We Got Saddam. Big Deal.

[djxeno]

By Matt Hutaff

When Iraqi Administrator Paul Bremer got up and announced to the world "We got him!" was he talking about Saddam Hussein or another four years with George W. Bush?

Really, Hussein’s capture is a political windfall for the president during a time of increasing public opposition to the war. Disastrous fallout over barring non-coalition countries from reconstruction efforts. Thousands of wounded soldiers. Body bags that will not be televised. Silly Thanksgiving photo ops gone awry.

What better way to turn eight months of brutal subjugation around than by having the mother of all public relations coups?

In less than 24 hours, the images of a disheveled and out-of-it Saddam Hussein have been broadcast on every local news outlet, across the cable channels and around the world. Hell, it even managed to bump Michael Jackson allegations out of the A block for a night, and it gave pundits the ability to blather ceaselessly over trivial minutiae and ponder Hussein’s fate over and over and over and over again.

It’s the perfect way to distract the public from the larger issues while still giving them the impression they’re engaged in world issues.

Even better, it’s one thing to finally cross out on the checklist of things to do in Iraq, since the whole premise of being there -- namely, finding "weapons of mass destruction" (now the most tiresome phrase in the English language) -- has proven to be a complete bust. The Bush administration no longer even acknowledges that as a pretext for invasion, as the story has morphed over the past few months from weapons programs to weapons documents to intent to create weapons.

Forget that our troops are malnourished, poorly outfitted (families are buying flak jackets for their sons and daughters since the Army won’t), and deprived of the rotations they desperately need to maintain a family life as well as their sanity. All of these things are unimportant, after all. We captured Saddam.

A tattered, beaten man hiding in an 80-square-foot hole.

I hope I’m not the only one to see this as yet another cynical ploy by the current administration to buoy Bush’s sagging public image with another burst of nationalistic fury. The election’s in November, and the Democrats are starting to galvanize a resistance to the corporate-friendly atmosphere at the White House. Protestors are slamming the image of American Empire enough times that the idea is taking hold.

Meanwhile, Bush is still invoking September 11 as his motive to "secure" America, when it’s been documented a thousand different ways Iraq had nothing to do with it.

Make no mistake -- this country is still spiraling downward. Capturing a renegade despot won’t bring jobs back to this country that have fled for cheaper pastures. Corporations will still continue to undermine the environment and the democratic process thanks to campaign contributions that buy deregulation.

If Hussein’s arrest is such a cause celebré, can we now roll back all the freedom-infringing legislation that’s been passed in the past two years? The USA Patriot Act, the COINTELPRO-style powers granted the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the detention of hundreds of suspected terrorists without due process -- all that can go away now, right?

After all, Bush himself said yesterday at his perfectly timed last press conference of the year that his outline of goals regarding the liberation of Iraq was "to make this country more secure and the world more free."

Well, Iraq’s secure and free now. The United States is certainly more secure without Saddam Hussein running around… uh, sitting around in a tiny bunker. There’s no need for the continued terror alerts, ridiculous security measures and a general sense of dread rumbling through the populace.

"You can understand why people feared him," Bush said in the same speech. "After all, he stayed in power by fear -- by ruling through fear."

It’s fortunate that the people in the United States are never afraid of its government. I know every time I see the footage of people peacefully engaging civil disobedience only to be shot with rubber bullets and tear-gassed by police in stormtrooper outfits I shouldn’t be afraid. When the government seizes my records, reads my e-mail, performs wiretaps or looks at every book I check out of a public library for terror links, I don’t fear a thing.

And now, with Saddam Hussein in the gulag awaiting his inevitable trial and execution, I live a blissfully fear-free existence. The world is good. I don’t ever have to worry about the thousands of shortcomings our country faces financially because we’re paying to rebuild a country we devastated.

Because we captured Saddam. We took him, photographed him, searched him for cyanide tablets, and shaved his thick beard so he’d resemble the photos we’ve come to identify with pure evil. We mocked his stench, we praised the crack team for not only finding him, but also for supplying the movie-ready phrase, "President Bush sends his greetings."

It feels good to bask in Americana. And now that we’ve rid Iraq of evil, we’ll naturally let the citizens of that free and promising republic govern themselves, right? We’ll be pulling out our troops and, of course, the pirating of their natural resources will end. After all, the Iraqis will gladly join together under an umbrella of democracy. Religious fundamentalism won’t result in brutal civil war at all.

Oh, wait. We’re going to "stay the course?" When are the troops coming home then? Their mission is accomplished.

After all, they captured Saddam. Killing thousands, poisoning tens of thousands and destroying billions in property -- it was all worth it. It will raise Dubya’s chances of getting re-elected.

Neat.

[pattbateman]

if we didnt catch him you would bitch about that.

we cant win

[djxeno]

i didn't write the article.

dont make an ass of yourself by assuming things.

[pattbateman]

it was in general.

you obviously have some what of an agreement with the article since you posted it.

im not making an ass outta myself

[djxeno]

Well, I was against the war in the first place, so whether we have Saddam or not to me seems pointless.....you can argue blah blah he was a tyrant whatever....but there are many ppl just like him in the world.

it is hypocritical to go after him and not the others, since he did not commit one single act of war against the UNITED STATES.

[xpyrate]

great post xeno ...

pattbatemann ... you need to read that quote in your sig more carefully cause it argues our point better than it does yours ... "internal invader" ... think about it

[jamiroguy1]

Originally posted by xpyrate

great post xeno ...

pattbatemann ... you need to read that quote in your sig more carefully cause it argues our point better than it does yours ... "internal invader" ... think about it

I concur

[cintron]

one down.

Makes me wonder what shot through Kim Jong Il's mind over in North Korea when those pics popped up on tv.

damn - i'm watching a special on the atrocities of his regime.

over 400,000 of his own people killed during his regime for being political dissidents. They're showing footage of bulldozers pushing stacks of bodies into ditches. man.

that, the electric torture in jails, beatings, crucifixtion [i'm serious - turn on the history channel], tongues cut off for being members of a different political party. Torture using acids. Shit this stuff is insane.

They're interviewing this doctor who Saddam asked in 1979 to create an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. the guy refused to do it and spent 22 days and nights in a torture cell. He was tortured so badly, he was paralyzed upon his release. All becuase he refused to build nukes for Iraq. Makes me wonder if Saddam would torture the head of his country's weapons program, how he can claim he doesnt and never looked for WMD. The guy is giving the interview from a wheelchair. I think i'll be taking his word over saddam's. The saddest thing is, he was one of hundreds of thousands tortured, but only one of a handful who survived.

this is crazy shit. reminds me of the kind of thing you'd see at a place like Auschwitz.

[xpyrate]

also makes me wonder why he didn't use his hypothetical weapons of mass destruction on u.s. forces when we came to take him out of power

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

Well, I was against the war in the first place, so whether we have Saddam or not to me seems pointless.....you can argue blah blah he was a tyrant whatever....but there are many ppl just like him in the world.

it is hypocritical to go after him and not the others, since he did not commit one single act of war against the UNITED STATES.

I could not disagree with you more.......

(1) It is a BIG DEAL that we have Saddam, for multiple, significant reasons. And even if you were against the war, you should recognize that. You should not seek to diminish what is a historic moment, even if you were anti war (Unless you were pro-Saddam Hussein)

(2) Yes there are some ppl in the world just like him. But to again diminish the fact that the world is down one less animal by saying there are others like him is absurd.

The U.S. gets killed for being the world's cop or the U.S. gets killed for not being the world's cop. The U.S. gets killed for over-reaching and then the U.S. gets killed for not taking every bad guy out.

Just because there are "other bad guys" does not mean the U.S. should not take out a "bad guy" when it can. And the U.S. should not refrain from taking out a "bad guy" just because others exist as well.

"The reason why the United States takes on so many responsibilities in the world is because others shirk those responsibilities." "Those who will not venture out when there is a criminal coming down the street should not complain when somebody else acts as the policeman."

William Haugue

British Parliament

(3) And I could not disagree with you more about Iraq not committing one single act of war against the U.S.

For starters, Iraq NEVER adhered to the 1991 ceasefire agreement, and continued to fire upon U.S. warplanes patroling the no-fly zones, that the U.N. set up. These were acts of war, and legally, Iraq and the United states (and the 1991 coalition) remained in state of war.

Or how about the assassination attempt of former President Bush. You do not consider an assassination attempt on a U.S. President as an act of war?......Clinton did....IMO--this incident does not get enough play.

If you want to disagree with the war that is fine. But for you or anyone else who was antiwar to discount the removal of Saddam Hussein and diminish its meaning need to do some soul seaching.

[cintron]

Originally posted by xpyrate

also makes me wonder why he didn't use his hypothetical weapons of mass destruction on u.s. forces when we came to take him out of power

youre joking right?

that's like saying you're going to pull a gun on a man who has a howitzer to your head.

if he used WMD on us, we would have retaliated on an unimaginible level. Probably not with WMD in kind, but even so - we fought that war with our gloves on.

would you prefer he did and killed thousand of soldiers, just so we could prove you wrong?

ass.

[eccentricmofo]

Originally posted by djxeno

Well, I was against the war in the first place, so whether we have Saddam or not to me seems pointless.....you can argue blah blah he was a tyrant whatever....but there are many ppl just like him in the world.

it is hypocritical to go after him and not the others, since he did not commit one single act of war against the UNITED STATES.

I rarely post anymore in these threads becuase posted topics are so across the board with 8 different points being brought up that it is mere impossible to follow at times.

So for my intention to simplify, Ill do just that.

djxeno, aside from the issues of WMD's or lack there of etc. From a moral standpoint you wouldnt agree that he was a bad man and was appropriately taken out of power?

Whether its are God given right is unrelevant to my point. Generally and simply Im saying that bad people shouldnt be in power, and for my opinion with our meddling in the middle east.

I believe that the means are less important then the outcome.

For a reference to one of those old hypothetical scenarios...

Would you personally kill 10 young children, IF it meant that you (beyond a shadow of any doubt) would be saving 10,000?

I would.

it would be tough, Im not saying it would be easy but what ever happened to compassion on a world level?

Ok, Im being hypocritical with going all over the place here. But Im curious of your opinion...

[djxeno]

Originally posted by eccentricmofo

I rarely post anymore in these threads becuase posted topics are so across the board with 8 different points being brought up that it is mere impossible to follow at times.

So for my intention to simplify, Ill do just that.

djxeno, aside from the issues of WMD's or lack there of etc. From a moral standpoint you wouldnt agree that he was a bad man and was appropriately taken out of power?

Whether its are God given right is unrelevant to my point. Generally and simply Im saying that bad people shouldnt be in power, and for my opinion with our meddling in the middle east.

I believe that the means are less important then the outcome.

For a reference to one of those old hypothetical scenarios...

Would you personally kill 10 young children, IF it meant that you (beyond a shadow of any doubt) would be saving 10,000?

I would.

it would be tough, Im not saying it would be easy but what ever happened to compassion on a world level?

Ok, Im being hypocritical with going all over the place here. But Im curious of your opinion...

Well, you have to ask yourself was it really worth it. I will agree with you in saying he was a brutal, sick man.

He killed hundreds on innocent people. But he also did numerous good things for that country. He built the largest military of any midde east country, mondernized baghdad and opend up alot of hospitals.

Also, he was the only Arab leader who had the balls to stand up for the Palestinian cause.

Yes he was a sick and twisted man, but look at what has happened now. First of all, there was no indication that the Iraqi's wanted him out of power. I know he ruled with a tight fist, and the only ppl who probably wanted him out of power were the Kurds and Shiites, who were a minority.

Also, over 8000 Iraqi civilians have died, and if the U.S really wanted to help the Iraqi people and liberate them, they wouldn't have dropped countless "CLuster bombs" and they woulndn't have used there "Shock and Awe" campaign.

We all know that Saddam's army was no match for the U.S. army, so why the "Shock and Awe" and cluster bombs? Seems to me they were trying to kill as many people as they could with those two policies.

and again, the war has cost us over 90 billlion dollars, no WMD have been found, and U.S. soldiers are dying everyday ?

and for what? just cause we got an evil dictator ? do we really care about the Iraqi ppl ?

Innocent Palestians die everyday under the hands of Sharon and nothing happens right ?

why all of a sudden did we start caring for the iraqi ppl ? - IF THAT"S THE CASE - which I don't believe it is.

and another thing, if the U.S. eventually does find WMD's....even if Saddam had them....there's is no way he could attack the U.S. with them.

And i will ask you another thing....many countries have WMD's so why can't Saddam have them ?

its okay for the U.S to invade another country and use WMD's on them but its not okay for another country to even try to pursue them ?

and i know you are going to say that Saddam invaded Kuwait and would use the weapons to take over the middle east right ?

well, the only country who ever attacked every country that surrounds its boarders is ISRAEL, which is allowed to have WMDs.

its pure hypocrisy...now that Iraq is taken care of, the only power in the Middle East is Israel, and nobody has the balls or power to stop them.

I fear that the Palestinians will eventually go the way of the Native Americans.

-XeNo-

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

Well, you have to ask yourself was it really worth it. I will agree with you in saying he was a brutal, sick man.

He killed hundreds on innocent people. But he also did numerous good things for that country. He built the largest military of any midde east country, mondernized baghdad and opend up alot of hospitals.

Also, he was the only Arab leader who had the balls to stand up for the Palestinian cause.

Yes he was a sick and twisted man, but look at what has happened now. First of all, there was no indication that the Iraqi's wanted him out of power. I know he ruled with a tight fist, and the only ppl who probably wanted him out of power were the Kurds and Shiites, who were a minority.

Also, over 8000 Iraqi civilians have died, and if the U.S really wanted to help the Iraqi people and liberate them, they wouldn't have dropped countless "CLuster bombs" and they woulndn't have used there "Shock and Awe" campaign.

We all know that Saddam's army was no match for the U.S. army, so why the "Shock and Awe" and cluster bombs? Seems to me they were trying to kill as many people as they could with those two policies.

and again, the war has cost us over 90 billlion dollars, no WMD have been found, and U.S. soldiers are dying everyday ?

and for what? just cause we got an evil dictator ? do we really care about the Iraqi ppl ?

Innocent Palestians die everyday under the hands of Sharon and nothing happens right ?

why all of a sudden did we start caring for the iraqi ppl ? - IF THAT"S THE CASE - which I don't believe it is.

and another thing, if the U.S. eventually does find WMD's....even if Saddam had them....there's is no way he could attack the U.S. with them.

And i will ask you another thing....many countries have WMD's so why can't Saddam have them ?

its okay for the U.S to invade another country and use WMD's on them but its not okay for another country to even try to pursue them ?

and i know you are going to say that Saddam invaded Kuwait and would use the weapons to take over the middle east right ?

well, the only country who ever attacked every country that surrounds its boarders is ISRAEL, which is allowed to have WMDs.

its pure hypocrisy...now that Iraq is taken care of, the only power in the Middle East is Israel, and nobody has the balls or power to stop them.

I fear that the Palestinians will eventually go the way of the Native Americans.

-XeNo-

This may be the most ignorant post I have ever read.

You are actually offering a defense for Saddam Hussein????

He did numerous good things for teh country??????He built hospitals??????.....For who, the people he tortured, raped, and maimed...

He modernized an army??????????For starting wars and invading countries, and building WMD that he used..

He only kiiled "hundreds of innocent people???????????Reaaly, so out of the estimated 300,000-1 million people buried in mass graves, only hundreds are "innocent"

Are you fucking kidding me????????? Your stance is unreal and simply mind boggling......

He was the only Arab leaders to stand up for the Palestinians?.....Are you kidding me?...What thh fuck are you talking about?....If you thinking providing $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers or lobbing SCUDs at Israel is standing up for the "true" Palestinians people, you are lost, seriously lost....

"shock and awe" was about killing as many people as possible?....ARe you kidding me? Where the fuck do you get your ideas from??

No indication that the Iraqi people wanted him out of power??????...DO you live under a rock?.....

The only people who wanted him out of power were Kurds and Shiites, and they were a minority?????...Are you kidding me?????Minority?????..How fucking clueless can you be??????

The only country that attacked other countries that surrounds its borders is Israel???????...are you kidding me??????...Where did you pick up that world history, a HAMAS textbook?

The whole WMD debate, and why Israel has them and why Iraq should not and the bigger issue of weapons proliferation is another debate... one you are obviously ill equipped to have.

Yur post has to be the most ridiculous, inaccurate post I have ever read.....absolutely mind boggling and scary that you can be this blind.

Also, good job avoiding my response to your first absurd post. And you do so to produce this stack of shit?...

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

This may be the most ignorant post I have ever read.

You are actually offering a defense for Saddam Hussein????

He did numerous good things for teh country??????He built hospitals??????.....He modernized an army??????????He only kiiled "hundreds of innocent people???????????

Are you fucking kidding me????????? Your stance is unreal.

He was the only Arab leaders to stand up fpr the Palestinians?.....Are you kidding me?...What teh fuck are you talking about?....If you thinking providing $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers or lobbing SCUDs at Israel is standing up for the "true" Palestinians people, you are lost, seriously lost....

"shock and awe" was about kiiling as many people as possible?....ARe you kidding me? Where the fuck do you get your ideas from??

No indication that the Iraqi people wanted him out of power??????...DO you live under a rock?.....

The only people who wanted him out of power were Kurds and Shiites, and they were a minority?????...Are you kidding me?????Minority?????..How fucking clueless can you be??????

The only country that attacked other countries that surrounds its borders is Israel???????...are you kidding me??????...Where did you pick up that world history, a HAMAS textbook?

The whole WMD debate, and why Israel has them and why Iraq should not and the bigger issue of weapons proliferation is another debate... one you are obviously ill equipped to have.

Yur post has to be the most ridiculous, inaccurate post I have ever read.....absolutely mind boggling

thank you, your opinion is highy valued in these circles.

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

thank you, your opinion is highy valued in these circles.

I added a little more to it, so enjoy further.

By the way retard, I was not staing an opinion. I was pointing out an accurate fact that you do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Good job putting it out there. Clear demonstration that you are completely lost and a fool.

[djxeno]

your previous post so off base it doesnt even merit a response. you talk about how Iraq violates treaties, agreements, etc.....but i guess you forgot this war is illegal in the first place.

if violating a treaty is an act of war than i dont know how many acts of war the U.S. has commited against other countries.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

I added a little more to it, so enjoy further.

By the way retard, I was not staing an opinion. I was pointing out an accurate fact that you do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Good job putting it out there. Clear demonstration that you are completely lost and a fool.

yeah i know. you are very predictable, you can't get your insults right the first time.

[igloo]

Originally posted by djxeno

your previous post so off base it doesnt even merit a response. .

Dude, you should stop now. Your goal has been reached, there can be no doubt you are a clown.

And uneducated schmuck beyond belief. You provided the ultimate proof with this thread.

Respond all you want, and try and spin all you want...but your clueless jibberish and moronic thinking is there for all to see.

[djxeno]

Originally posted by igloo

Dude, you should stop now. Your goal has been reached, there can be no doubt you are a clown.

And uneducated schmuck beyond belief. You provided the ultimate proof with this thread.

Respond all you want, and try and spin all you want...but your clueless jibberish and moronic thinking is there for all to see.

great. just the way i want it.

[mr mahs]

Originally posted by djxeno

Well, you have to ask yourself was it really worth it. I will agree with you in saying he was a brutal, sick man.

He killed hundreds on innocent people. But he also did numerous good things for that country. He built the largest military of any midde east country, mondernized baghdad and opend up alot of hospitals.

Also, he was the only Arab leader who had the balls to stand up for the Palestinian cause.

Yes he was a sick and twisted man, but look at what has happened now. First of all, there was no indication that the Iraqi's wanted him out of power. I know he ruled with a tight fist, and the only ppl who probably wanted him out of power were the Kurds and Shiites, who were a minority.

Also, over 8000 Iraqi civilians have died, and if the U.S really wanted to help the Iraqi people and liberate them, they wouldn't have dropped countless "CLuster bombs" and they woulndn't have used there "Shock and Awe" campaign.

We all know that Saddam's army was no match for the U.S. army, so why the "Shock and Awe" and cluster bombs? Seems to me they were trying to kill as many people as they could with those two policies.

and again, the war has cost us over 90 billlion dollars, no WMD have been found, and U.S. soldiers are dying everyday ?

and for what? just cause we got an evil dictator ? do we really care about the Iraqi ppl ?

Innocent Palestians die everyday under the hands of Sharon and nothing happens right ?

why all of a sudden did we start caring for the iraqi ppl ? - IF THAT"S THE CASE - which I don't believe it is.

and another thing, if the U.S. eventually does find WMD's....even if Saddam had them....there's is no way he could attack the U.S. with them.

And i will ask you another thing....many countries have WMD's so why can't Saddam have them ?

its okay for the U.S to invade another country and use WMD's on them but its not okay for another country to even try to pursue them ?

and i know you are going to say that Saddam invaded Kuwait and would use the weapons to take over the middle east right ?

well, the only country who ever attacked every country that surrounds its boarders is ISRAEL, which is allowed to have WMDs.

its pure hypocrisy...now that Iraq is taken care of, the only power in the Middle East is Israel, and nobody has the balls or power to stop them.

I fear that the Palestinians will eventually go the way of the Native Americans.

-XeNo-

They should deport this parasite back to palestine...

This message has to be the most backward retarded thing I have ever read...

[djxeno]

Originally posted by mr mahs

They should deport this parasite back to palestine...

This message has to be the most backward retarded thing I have ever read...

haha, care to say why ?

id love to go to palestine, palestinian girls got the phat @sses.

[skince55]

Originally posted by djxeno

Well, you have to ask yourself was it really worth it. I will agree with you in saying he was a brutal, sick man.

He killed hundreds on innocent people. But he also did numerous good things for that country. He built the largest military of any midde east country, mondernized baghdad and opend up alot of hospitals.

Also, he was the only Arab leader who had the balls to stand up for the Palestinian cause.

Yes he was a sick and twisted man, but look at what has happened now. First of all, there was no indication that the Iraqi's wanted him out of power. I know he ruled with a tight fist, and the only ppl who probably wanted him out of power were the Kurds and Shiites, who were a minority.

Also, over 8000 Iraqi civilians have died, and if the U.S really wanted to help the Iraqi people and liberate them, they wouldn't have dropped countless "CLuster bombs" and they woulndn't have used there "Shock and Awe" campaign.

We all know that Saddam's army was no match for the U.S. army, so why the "Shock and Awe" and cluster bombs? Seems to me they were trying to kill as many people as they could with those two policies.

and again, the war has cost us over 90 billlion dollars, no WMD have been found, and U.S. soldiers are dying everyday ?

and for what? just cause we got an evil dictator ? do we really care about the Iraqi ppl ?

Innocent Palestians die everyday under the hands of Sharon and nothing happens right ?

why all of a sudden did we start caring for the iraqi ppl ? - IF THAT"S THE CASE - which I don't believe it is.

and another thing, if the U.S. eventually does find WMD's....even if Saddam had them....there's is no way he could attack the U.S. with them.

And i will ask you another thing....many countries have WMD's so why can't Saddam have them ?

its okay for the U.S to invade another country and use WMD's on them but its not okay for another country to even try to pursue them ?

and i know you are going to say that Saddam invaded Kuwait and would use the weapons to take over the middle east right ?

well, the only country who ever attacked every country that surrounds its boarders is ISRAEL, which is allowed to have WMDs.

its pure hypocrisy...now that Iraq is taken care of, the only power in the Middle East is Israel, and nobody has the balls or power to stop them.

I fear that the Palestinians will eventually go the way of the Native Americans.

-XeNo-

wow, you should probably get your facts straight before you ever post any historical information again.

[djxeno]

tell me where i was wrong.

[skince55]

Originally posted by igloo

Where did you pick up that world history, a HAMAS textbook?

:laugh: