djmikedr]

Originally posted by sutogame

bartender and waiters know that they will work with smoking customers. If they dont like it they should get another job besides speaking from experience as a waiter smokers tip alot more than nonsmokers.

What about DJ's?

[djmikedr]

Originally posted by therealjr

But, that is also my opinion on all drugs(yes nicotine is 1). They should all be legal and regulated by the F.D.A. That would severly lower the crime rate in this country. It should be legal to buy and own, but illegal to sell without a permit and tax id#. This way anyone that makes the decision to do this to themselves should have the ability to do so in the privacy of thier own homes. Then different buisness minded drug abusers can open establishments like the Hash Bars in Europe. They can be Cig. only, Amphetamine only, Marijuana only, Etc. Cafe's.

You are referring to decentraliziation. I believe in that.

Cigarettes annoy the non-smokers.

Other drugs do not. (well except weed).

[t0nythelover]

the law does see ciggarrette smoking as hazardous to workers and seeks to protect them. thats why the law was passed in california, the aruments were made yet the law was passed.

[Twilo Beauty]

Originally posted by PFloyd40

actually, a court would most likely see it the other way... it is a form of discrimination.. just as a person not making their establishment fit for the handicapped is discrimination...

maybe YOU should "get your facts straight before spewing ignorant rhetoric..."

To PFloyd4 and tonythelover:

Where did you guys go- To Manhattan's Community college law school??????????????????

Get your fucking facts straight. You sound like dumbass wannabe lawyers!

-iliana

[hotelie]

Go for it! No more stinking clothes the day after!!!

[Twilo Beauty]

As far as smoking goes, I'm a social smoker and I like having a cig with my drink sometimes. I have a right to do that, just like I have a right to destroy my liver when i'm getting smashed at the bar. SO what's the difference? At the bar other people will inhale my cigarette smoke and die thirty years from now. Outside, I have the potential to kill someone when i drive home drunk.

Solution: Outlaw everything and we'll only get cancer through tap water and fried foods.

Sounds fucking good to me.

-iliana

[sibelfille]

need link to the truth of the original thread-- this policy is actually going into effect??

[danamdkny]

i think thats a Crazy Idea- drinking and smoking really go hand in hand esp. with consumers and it will be bad for business - PLUS Bars and Clubs are the place for smoking - - they already banned it restaurants - at least give us our one santionary for indulgence in our vices-

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by iliana

As far as smoking goes, I'm a social smoker and I like having a cig with my drink sometimes. I have a right to do that, just like I have a right to destroy my liver when i'm getting smashed at the bar. SO what's the difference? At the bar other people will inhale my cigarette smoke and die thirty years from now. Outside, I have the potential to kill someone when i drive home drunk.

I didn't plan to get involved with yet another thread on this topic but the ignorance is too mind-numbing...

The difference is that with booze you are only imposing danger on yourself, unless you are DWI, which has been OUTLAWED (in theory). No one seems to understand that the needs of the community come before the needs of the individual.

FYI the original thread complete with back and forth arguments is http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122076

From my post on that thread:

The law is being passed to protect the health of employees and patrons. They are not even addressing the fact that it's a matter of common courtesy and respect for those around you.

If I like to listen to music really loud am I allowed to sit a boombox down on the bar next to you? No. Why? It annoys you and might damage your hearing. If my vice is to sit at a bar and poke myself with cocktail toothpicks while I have a pint is it my right to poke you with toothpicks also? I might enjoy that so why shouldn't you just sit there and tolerate it? You would probably find it annoying.

Jeez...it would be nice to see a bit of common sense instead of kids stomping their feet like 4 year olds:rolleyes:

[somebitch]

like i said before. there should be smoke bars & nonsmoke. while they are at it they should leagalize weed, which can be purchased @ smoking bars.

[Twilo Beauty]

Originally posted by brooklynkid

I didn't plan to get involved with yet another thread on this topic but the ignorance is too mind-numbing...

The difference is that with booze you are only imposing danger on yourself, unless you are DWI, which has been OUTLAWED (in theory). No one seems to understand that the needs of the community come before the needs of the individual.

FYI the original thread complete with back and forth arguments is http://bbs.clubplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122076

From my post on that thread:

The law is being passed to protect the health of employees and patrons. They are not even addressing the fact that it's a matter of common courtesy and respect for those around you.

If I like to listen to music really loud am I allowed to sit a boombox down on the bar next to you? No. Why? It annoys you and might damage your hearing. If my vice is to sit at a bar and poke myself with cocktail toothpicks while I have a pint is it my right to poke you with toothpicks also? I might enjoy that so why shouldn't you just sit there and tolerate it? You would probably find it annoying.

Jeez...it would be nice to see a bit of common sense instead of kids stomping their feet like 4 year olds:rolleyes:

What you label ignorance is only a matter of opinion. A person walking into a bar (and finding employment in one) has to know and ACCEPT that there will be cigarette smoke as well as drunken rowdy people that might annoy you. They walk in there knowing that there will be a live band playing, perhaps too loud for their liking, and they might walk out of there with ringing in their ears.

IF YOU are annoyed by cigarette smoke THEN STAY THE FUCK HOME! STAY THE FUCK OUT OF BARS, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF CLUBS.

DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME THAT MY SMOKING IS IMPOSING A HEALTH HAZARD ON YOU WHEN YOU DRINK ALCOHOL, DROP E, SMOKE WEED, SNORT K, OR HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX.

My message to you , no matter how childish and IGNORANT it might sound, is to stop being a fucking hypocrite. Stop Fucking telling me what to do and...

GO FUCK YOURSELF! .

{{Blowing cigarette smoke in your face}}

Have a (cough, cough) good day.

-iliana

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by iliana

What you label ignorance is only a matter of opinion. A person walking into a bar (and finding employment in one) has to know and ACCEPT that there will be cigarette smoke as well as drunken rowdy people that might annoy you. They walk in there knowing that there will be a live band playing, perhaps too loud for their liking, and they might walk out of there with ringing in their ears.

What if someone doesn't want to smell when they get home? Or worse, what if they have asthma or some other condition. Are they not entitled to enjoy themselves? And last time I checked, loud music may impair your hearing, but it won't kill you.

IF YOU are annoyed by cigarette smoke THEN STAY THE FUCK HOME! STAY THE FUCK OUT OF BARS, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF CLUBS.

If every non smoker listened to you there would be a lot of bars and clubs closing down due to lack of business. It's unbelievable how selfish some people can be...

DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME THAT MY SMOKING IS IMPOSING A HEALTH HAZARD ON YOU WHEN YOU DRINK ALCOHOL, DROP E, SMOKE WEED, SNORT K, OR HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX.

note that you said "WHEN YOU". Those are all things I would be making a conscious decision to do or not do. Not forcing it on other people. So what's your point now?

My message to you , no matter how childish and IGNORANT it might sound, is to stop being a fucking hypocrite. Stop Fucking telling me what to do and...

Ummm...no, read what I just said up above.

GO FUCK YOURSELF! .

{{Blowing cigarette smoke in your face}}

Have a (cough, cough) good day.

Temper tantrums....cute!

[somebitch]

Originally posted by brooklynkid

What if someone doesn't want to smell when they get home? Or worse, what if they have asthma or some other condition. Are they not entitled to enjoy themselves? And last time I checked, loud music may impair your hearing, but it won't kill you.

If every non smoker listened to you there would be a lot of bars and clubs closing down due to lack of business. It's unbelievable how selfish some people can be...

note that you said "WHEN YOU". Those are all things I would be making a conscious decision to do or not do. Not forcing it on other people. So what's your point now?

Ummm...no, read what I just said up above.

Temper tantrums....cute!

her argument is that you made the decision to go to te bar in the first place and you know people will be smoking there so if you dont want to be around smoke choose to go to a different place.

[Twilo Beauty]

If every non smoker listened to you there would be a lot of bars and clubs closing down due to lack of business. It's unbelievable how selfish some people can be...

note that you said "WHEN YOU". Those are all things I would be making a conscious decision to do or not do. Not forcing it on other people. So what's your point?

And it's real cute that you play stupid. My point is VERY CLEAR in

that statement.

You'll destroy your brain with e, k and coke, and in the future you'll suffer from depression and then you'll have to get medical help, and then PRECIOUS TAX DOLLARS WILL BE USED TO HELP IN YOUR TREATMENT...

The fact is, wether you smoke in public or snort coke in the privacy of your own home...'drug' use is a ripple effect.

So don't be too quick to judge smokers and ACCUSE us of your deteriorating health. Don't come at me like you're fucking straight- edge.

Here, share a newport with me while we ponder your blatant stupidity and hyposcrisy since we're all drug users at heart.

-iliana

(Wether

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by somebitch

her argument is that you made the decision to go to te bar in the first place and you know people will be smoking there so if you dont want to be around smoke choose to go to a different place.

I understand that, but I think it's a little narrow-minded for people to dismiss the argument by simply saying "non-smokers should just go somewhere else".

The only reason smoking isn't outlawed altogether is because the government makes billions in cig taxes. But that's a whole other thread.

Non-smokers are a majority of the population, believe it or not, and ultimately (not immediately) bar and club revenues will increase due to more people taking advantage of a clean-air environment. If you don't believe it go to LA for a while.

disclaimer: personally, I don't care whether the bill passes or not. I don't go out as much as I used to and when I do the places I go to are not that smokey. I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing because I think debate is healthy, unless of course one side's argument is only "go fuck yourself":D

[somebitch]

Originally posted by brooklynkid

I understand that, but I think it's a little narrow-minded for people to dismiss the argument by simply saying "non-smokers should just go somewhere else".

The only reason smoking isn't outlawed altogether is because the government makes billions in cig taxes. But that's a whole other thread.

Non-smokers are a majority of the population, believe it or not, and ultimately (not immediately) bar and club revenues will increase due to more people taking advantage of a clean-air environment. If you don't believe it go to LA for a while.

disclaimer: personally, I don't care whether the bill passes or not. I don't go out as much as I used to and when I do the places I go to are not that smokey. I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing because I think debate is healthy, unless of course one side's argument is only "go fuck yourself":D

i personally dont care much either. i smoke like 3 ciggs a week if that. i think it is kinda silly that everyone is going to preach no smoking and good health, then they are going to drink alcohol. what other reason do people go to a bar?

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by iliana

You'll destroy your brain with e, k and coke, and in the future you'll suffer from depression and then you'll have to get medical help, and then PRECIOUS TAX DOLLARS WILL BE USED TO HELP IN YOUR TREATMENT...

The fact is, wether you smoke in public or snort coke in the privacy of your own home...'drug' use is a ripple effect.

You seem to not understand the concept of free will. I have the right to put anything I want in my own lungs, stomach, veins, etc. but no one has the right to force anything on me.

And, if you look it up, E, K, and coke ODs are not even close to the top causes of death in this country (but wait...cancer and heart disease are!), so don't come at me with the tax dollars BS.

So don't be too quick to judge smokers and ACCUSE us of your deteriorating health. Don't come at me like you're fucking straight- edge.

Who is judging smokers? This isn't an anti-smoking campaign. This is about the rights of individuals and the issue of personal invasion.

Here, share a newport with me while we ponder your blatant stupidity and hyposcrisy since we're all drug users at heart.

You're the one poisoning your body and I'M the blatantly stupid one:rolleyes:

And no, not all of us are drug users at heart.

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by somebitch

i think it is kinda silly that everyone is going to preach no smoking and good health, then they are going to drink alcohol. what other reason do people go to a bar?

Well...let's be honest...preaching good health is not a BAD thing. The thing about alcohol is, it's harmless in small amounts. Shit, some people believe that a glass of wine a day will help you live longer.

People go to bars to socialize. If I'm sitting with you at a bar and having a cocktail or two, that's not annoying you, making you sick, making your eyes burn, or burning holes in your expensive clothes. Nor are the 400 drinks served a night doing any damage to the bartender's health.

No one involved with this law is interested in stopping smokers from smoking. There are enough billboards and commercials for that. This is about others around you being endangered involuntarily.

[Twilo Beauty]

Originally posted by brooklynkid

People go to bars to socialize. If I'm sitting with you at a bar and having a cocktail or two, that's not annoying you, making you sick, making your eyes burn, or burning holes in your expensive clothes. Nor are the 400 drinks served a night doing any damage to the bartender's health.

No one involved with this law is interested in stopping smokers from smoking. There are enough billboards and commercials for that. This is about others around you being endangered involuntarily.

Please stop with the melodrama

Unless you are in a bar that has 100 occupancy, and 99 people are smoking it does not get that bad in a bar.

Endangering people? Endagering is a loaded word. You're endangered crossing the street, driving your car, pluggin appliances into the wall. What's YOUR point?

Yes, I will use "go fuck yourself" as part of my argument because you were pointing the finger at smokers for the 'bad' health of workers at bars without discussing the fact that adults know what they are walking into when they work at these places.

It's like me wanting to cocktail at a strip joint and then suing them because I was offended by the nudity...

What are you a schmuck?

-iliana

[t0nythelover]

is it so hard to understand that second hand smoke is a danger and the government has the right to seek to protect the public against that. the whole argument that a non smoker should know that theres smoke in a bar and go somewhere else is ridiculous. whoever can say something like that really doesnt understand the concept of the law. im a smoker myself i dont think the law is so great but i understand why they want it passed. i find it funny that other smokers are attacking me for explaining why this law or ones like it would be passed

[sxyaznchiq]

Originally posted by iliana

Please stop with the melodrama

Unless you are in a bar that has 100 occupancy, and 99 people are smoking it does not get that bad in a bar.

Endangering people? Endagering is a loaded word. You're endangered crossing the street, driving your car, pluggin appliances into the wall. What's YOUR point?

true crossing the street can be a health risk. that is why people take precautions, ie crossing at the corner, paying attention to street signs/lights, look both ways before crossing.. whatever. drivers take care NOT to endanger the lives of others by following traffic rules.

what kind of precuations do smokers take in minimizing public risk when they light up?

[brooklynkid]

Originally posted by iliana

Please stop with the melodrama

How was I being melodramatic? I was merely pointing out why a lot of people (even some smokers) don't like being in a smokey bar. I think you're bringing the drama with the immature name calling...

Unless you are in a bar that has 100 occupancy, and 99 people are smoking it does not get that bad in a bar.

No, it really does, for some people who don't smoke at all.

Endangering people? Endagering is a loaded word. You're endangered crossing the street, driving your car, pluggin appliances into the wall. What's YOUR point?

My point is that I would be the one doing all those things. However, if someone enjoyed driving like a lunatic, and HIT ME when I DIDN'T ASK to be hit, then that driver is responsible. Should we allow people to drive on the sidewalk just because "they feel like it"? Why am I not allowed to drive through a residential neighborhood with loud music? Because it's an annoyance! Should we just tell the residents "if you don't like it, go live in another town"?

Yes, I will use "go fuck yourself" as part of my argument because you were pointing the finger at smokers for the 'bad' health of workers at bars without discussing the fact that adults know what they are walking into when they work at these places.

I take it you never debated anything seriously with anyone in your life. "GFY" pretty much means "I can't think of anything else to say so I'm going to stomp my feet and give up". Now surely adults knew what they were walking into when they took the bartending job, but now people are beginning to get fed up with the ill effects of working in that environment (just like flight attendants did in the 80s) and the politicians, in this ever-increasingly PC world, are beginning to listen. This is not even mentioning many people who are forced to now tend bar and wait tables in this shit economy...

It's like me wanting to cocktail at a strip joint and then suing them because I was offended by the nudity...

Will the nudity cause health problems somewhere down the line? If so, then you might have a case.

What are you a schmuck?

Cute:rolleyes:

[tastyt]

Originally posted by sxyaznchiq

true crossing the street can be a health risk. that is why people take precautions, ie crossing at the corner, paying attention to street signs/lights, look both ways before crossing.. whatever. drivers take care NOT to endanger the lives of others by following traffic rules.

what kind of precuations do smokers take in minimizing public risk when they light up?

You're confusing the situation by confronting her with facts...

Iliana, while you may be the resident drama queen, logical debate is obviously not your forte...

Anyhoo, I don't have a very strong opinion in either direction, I just have no idea how they are going to enforce this... I guess we'll all see next month.