Bottom Line

[djsienpileggi]

well i would definetely like to come and check it out.. The only taste of B boy battles were when I used to play at Emergency Room on Monday nights.. that was where i could spin hard breaks and old school.. and they could do their thing...

Im sorry about not explaining myself clearly about the Ghetto part.. that was an unfinished thought..Was just meaning that , THE GHETTO is where HIP HOP was born ... was speaking about the authenticity of taking an Element from the GHETTO and showcasing it in an upscale fancy las Vegas Hotel...

I saw you pass through TABU on Friday, but was busy with Luca in the booth and i couldnt speak with you.. but i will come by either this sunday or next.. Didnt you have another event on a different night with b boys and b girls.. i vaguely remember a flyer i saw a few months or half a year back

[marcblemberg]

well i would definetely like to come and check it out.. The only taste of B boy battles were when I used to play at Emergency Room on Monday nights.. that was where i could spin hard breaks and old school.. and they could do their thing...

Im sorry about not explaining myself clearly about the Ghetto part.. that was an unfinished thought..Was just meaning that , THE GHETTO is where HIP HOP was born ... was speaking about the authenticity of taking an Element from the GHETTO and showcasing it in an upscale fancy las Vegas Hotel...

I saw you pass through TABU on Friday, but was busy with Luca in the booth and i couldnt speak with you.. but i will come by either this sunday or next.. Didnt you have another event on a different night with b boys and b girls.. i vaguely remember a flyer i saw a few months or half a year back

Ask for me at the door when you come in so i can meet you.

DJ-P goes on @ 1am

Mr freeze

Rock steady crew

[vegasbabie]

well i would definetely like to come and check it out.. The only taste of B boy battles were when I used to play at Emergency Room on Monday nights.. that was where i could spin hard breaks and old school.. and they could do their thing...

Really? And how long have you been living in Vegas? There's B-boy battles and a good hiphop party going on every first friday downtown @ Beauty Bar.

I guess my point on what Mr. Freeze is doing is trying to educate and let the public know what real hip-hop is. It's cool that people like to dance to 50 cent, and lil john or whatever is on music videos and the radio. i like it too when i'm drunk....but they should also know what hip-hop is about from the jump and what it represents. It's not about money, it's not about grinding each other's private parts, it's not about looking hot with your new implants, it's not about showing off how much money and how many bottles you can afford at the club. It's about self expression and friendly compititions to see where you stand amongs other people. Whether that would be in dancing, rapping, djing, or in any kind of art form. It's about being creative with what you have. And that is what real hip-hop is about.

[greenie]

I guess my point on what Mr. Freeze is doing is trying to educate and let the public know what real hip-hop is.

...

It's about being creative with what you have. And that is what real hip-hop is about.

He's got a funny way of "educating." Yeah, shitting on what everyone else does is a real way to make people feel welcome to take part in an evening of "friendly competition."

Nobody, not one person, on this board has put down Slide Sundays for what it is. In fact, most people here have given full credit to the event. But Freeze feels a need to put down every other club, event and musical style.

If "real hip-hop is about being creative with what you have" and doing so "in any kind of art form," then what's so bad about other types of music? Or other venues? Or DJ tools?

[lalate]

He's got a funny way of "educating." Yeah, shitting on what everyone else does is a real way to make people feel welcome to take part in an evening of "friendly competition."

Nobody, not one person, on this board has put down Slide Sundays for what it is. In fact, most people here have given full credit to the event. But Freeze feels a need to put down every other club, event and musical style.

If "real hip-hop is about being creative with what you have" and doing so "in any kind of art form," then what's so bad about other types of music? Or other venues? Or DJ tools?

No, its worse than that. He's the official licensing board for using the word hiphop. Just like you cant say "Swiss time" unless you go before that 700 year old Swiss watch-making board, you cant use the term hiphop unless you meet his approval. He should come up with his own approval seal.

[djsienpileggi]

Really? And how long have you been living in Vegas? There's B-boy battles and a good hiphop party going on every first friday downtown @ Beauty Bar

Well actually I have been living in Vegas for 9 years now.. Just started spinning about 4 years ago (started spinning with Miss Joy) So the only event I knew of at the time was AJ's.. then we went to BJ's.. .then went to Emergency room.. and then I changed my music style and started focusing on playing out, so I did lose touch with the BBoy groups and where they were getting down at.. Didnt even know of a Beauty Bar at the time.. First time I heard of it was when I played there a few months back for the AJ Jeans promo party with Chris Garcia and DJ LOVE..

cool place though...

[vegasbabie]

If "real hip-hop is about being creative with what you have" and doing so "in any kind of art form," then what's so bad about other types of music? Or other venues? Or DJ tools?

I have never said anything bad about using DJ tools such as digital format music: serato or cd players and what not. Mr. Freeze is old school, and he'll stick to the OG for life. But as for me, I am flexable as long as there's creativity put into the making of the art. What Mr. Freeze is trying to do is show what the world hip-hop really means. OPM represents the media hip-hop, which is money, alochol, and jiggy music that you listen to on the radio. Tabu represents the real hip-hop, what it really means, b-boys, djs, mc, funk/soul music (which made what "hip-hop" music sound like today) and it provides a place that is different from all other clubs.

[greenie]

OPM represents the media hip-hop, which is money, alochol, and jiggy music that you listen to on the radio. Tabu represents the real hip-hop, what it really means, b-boys, djs, mc, funk/soul music (which made what "hip-hop" music sound like today) and it provides a place that is different from all other clubs.

Sounds like you should be the one promoting Slide Sundays on the boards. And on flyers, for that matter, which only minimally suggest what you mention. That's telling it like it is and note the differences without resorting to BS.

That said, the media is not alone in what constitutes the current state of hip-hop. The artists and the fans have all gone along for the ride the whole time, and with few objections.

Also it should be said that one of the things that I like about OPM is that for the most part, it's only early in the evening there that you hear more "radio-friendly" (or radio-common) tracks. Once things get past 1am, most of the tracks are probably heard on perhaps a dozen stations around the country. And certainly not VH1.

[djmasterweb]

Thanks Greenie for that clarification (and for all of your posts). The irony of this whole conversation is that OPM's format is probably the *least* radio-friendly Hip-Hop in Vegas. We rarely drop any "G-unit" after 1am. Not sure what DJ-P mashes into his mixes at Tabu, but if it was anything like his (impressive) set at Studio 54, it's all familiar top 40 from the past and present. After 1am, OPM focuses mainly on regional music like Bay Area (Hyphy movement) and real dirty South that one may hear on KXHT in Memphis but not in a music video, and hard hitting beats that you would NEVER hear at another club in Vegas. And you'll hear that mixed in with dancehall, reggae roots and other music formats that do not include top 40 or current radio.

[vegasbabie]

Sounds like you should be the one promoting Slide Sundays on the boards. And on flyers, for that matter, which only minimally suggest what you mention. That's telling it like it is and note the differences without resorting to BS.

That said, the media is not alone in what constitutes the current state of hip-hop. The artists and the fans have all gone along for the ride the whole time, and with few objections.

Also it should be said that one of the things that I like about OPM is that for the most part, it's only early in the evening there that you hear more "radio-friendly" (or radio-common) tracks. Once things get past 1am, most of the tracks are probably heard on perhaps a dozen stations around the country. And certainly not VH1.

They still play radio stuff...doesn't matter if they only play it only at certain radio stations or certain regions. They are still on the radio. They are catering to a specific crowd. I am not dissing on the music they play. I like the E40, Federation, and Mac Dre...and the dirty south shit. Believe it or not, all the clubs are playing that shit now.

But if they are about true hip hop, which they are not, and I think it's kind of disappointing, is why don't they play any Afrika Bambaataa, George Clinton, Herbie Hancock, Erick B. Rakim, early LL Cool J (1984), Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Lyrics Born (he did a remix w/ E40). Play some G-Funk for crying out loud!!!!

OPM does created a certain vibe and catering to a certain that kind of niche market. But they still play radio hit songs. If it wasn't for the billboard chart hits OPM would not last.

[outofthebox]

But if they are about true hip hop, which they are not, and I think it's kind of disappointing, is why don't they play any Afrika Bambaataa, George Clinton, Herbie Hancock, Erick B. Rakim, early LL Cool J (1984), Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Lyrics Born (he did a remix w/ E40). Play some G-Funk for crying out loud!!!!.

I guess you never attended their Thursday night OLD SCHOOL party in the Orchid Room, in which they play ALL of that stuff! You see there's a difference between 1986 and 2006. Is it so hard for you to grasp that old school has a big place on the map, but it's not the WHOLE map. Unreal.

[outofthebox]

Also, I cannot believe I am watching you argue that a Vegas hip-hop club should not play radio friendly music. Do we live in the same city???? Fine, call it fake. You guys can cry all day long about whats real and fake, this town isn't built on culture from 1986 (you'll notice all the buildings getting knocked down). It's built on paying the bills today. Get over it.

[vegasbabie]

I guess you never attended their Thursday night OLD SCHOOL party in the Orchid Room, in which they play ALL of that stuff! You see there's a difference between 1986 and 2006. Is it so hard for you to grasp that old school has a big place on the map, but it's not the WHOLE map. Unreal.

ah, excuse me my not so informed friend....Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Lyrics Born (he did a remix w/ E40) are not old school. Get it? God it? Good.

Okay since you've been to old school thursday nights, why don't you write me an review about it. And please be constructive...don't say "I think it is a good night and people are having fun". Tell me what they are playing, what kind of vibe, what kind of crowd, who is djing, what is the highlight of the night.

Also, I cannot believe I am watching you argue that a Vegas hip-hop club should not play radio friendly music. Do we live in the same city????

When did I say that? When did I say Club SHOULD NOT PLAY RADIO HITS I said specifically:

I am not dissing on the music they play. I like the E40, Federation, and Mac Dre...and the dirty south shit....

So read it and understand it first before you reply.

[

Fine, call it fake. You guys can cry all day long about whats real and fake, this town isn't built on culture from 1986 (you'll notice all the buildings getting knocked down). It's built on paying the bills today. Get over it.

Exactly, and we will call it fake. And you just admitted the fact that these types of club are based on making money. It sure pays the bills, I can't argue with that, but that's not my point.....pointdexter.

[outofthebox]

I've been trying to keep this on topic but your apparent anger is so great you can't keep it from getting personal I guess? Get over it. The world is changing. It's 2006. It's a capitalist society. Money will always be a factor. You live in the greediest city in the world. Again get over it and don't take it so personal.

Edit: Here's the part of your post you edited out. I guess you were ashamed of your own reaction?

(I can't beleive I am hearing this. You know what?! It is because of people like you: doesn't appreciate anything but the green color in wallet, that why the hip-hop culture is dying. You don't understand anything that I am talking about. You have no clue about keep the culture alive and respect the founding fathers of any kind of culture or movement. All you care about is your reputation amongst your friends, looking all metro-sexual out, and masterbate to old women with fake boobs and 13 year-old girls!!!! I was nice to you in the beginning, but I am not going to be nice to YOU anymore. You are playing with fire now....don't you think that I can't find out who you are either.)

[vegasbabie]

I've been trying to keep this on topic but your apparent anger is so great you can't keep it from getting personal I guess? Get over it. The world is changing. It's 2006. It's a capitalist society. Money will always be a factor. You live in the greediest city in the world. Again get over it and don't take it so personal.

Edit: Here's the part of your post you edited out. I guess you were ashamed of your own reaction?

(I can't beleive I am hearing this. You know what?! It is because of people like you: doesn't appreciate anything but the green color in wallet, that why the hip-hop culture is dying. You don't understand anything that I am talking about. You have no clue about keep the culture alive and respect the founding fathers of any kind of culture or movement. All you care about is your reputation amongst your friends, looking all metro-sexual out, and masterbate to old women with fake boobs and 13 year-old girls!!!! I was nice to you in the beginning, but I am not going to be nice to YOU anymore. You are playing with fire now....don't you think that I can't find out who you are either.)

hello!! that's why i edited out, because that was my anger talking. I didn't want to take it personally. This is just a message board. If you want to take it personally, which I think you do, you can. I edited that out because I have enough respect and didn't want to lower myself to your level. But it seems like you have just lowered yourself even more, so low that your knees are dirty cuz your sucking my dick!!!!!

[outofthebox]

I'd rather not make it personal, but can you just clarify one thing... Are you a tranny OK back to business. You feel popular hip-hop is not the ultimate validation of the original culture? You feel that in a capitalistic society, money is not the strongest driving force for any popular art form?

[vegasbabie]

I'd rather not make it personal, but can you just clarify one thing... Are you a tranny OK back to business. You feel all popular media is not the ultimate validation of the original culture? You feel that in a capitalistic society, money is not the strongest driving force for any popular art form?

I have not idea what a tranny is...but I guess you do....you know that they say, it takes one to know one.

And no...i don't think money is the strongest drive in any kind (popular or underground) art form. It is a feeling that an artist thrives on when he/she achieves a goal. Unfortunately there is no word to describe that, nor should I spend the time to explain it to you. And for those "artist" that thrive on money as their drive to create and master their art, then it's not art anymore. Get it? No....it's okay, once you graduate from the "out of the box" dj kit to the real deal, then maybe you will.

[outofthebox]

Well this is the core of our disagreement, so maybe we can agree to disagree (without all your attempted condescending personal attacks).

In my eyes, we enjoy life in a city (and a country) where people and businesses capitalize on "popular culture," the content of which is determined by the daily interactions, needs and desires, and cultural 'moments' that make up the everyday lives of the mainstream.

Your narrow viewpoint represents one view of what is "real" and what is "fake."

My view is that popularity is not an indication of "fake" but instead a validation of what's "real" to the masses, who just so happen to be the people paying the bills to help the economy in which we benefit.

[outofthebox]

And when I say money is a driving force, I'm not saying that it must compromise the art. I'm saying that artists have the greatest chance of succeeding if they provide a product that people WANT, DESIRE or NEED.

Many people look at a song like "LAFFY TAFFY" as pure garbage but they fail to recognize WHY it became so popular. The song makes many people feel GOOD. The casio sounding music is CATCHY to many people. The beat is very unique and awesomely easy to move to. The lyrics are a killer HOOK to many. The fact that a song could succeed on so many levels with such a SIMPLE background is in itself a perfect indication of ART. The group didn't try to OVERPRODUCE the track. They put together a product using their own creative minds, and the masses bought into it. How is that NOT art even though YOU may dislike it? Is it FAKE just because you think it sucks or it doesn't honor the forefathers of hip-hop from 1975?

[outofthebox]

Vegasbabie and Freeze, do you feel the following is inaccurate?

In modern urban mass societies, popular culture has been crucially shaped by the development of mass production, the introduction of new technologies of sound and image broadcasting and recording, and the growth of mass media industries -- the film, broadcast radio and television, and the book publishing industries, as well as the print and electronic news media.

But popular culture cannot be described as just the aggregate product of those industries; instead, it is the result of a continuing interaction between those industries and those who consume their products.

Popular culture is constantly changing and is specific to place and time. It forms currents and eddies, in the sense that a small group of people will have a strong interest in an area of which the mainstream popular culture is only partially aware; thus, for example, the electro-pop group Kraftwerk has "impinged on mainstream popular culture to the extent that they have been referenced in The Simpsons and Father Ted."

Items of popular culture most typically appeal to a broad spectrum of the public. Some argue that broad-appeal items dominate popular culture because profit-making companies that produce and sell items of popular culture attempt to maximize their profits by emphasizing broadly appealing items. And yet the situation is more complex. To take the example of popular music, it is not the case that the music industry can impose any product they wish. In fact, highly popular types of music have often first been elaborated in small, counter-cultural circles (punk rock or rap would be two examples).

[marcblemberg]

Vegasbabie and Freeze, do you feel the following is inaccurate?

In modern urban mass societies, popular culture has been crucially shaped by the development of mass production, the introduction of new technologies of sound and image broadcasting and recording, and the growth of mass media industries -- the film, broadcast radio and television, and the book publishing industries, as well as the print and electronic news media.

But popular culture cannot be described as just the aggregate product of those industries; instead, it is the result of a continuing interaction between those industries and those who consume their products.

Popular culture is constantly changing and is specific to place and time. It forms currents and eddies, in the sense that a small group of people will have a strong interest in an area of which the mainstream popular culture is only partially aware; thus, for example, the electro-pop group Kraftwerk has "impinged on mainstream popular culture to the extent that they have been referenced in The Simpsons and Father Ted."

Items of popular culture most typically appeal to a broad spectrum of the public. Some argue that broad-appeal items dominate popular culture because profit-making companies that produce and sell items of popular culture attempt to maximize their profits by emphasizing broadly appealing items. And yet the situation is more complex. To take the example of popular music, it is not the case that the music industry can impose any product they wish. In fact, highly popular types of music have often first been elaborated in small, counter-cultural circles (punk rock or rap would be two examples).

I have to say outbox that was very well said.

I just want to know what book or article you got that from?

The culture of hip hop is the same that it was back in 1970 nothing has changed its still pure.

Or when you have clubs calling them self's up scale hip hop and then a girl goes on the radio saying hayyy its ya girl halla.

Thats some thing new or should i say getto

Makes me sick..

Mr freeze

Rock steady Crew

Mr freeze

Rock steady crew

[vegasbabie]

In modern urban mass societies, popular culture has been crucially shaped by the development of mass production, the introduction of new technologies of sound and image broadcasting and recording, and the growth of mass media industries -- the film, broadcast radio and television, and the book publishing industries, as well as the print and electronic news media.

I agree, but that's pop culture you're talking about. Not hip-hop culture. Hip-hop will always be involved with 4 elements: DJ, MC, Graffiti, and B-Boy. All of these elements have nothing to do with pop cultures. The introduction of new technologies of sound, image broadcasting and recording and all those things you have mentioned only reflexes on how the skills are being developed within each of those elements. DJs might have better turntables, CD players, digital programs, better mixers, cheaper way to get music (downloading); MCs can use EFX box to change they way they sound; Graffiti writers can go to more places and have more options of specially made tips to write on walls or tag, B-Boys/Girls can learn the moves quicker because they are able access videos on TV or internet. But the technology, or the growth of mass media industries doesn't take away or add more elements into the mix of HIP-HOP culture.

But popular culture cannot be described as just the aggregate product of those industries; instead, it is the result of a continuing interaction between those industries and those who consume their products.

So? What does this have to do with hip-hop culture? Pop culture it shaped by the interactions of the media related industries. Hip hop cultures is shaped by the 4 elements.

Popular culture is constantly changing and is specific to place and time. It forms currents and eddies, in the sense that a small group of people will have a strong interest in an area of which the mainstream popular culture is only partially aware; thus, for example, the electro-pop group Kraftwerk has "impinged on mainstream popular culture to the extent that they have been referenced in The Simpsons and Father Ted."

Very true!!! Kraftwerk was a significant in the evolution of the urban music. But that's only one single aspect of hip-hop. It didn't affect the graffiti writers, didn’t affect the MCs, and didn’t affect the B-Boys. DJs might be playing the music that derived from Kraftwerk but it did not change the culture itself.

Items of popular culture most typically appeal to a broad spectrum of the public. Some argue that broad-appeal items dominate popular culture because profit-making companies that produce and sell items of popular culture attempt to maximize their profits by emphasizing broadly appealing items. And yet the situation is more complex. To take the example of popular music, it is not the case that the music industry can impose any product they wish. In fact, highly popular types of music have often first been elaborated in small, counter-cultural circles (punk rock or rap would be two examples).

Well of course. Do you think that CEOs of all the record company know how to produce rap, pop, or rock songs themselves? Hell no. They look at which singer, rap artists, or band that they think could sell, and then they blow them up by advertising them on the radio, magazine, and TV. But where do you think those artists came from? The underground scene of course. And what I mean that is they came from the unknown regions, like little kids singing on Disney shows, and competitors on star search and such.

Again, everything you have mentioned is related to pop-culture, which is exactly what OPM is. It is a Pop culture based club. So saying that hip-hop cultures is changing? Wrong!!! Pop culture is changing; hip-hop culture will always stay the same. And OPM is saying that is a Hip-Hop club is just a corporate term to appeal to the masses.

So again, what Mr. Freeze is promoting is a real HIP HOP based night unlike any other clubs could offer. Except for graffiti, but if you want to bring in your tagging book, that’s considered as graffiti.

[greenie]

But if they are about true hip hop, which they are not, and I think it's kind of disappointing, is why don't they play any Afrika Bambaataa, George Clinton, Herbie Hancock, Erick B. Rakim, early LL Cool J (1984), Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Lyrics Born (he did a remix w/ E40). Play some G-Funk for crying out loud!!!!

The last few times that I've mentioned hearing DJs in Vegas pulling out tracks from artists like People Under the Stairs, Latyrx, Pharcyde, and Del, your buddy Freeze shat on me simply for bringing it up.

[outofthebox]

OK I think we are making progress here. All I'm trying to say is that in Las Vegas, pop culture drives our nightlife. If your only beef is based on a semantic term then I think we can coexist without tearing each other's eyes out. Let's just remember, the argument is over a TERM. All the other insults, are just insults and should stop here. Pop culture is still based on art forms, just not by your definition of "hip-hop culture." OK so we can agree on this. You and Freeze can stand in the Forum Shops holding a sign "OPM is all about pop culture, you will party with sexy people, hear songs you know and love, but no originals from 1982 and no breakdancing by 38 year old forefathers, and for chrissake they use cds and serato like several other forefathers but we'll still hate it OK!" And then we're all happy

I agree, but that's pop culture you're talking about. Not hip-hop culture. Hip-hop will always be involved with 4 elements: DJ, MC, Graffiti, and B-Boy. All of these elements have nothing to do with pop cultures. The introduction of new technologies of sound, image broadcasting and recording and all those things you have mentioned only reflexes on how the skills are being developed within each of those elements. DJs might have better turntables, CD players, digital programs, better mixers, cheaper way to get music (downloading); MCs can use EFX box to change they way they sound; Graffiti writers can go to more places and have more options of specially made tips to write on walls or tag, B-Boys/Girls can learn the moves quicker because they are able access videos on TV or internet. But the technology, or the growth of mass media industries doesn't take away or add more elements into the mix of HIP-HOP culture.

So? What does this have to do with hip-hop culture? Pop culture it shaped by the interactions of the media related industries. Hip hop cultures is shaped by the 4 elements.

Very true!!! Kraftwerk was a significant in the evolution of the urban music. But that's only one single aspect of hip-hop. It didn't affect the graffiti writers, didn’t affect the MCs, and didn’t affect the B-Boys. DJs might be playing the music that derived from Kraftwerk but it did not change the culture itself.

Well of course. Do you think that CEOs of all the record company know how to produce rap, pop, or rock songs themselves? Hell no. They look at which singer, rap artists, or band that they think could sell, and then they blow them up by advertising them on the radio, magazine, and TV. But where do you think those artists came from? The underground scene of course. And what I mean that is they came from the unknown regions, like little kids singing on Disney shows, and competitors on star search and such.

Again, everything you have mentioned is related to pop-culture, which is exactly what OPM is. It is a Pop culture based club. So saying that hip-hop cultures is changing? Wrong!!! Pop culture is changing; hip-hop culture will always stay the same. And OPM is saying that is a Hip-Hop club is just a corporate term to appeal to the masses.

So again, what Mr. Freeze is promoting is a real HIP HOP based night unlike any other clubs could offer. Except for graffiti, but if you want to bring in your tagging book, that’s considered as graffiti.

[vegasbabie]

The last few times that I've mentioned hearing DJs in Vegas pulling out tracks from artists like People Under the Stairs, Latyrx, Pharcyde, and Del, your buddy Freeze shat on me simply for bringing it up.

For reall? What did he say?

Pop culture is still based on art forms, just not by your definition of "hip-hop culture." OK so we can agree on this. You and Freeze can stand in the Forum Shops holding a sign "OPM is all about pop culture, you will party with sexy people, hear songs you know and love, but no originals from 1982 and no breakdancing by 38 year old forefathers, and for chrissake they use cds and serato like several other forefathers but we'll still hate it OK!" And then we're all happy

Pop culture is based on popularity of commodities. Not art forms. I have never heard OPM and sexy people in the same senence, but hey that's just my personal opionion. I never said I hate OPM and I never dissed on serato or CD djs. I dis on DJs that doesn't expand their skills or try to expand their skills beyond of what they have now.