My response to the mirage (Miami vs Ny) Scence Post

[georgeacasta2]

4 sure. I'll need your help finding a good salsa club. I don't know squat about the salsa scene. The only thing I know is that I hate it when it's to crowded cause you can't dance and I like the older style salsa better then the newer.

[ogmiami]

This is a great thread...

Dekan, you had a bad event. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you...deal with it.

Mistake #1. You did a weekday party at a new venue in a shitty section of the beach.

Mistake #2. You thought you promoted it well...you didn't. I live in the Grove and I'm on the beach every day and I never saw a flyer I never saw an ad.

Mistake #3. You promoted "TECHNO". While I admire your effort and conviction, there really is no market in Miami for Techno. I keep seeing peeps on this board asking for Carl Cox. Carl is a friend of mine and an amazing DJ but I've lost money doing shows with him in Miami twice.

Mistake #4. You thought CP would make an impact. I am a fan of most CPers and of the medium in general...but...There are not enough of them...they have limited $$$...they have jobs to go to the next morning. The reason I support CP when I am doing an event is that they add a vibe that I like and they care about the music.

Mistake #5. You thought that Sean Ink would draw people. There are just not that many Electronica saavy people out there. I doubt that there are 100 people in Miami who know who he is and would be willing to pay to hear him...much less on a weekday before a big holiday weekend.

Mistake #6. You promoted a new party with a relatively unknown DJ right before a holiday weekend when Hybrid, Ferry Corsten, Harvey, Q-Burns, Denny, PVD, Groove Armada and other BIG names were coming to town. How much money do you think people have?

I could go on but I'll stop there.

I have made my living for the last seven years doing this. I am part of the reason that there is a music scene here. I have done many events that were not commercial successes. WHAT I DID NOT DO WAS BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THE FAILURE.

Maybe You're right...maybe we're all just a bunch of lazy, mindless, worthless, ignorant fucks. Or maybe you just didn't do a very good job of promoting. If you don't like the scene here...LEAVE! Go back to NY and see how easy it is to promote that party there. Either that or do a better job next time of giving people what THEY want not what YOU want.

[happyface]

Originally posted by ogmiami

This is a great thread...

Dekan, you had a bad event. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you...deal with it.

Mistake #1. You did a weekday party at a new venue in a shitty section of the beach.

Mistake #2. You thought you promoted it well...you didn't. I live in the Grove and I'm on the beach every day and I never saw a flyer I never saw an ad.

Mistake #3. You promoted "TECHNO". While I admire your effort and conviction, there really is no market in Miami for Techno. I keep seeing peeps on this board asking for Carl Cox. Carl is a friend of mine and an amazing DJ but I've lost money doing shows with him in Miami twice.

Mistake #4. You thought CP would make an impact. I am a fan of most CPers and of the medium in general...but...There are not enough of them...they have limited $$$...they have jobs to go to the next morning. The reason I support CP when I am doing an event is that they add a vibe that I like and they care about the music.

Mistake #5. You thought that Sean Ink would draw people. There are just not that many Electronica saavy people out there. I doubt that there are 100 people in Miami who know who he is and would be willing to pay to hear him...much less on a weekday before a big holiday weekend.

Mistake #6. You promoted a new party with a relatively unknown DJ right before a holiday weekend when Hybrid, Ferry Corsten, Harvey, Q-Burns, Denny, PVD, Groove Armada and other BIG names were coming to town. How much money do you think people have?

I could go on but I'll stop there.

I have made my living for the last seven years doing this. I am part of the reason that there is a music scene here. I have done many events that were not commercial successes. WHAT I DID NOT DO WAS BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THE FAILURE.

Maybe You're right...maybe we're all just a bunch of lazy, mindless, worthless, ignorant fucks. Or maybe you just didn't do a very good job of promoting. If you don't like the scene here...LEAVE! Go back to NY and see how easy it is to promote that party there. Either that or do a better job next time of giving people what THEY want not what YOU want.

[laliux]

Originally posted by ogmiami

This is a great thread...

Dekan, you had a bad event. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you...deal with it.

Mistake #1. You did a weekday party at a new venue in a shitty section of the beach.

Mistake #2. You thought you promoted it well...you didn't. I live in the Grove and I'm on the beach every day and I never saw a flyer I never saw an ad.

Mistake #3. You promoted "TECHNO". While I admire your effort and conviction, there really is no market in Miami for Techno. I keep seeing peeps on this board asking for Carl Cox. Carl is a friend of mine and an amazing DJ but I've lost money doing shows with him in Miami twice.

Mistake #4. You thought CP would make an impact. I am a fan of most CPers and of the medium in general...but...There are not enough of them...they have limited $$$...they have jobs to go to the next morning. The reason I support CP when I am doing an event is that they add a vibe that I like and they care about the music.

Mistake #5. You thought that Sean Ink would draw people. There are just not that many Electronica saavy people out there. I doubt that there are 100 people in Miami who know who he is and would be willing to pay to hear him...much less on a weekday before a big holiday weekend.

Mistake #6. You promoted a new party with a relatively unknown DJ right before a holiday weekend when Hybrid, Ferry Corsten, Harvey, Q-Burns, Denny, PVD, Groove Armada and other BIG names were coming to town. How much money do you think people have?

I could go on but I'll stop there.

I have made my living for the last seven years doing this. I am part of the reason that there is a music scene here. I have done many events that were not commercial successes. WHAT I DID NOT DO WAS BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THE FAILURE.

Maybe You're right...maybe we're all just a bunch of lazy, mindless, worthless, ignorant fucks. Or maybe you just didn't do a very good job of promoting. If you don't like the scene here...LEAVE! Go back to NY and see how easy it is to promote that party there. Either that or do a better job next time of giving people what THEY want not what YOU want.

Great post. :alright:

[georgeacasta2]

great fawking post dade

[pod]

You want asses on the floor at your club night? In addition to the music folk? Well, seriously, you gotta promote beyond South Beach. Hit up UM and FIU...when I was a student at UM, the good DJ parties never advertised there...I found out about them through here and going to the beach during the day three or four times a week...those students have Daddy's dough and are ready to get wasted. There's also a good contingent of educated folk out there too obviously...you'll get a decent amount of people who can actually name the DJ. Don't actively promote it as a college night, you'll lose all respect that way, but at least flyer out there. Flyer up my way too...I live on 71st and Collins now, and I don't see a single flyer for any club up that way other than Space 34....and that's why Space 34 is successful, and other clubs struggle...Space realizes there's more to nightlife than the immediate neighborhood and the little sandbar of decadence across the bay.

Dade is right...CP and the other boards are wonderful, but the audience is limited...it's preaching to the choir...don't rely on the boards exclusively for promotion.

Though in the end, your event might just flop anyway...it happens! Learn from it and move on to the next one.

[sobeton]

Originally posted by ogmiami

Mistake #3. You promoted "TECHNO". While I admire your effort and conviction, there really is no market in Miami for Techno. I keep seeing peeps on this board asking for Carl Cox. Carl is a friend of mine and an amazing DJ but I've lost money doing shows with him in Miami twice.

while I agree with most your points. this one was glaring out!

there is market for Techno; it just has to be marketed correctly. how can you say there is no market for techno, when the Miami market is so diverse? people where saying there was no market for house anymore in Miami, when Trance rained supreme. some how House managed, to rise to the top again.

how difficult would it be for a club like crobar or Space, which has a built in audience. To open the night with an up and coming Techno DJ. although I use techno as point, this can be applied to any genre. you expose people to something they would not normally, have ventured out to hear. Space did this a few weeks back, with DJ Christos. although he hit pretty hard, he managed to drop some sick west coast style underground beats, and folks where going crazy. they do this type of stuff in NY all the time. All it takes is some balls, and moving out the comfort zone for a bit!

If club owners and prompters are complacent, then scene will mirror that. IMO that is awful.

[eKiTeL]

Originally posted by ogmiami

You promoted "TECHNO". While I admire your effort and conviction, there really is no market in Miami for Techno. I keep seeing peeps on this board asking for Carl Cox. Carl is a friend of mine and an amazing DJ but I've lost money doing shows with him in Miami twice.

whoa, did he really? I totally missed that.... if I had known it was Techno I would have been there for sure!

actually I think Techno can work, but not on South Beach, and not traditional Techno, just book Miss Kitten to spin at Soho or I/O and watch them pack it in with minimal promotional effort, a John Selway retro/techno set could work there as well, though it would require more effort

Now a local DJ who can mix a little Techno with other styles might be able to make some inroads.... hit me up for my latest demo if you want to hear what I'm talking about

[ogmiami]

Originally posted by sobeton

while I agree with most your points. this one was glaring out!

there is market for Techno; it just has to be marketed correctly. how can you say there is no market for techno, when the Miami market is so diverse? people where saying there was no market for house anymore in Miami, when Trance rained supreme. some how House managed, to rise to the top again.

how difficult would it be for a club like crobar or Space, which has a built in audience. To open the night with an up and coming Techno DJ. although I use techno as point, this can be applied to any genre. you expose people to something they would not normally, have ventured out to hear. Space did this a few weeks back, with DJ Christos. although he hit pretty hard, he managed to drop some sick west coast style underground beats, and folks where going crazy. they do this type of stuff in NY all the time. All it takes is some balls, and moving out the comfort zone for a bit!

If club owners and prompters are complacent, then scene will mirror that. IMO that is awful.

I'm not sure what your point is. You are talking about "building a market for Techno" by having a quality Techno DJ open at S34 or Crobar. What he was trying to do was promote a Techno party. There's a big difference. If you are building a market for anything, you better have patience and money to lose until it gets going.

Club owners and promoters are all trying to give people what they want. The problem is that most people today want Hip Hop. Just compare the sales of Hip Hop to that of Dance and it gets pretty clear. Smart club owners and promoters find an audience that they can please and stick to that. People, especially Pod, are always ragging on Opium but they are the most successful club on the Beach. They do the occasional "music" event but their bread and butter is the VIP crowd.

What Dekan did was say "I love Techno and I am going to throw a Techno party because Techno is the best". That's great. There were many times that I did events at Shadow because I loved the DJ or style. I could do that because I owned the club and could decide, if I chose to, to develop a sound or just do it for personal pleasure. Sometimes it worked...sometimes it didn't. BUT I NEVER BLAMED THE CUSTOMERS ESPECIALLY NOT THE CP CREW WHO ARE A BIG PART OF THE MINORITY IN THIS TOWN WHO LOVE THE DANCE SCENE.

[eKiTeL]

Originally posted by sobeton

while I agree with most your points. this one was glaring out!

there is market for Techno; it just has to be marketed correctly. how can you say there is no market for techno, when the Miami market is so diverse? people where saying there was no market for house anymore in Miami, when Trance rained supreme. some how House managed, to rise to the top again.

how difficult would it be for a club like crobar or Space, which has a built in audience. To open the night with an up and coming Techno DJ. although I use techno as point, this can be applied to any genre. you expose people to something they would not normally, have ventured out to hear. Space did this a few weeks back, with DJ Christos. although he hit pretty hard, he managed to drop some sick west coast style underground beats, and folks where going crazy. they do this type of stuff in NY all the time. All it takes is some balls, and moving out the comfort zone for a bit!

If club owners and prompters are complacent, then scene will mirror that. IMO that is awful.

yeah you've got to get people going there in the first place for something familiar, and then hit them with something a bit different unexpectedly, I think that's what can really make a venue stand out, great point there Sobe! the opening slot should be for something interesting, not just complacent same old shit, look at me I'm the local resident 'cause I want to be, and I've got the connections... openers should have balls and the will to make a fresh and uniquely entertaining musical statement

[sobeton]

Originally posted by ogmiami

I'm not sure what your point is. You are talking about "building a market for Techno" by having a quality Techno DJ open at S34 or Crobar. What he was trying to do was promote a Techno party. There's a big difference. If you are building a market for anything, you better have patience and money to lose until it gets going.

Club owners and promoters are all trying to give people what they want. The problem is that most people today want Hip Hop. Just compare the sales of Hip Hop to that of Dance and it gets pretty clear. Smart club owners and promoters find an audience that they can please and stick to that. People, especially Pod, are always ragging on Opium but they are the most successful club on the Beach. They do the occasional "music" event but their bread and butter is the VIP crowd.

What Dekan did was say "I love Techno and I am going to throw a Techno party because Techno is the best". That's great. There were many times that I did events at Shadow because I loved the DJ or style. I could do that because I owned the club and could decide, if I chose to, to develop a sound or just do it for personal pleasure. Sometimes it worked...sometimes it didn't. BUT I NEVER BLAMED THE CUSTOMERS ESPECIALLY NOT THE CP CREW WHO ARE A BIG PART OF THE MINORITY IN THIS TOWN WHO LOVE THE DANCE SCENE.

I thought my point was rather clear, but anyway I’ll explain further. I as stated I agreed with your points, except the one, which I quoted:

Originally posted by ogmiami

You promoted "TECHNO". While I admire your effort and conviction, there really is no market in Miami for Techno. I keep seeing peeps on this board asking for Carl Cox. Carl is a friend of mine and an amazing DJ but I've lost money doing shows with him in Miami twice.

I am well aware of what Pete is trying to do, and his frustration with the same. we grew up in a scene, which is not like Miami’s scene. we came from a scene, where you where exposed to many genres of music, and had a more receptive audience. you and I both know ,this is not the case in Miami. I am not saying the Miami scene is bad, it is just very limiting, and way to political. thus trying to showcase new talent, and genres of music is a major problem.

my suggestion was instead of throwing small parties, in which the attendance would be limited. use a foundation already in place, and build on that.

I get really annoyed when people say, "where giving the people what they want ". well my question would be, did you ever ask them what they want? or are we just making assumptions based strictly on "head counts".

it is common place to have a up and coming DJ open, for the House DJ in places like the UK, New York, etc. that’s how DJ’s like Danny Howells, DT, Tiesto, etc broke through. long before they ever had a CD out. somebody took a chance. .

So hence my point "If club owners and prompters are complacent, then scene will mirror that. "

" Keep It fresh and Interesting they will come "

[miaminice]

Originally posted by southof5th

If you want to play on South Beach, you need to pull in the right crowd...I don't get all the hate on this board about Nikki Beach, Mynt, Shoreclub, Opium, and Crobar, or Bed.

Nightlife here is very much about people first, music second, but in general the music played if it's dance music (i.e. not hip hop) is pretty good. Not PURISTS fucking elite good (except for Space) but still pretty cutting edge.

I know no one likes Mynt here, but that is a banging party, people dancing on couches etc...and the music is fierce in the main room. The fact that the girls are hot-as-hell there doesn't make it a worse party.

The fact is this has ALWAYS been the case. What you don't think Liquid pulled a glam crowd?? There has ALWAYS been door policies on the beach.

Don't blame the Miami crowd cuz your party doesn't blow up...you obviously didn't target the right people...

People might not be as adventurous in trying new things here...people flock to what is established and they know is the hot shit at the moment. How can you blame them when there are places that deliver?

I'm 100% agree with above comments.

I lived in NYC for about 8 years and moved to Miami 3 years ago.

The parties and hottest women as I have seen here in Mynt, Prive, Nikki and BED never seen in "top of the line" clubs in NYC.

Of course people are lazy and laid back here in Miami, this is normal, all warm climate people are lazy and laid back.

The difference between NYC and Miami nightlife is not comparable.

The crowd and the way they party over there is different than here.

If you want to pick the "NYC type" crowd in Miami you should know the "right" people at the "right" time and the "right" place.

[stormentgroup]

love the post dade...................but why waste the time, you got mad patience and i give you props..............all i have to say is "new jacks" .. it saves tons of typing and explaining.............next time they should take their 6 people and move them to nerve with the rest of the "new jacks"

15 customers + 5 bosses + 4 new jacks = what a night

[guyman1966]

Originally posted by pod

... and star-fuckers usually aren't welcome here...

Thank you for the NIN reference.

[fliptoniaaa]

Originally posted by guyman1966

Thank you for the NIN reference.

:laugh:

[saintjohn]

don't forget the rolling stones - "star, star."

yeah, i know, your parents weren't even alive back then.

[mrmatas2277]

Originally posted by ogmiami

Mistake #2. You thought you promoted it well...you didn't. I live in the Grove and I'm on the beach every day and I never saw a flyer I never saw an ad.

infact i heard this complaint alot....not from people that live here, but friends of mine that came from NYC for Labor day and they said they didnt see ANY flyers ANYWHERE on the beach...and they stayed on the beach....

[sirdickenson]

Originally posted by stormentgroup

15 customers + 5 bosses + 4 new jacks = what a night

Damn!!! Seems as if you have the formula for failure down to an exact science. No wonder, you were part of that formula!!! I can see why Nerve is actually succeeding now, you are not part of them anymore.

I got a new formula for you:

Washed up Ex-Dj + Over the Hill + Chip on his Shoulder = Michael Storms

Yup, that formula seems about right.

[blendprod]

Originally posted by sirdickenson

Damn!!! Seems as if you have the formula down to an exact science. No wonder, you part of that formula!!! I can see why Nerve is actually succeeding now, you are not part of them any more.

I got a new formula for you:

Washed up Ex-Dj + Over the Hill + Chip on his Shoulder = Michael Storms

Yup, that formula seems about right.

:laugh: :laugh:

[digital7]

Originally posted by sirdickenson

Damn!!! Seems as if you have the formula for failure down to an exact science. No wonder, you were part of that formula!!! I can see why Nerve is actually succeeding now, you are not part of them anymore.

I got a new formula for you:

Washed up Ex-Dj + Over the Hill + Chip on his Shoulder = Michael Storms

Yup, that formula seems about right.

wow

[sobeton]

Originally posted by sirdickenson

Damn!!! Seems as if you have the formula for failure down to an exact science. No wonder, you were part of that formula!!! I can see why Nerve is actually succeeding now, you are not part of them anymore.

I got a new formula for you:

Washed up Ex-Dj + Over the Hill + Chip on his Shoulder = Michael Storms

Yup, that formula seems about right.

ouch ! :laugh:

[tranzwhore]

The Scene is What You Make of It!

[sandiegino]

werd

[rcrespo]

FACE it you wont find a quality, local, amazing vibe party in MIAMI, I challenge someone to find one for me. And thats what NY has and thats what makes the Scene, and thats what will keep the scene. SOBE is DEAD, maybe dowtown will emerge

yes i know I do a sunday party and it doesn't bring the biggest talent in the world but we do something different and try to push the envelope with locals and guests . I don't blame anyone for the failures except myself and sometimes a really bad weather night. Sunday was a complete surprise and maybe we just got lucky but the place was jumping till 4am. It's all about word of mouth advertising if people like your party they will tell their freinds and come back regardless who is playing. Whatever happened to supporting a good night because of the music and the people who were there enjoyed it? I know this is miami and sometimes it can be rough but i'm not in this for money .. hell we don't even have flyers out yet, but I look forward to every sunday and I try to help out those who i can and I think will fit the sound of the night .. sometimes things don't work and you just have to get back and rethink things. A night is an ever changing process .. you can't get it perfect there is always room for improvement.

thats my 2 cents.

so if you want something different and exciting in a small intimate venue come check us out on sundays upstairs @ jazid.

no guestlist no bullshit just music.

[funketeer]

Originally posted by saintjohn

don't forget the rolling stones - "star, star."

yeah, i know, your parents weren't even alive back then.

kinda like a fly I was up way up in the sky...