**UPDATED 3** Recent examples of a collapsing club scene:

[V. Barbarino]

vipguestlist is dead

cooljunkie numbers are dying fast, I put them on warning that after march they may need cpr, so they need to fix it well before march.

njguido has about 1% club content on it and is pretty much dead.

clubplanet is a freaking ghost town, what ass clown thought it was a good idea to spend money and redoing that site which launches soon? They should call it CP Beta Max.

Local djs schedules are done, all except RR and Cedric. I swore I saw OG and Ralph working at 7/11 the other day, maybe this is why OG grew that beard?

Tiesto at Mansion "broke even" which means he will never play Miami again outside of WMC.

Is WMC even happening this year?

Are the Bang guys really selling blood and semen to pay off their huge debt? The promoters should have printed fake tickets.

Did LP pay off that 500k he lost on GG last year? Maybe this explains why he booked Parantula and the door guy to dj, times are tough!

GG is done, they won't have it this year, Nick should take GG off the forum headers already so the "punters" don't get confused. I nor UMF or the rest of the planet is fooled into thinking it's happening.

UMF is so lost, 2 days and they booked the Cure? The guys who booked the Cure probably decided to re do CP, lol Only way they make money is by a few of the promoters printing fake tickets and selling them again like they did a few years ago. BTW, Eddy and V run print shops, give them the business. If they can't make UMF profitable on one day, why do they think two is better??? Maybe because they don't use their own money to fund it?

BTW, some good news, Rok Bar reopened.

Space had the door guy djing, I guess LP felt bad after those 12 year olds kicked his ass last year. BTW K man, I'm pissed at you, im me for details.

Bling has turned his back on: Glass, Grass, Blue, that Laundry Mat, Space, deep house, trance, techno, dating, females.

Ramon bought a Beemer and no longer listens to techno, he's too busy doing fantasy football.

I hear A3TV has a new reality show called, Survivor Cameo. Viewers get to vote on who gets tossed out of the Cameo first, Emi, LP, Kenny, Cal, Grutman?

BTW Buster, who left the Hummer unlocked? Better check Ebay!!!

The jackasses who made an internet movie, Clubland to promote their clubs, that's how bad it has gotten.

Space is on the chopping block come summer, so the beach's crime rate should top Gary Indiana's soon, congrats Sobe, you worked hard at getting the title. The only person who deserves to be fired more than Sobe's Top Cop is Matt Milen, but luckily for Matt he works for Ford! 24-79! Wow what a record!

Mansion charged 100 bucks to see Morillo and wait it gets better, they text the entire country about it!

Dade went to China to "site see", yea right, he was over there selling shares of Shadow Lounge which some one tried to re open with that name in Sobe and thought it was a great idea!

The good news?

Gary Indiana will once again only be known as the home town of Joe Jackson and his merry band of fuck tarts.

**UPDATED**

SPACE LOST MONEY ON THE SASHA BOOKING

DT ONLY DID 700 PEOPLE AT TWILO

If Sasha can't turn a profit in Miami at Space who the fuck will???

Even more bad news!

M3 TO SKIP MIAMI THIS YEAR

Jan 9, 2007 6:39 PM

M3: Miami Music & Multimedia recently announced that the company will forego producing events in Miami Beach in March 2007.

Now in its fourth year, M3 merges modern music, technology, fashion and art to present a diverse mix of entertainment and products combined with business exchanges. However, the ambitious M3 vision and production proved to be a costly venture for the renegade start-up, according to M3 CEO, Brad LeBeau.

"In order to grow the M3 brand from a three-day annual event into a year-round lifestyle experience, we are entering into a significant investment/production partnership in 2007, the details for which will be announced shortly," LeBeau says. "This is an exciting move for M3 and one that requires ample time to prepare for larger opportunities in Miami and other cities."

For more information about M3, visit www.m3summit.com.

2 More to add:

Crobar NYC is no longer, will be called Studio...

And stolen from the wmc cj forum, Defected canceled their wmc events.

post from their site

http://forum.defected.com/viewtopic.php?t=19827

The point is lost.

Reasons why we ain't going to do a party:

1. There way are too many parties.

2. There are fewer and fewer punters that actually know their shit.

3. It takes 3 hours to get through immigration.

4 It takes 3 hours for a cab to go 4 blocks up Collins Ave. The traffic is appalling

5. The sound systems are appalling and the attitude of the clubs is even worse.

6. The City of Miami does not actually want the event to happen. closing down parties for NOISE, parking your car outside a club, over crowding, people having a good time, some bloke picking their nose in public.

I am sure that it is going to happen, well something will be going on.... but as to if it is has been actually a 'happening' event over the last few yeras is something that has been discussed for a while now.

It used to be about networking, promoting your shit around the Fontainbleau. The moment they moved away from the poolside focal point the event gradually lost more and more focus.

It takes ages to plan an event like this and costs are considerable. If it was your time and money.....would you bother????

[Guest pod]

While I'm not 100% in agreement with your predictions of gloom and doom, a lot of these at least should serve to the club industry as a warning.

Things aren't what they once were. The cult of the DJ is dead and officially over. Except for a few rabid adherents, no one is overly concerned about who is on the decks anymore. If anything, DJs should be booked as an element of an overall party nowadays, not the focus of the party.

Now I know a lot of you subscribe to the cult of the DJ. That's fine. The Bill of Rights guarantees you freedom of religion. However, that form of worship has had it's day.

Clubs will always be here. It's what the clubs do that changes.

[Guest]

if the club scene is so dead... then how come no matter what club i goto on any given night.... the places are fucking packed to the gills? if the scene is so fucking dead, you would think that every club in miami would be empty on any given night.

has it ever occured to you barbarino that people actually have more things to do with their free time then to sit on a fucking message board talking about the nightclub industry?

[Guest pod]

Yeah certain clubs are crowded. Those are ones that will pull through. They're adapting to changing market conditions.

[V. Barbarino]

My fav club year was 1998, now that it is 2007, that's is about 9 years already! Nothing last forever, the club scene is now older than disco. Disco came in 1973 and died in 1979, about 6 years or so, and now house music, modern house that is, has been popular since the early 1990's. Sure it existed before then, but wasn't popular. So do the math, that's about 15+years or twice as long as disco, when is it time to say it's done?

Well I'm saying it, IT'S DONE!

I also forgot to add in, Delux's top 40 night now does better business than it's house Fridays. A sign of the times when even the suburban kids don't want to hear edm?

[Guest pod]

Things do change.

See, a lot of people aren't seeing the forest for the trees. They go to an event. It's packed. That's easy to do, especially with guestlists and proper promotions. There's a trick to it, but on most nights (PvD, etc excepted) you can give the door away to a certain hour, and still come ahead.

That is with your average drinking crowd. Here's the thing, the musically-inclined crowd doesn't spend money at the bar. You can't float a night at a decent venue in Miami with just music heads. Maybe in a hole in the wall where the overhead is low, but not at a upper-mid to top-flight venue.

Now am I suggesting the music crowd take up drinking? I'd like to but I know it isn't gonna happen. What I'm suggesting is that events have to be more "accessible", to the money crowd. Hate on them all you want, but the Average Joes at the bar and the not-so-average Joes in VIP are subsidizing that night.

[Guest LeVeL]

Thats not true...clubs are doing bad right now. On Saturday I went to Mansion and it was empty, there were numerous VIP Tables that were empty, there wasn't even a line of people begging the door men to get in.

I have never seen Mansion that way before, right now its a bad season. Majority of the people out there dont want to waste money on going out right now due to all the money spent over Christmas and NYE. People are taking a break from nightlife.

The only people that you see out are either ClubAddicts, People who just turned 21 or People who are out to celebrate a B-Day or something.

Space was probably packed but you can thank the free admission before 1 am and guestlist to that.

People are being careful with their finances at this moment.

[Guest LeVeL]

Also every local Dj in town should be embaressed about themselves right now because when you have a Doorman Spinning at the most notorious club in Miami, when seasoned Dj's are struggling to get a gig in this town, you have a problem.

[Guest lavosdeldiablo]

My fav club year was 1998, now that it is 2007, that's is about 9 years already! Nothing last forever, the club scene is now older than disco. Disco came in 1973 and died in 1979, about 6 years or so, and now house music, modern house that is, has been popular since the early 1990's. Sure it existed before then, but wasn't popular. So do the math, that's about 15+years or twice as long as disco, when is it time to say it's done?

Well I'm saying it, IT'S DONE!

I also forgot to add in, Delux's top 40 night now does better business than it's house Fridays. A sign of the times when even the suburban kids don't want to hear edm?

people were dancing in 7o's, people were dancing in the 80's , people were dancing in the 90's , people will continue to dance . does music change (evolve)? of course it does ! (THANK GOD)

[Guest Eddy Guerra]

got to admit never seen the miami house scene doing this bad :'(, yeah some parties are busy but the #s are no where near the same. its actually kinda depressing, when celebrities complain that all they want to hear is hip hop. what happend to the good ol days :'(

[Guest pod]

Right at this moment, yeah. Most people just paid their rent/mortgage, paid for their holiday gifts, that sort of thing.

Yeah, I've said this a million times. People accuse me of being a profiteer. I'd love to see it being in the days when even at a celeb-driven event, you could at least count on dance music being played.

The club scene evolves, yes. People that realize that will keep on going. It's those who are stuck in the past and lusting over the times when they could be DJ vultures that are gonna be shit out of luck.

[Guest lavosdeldiablo]

what happend to the good ol days :'(

the super/mega club! how many super clubs were there in your 'good ole days' ???

[Guest pod]

Don't get me started on that. Why is it that everyone who wants to open a venue seemingly wants to aim for the 1,000+ capacity mark? I broke it down in another thread, but throughout the South Florida area, there's only about 5 million people. Out of that 5 million, less than a million have an interest in nightclubs, and less than that go out with any frequency.

[Guest swank]

got to admit never seen the miami house scene doing this bad :'(, yeah some parties are busy but the #s are no where near the same. its actually kinda depressing, when celebrities complain that all they want to hear is hip hop. what happend to the good ol days :'(

the super/mega club! how many super clubs were there in your 'good ole days'

I was never fond of the mega clubs....once in a while is okay but not all of the time. Very impersonal, I mean how could you be personal to 2000 people in and out every night.

I'd like to see a return to the intimate club scene all about the party....stay tuned

[Guest pod]

See, here's the thing. A plethora of little lounges isn't going to bring in the necessary monetary influx to keep the Miami club scene going at the level people want it at.

As far as clubgoing tourists go, they're not gonna travel for the sake of a 100 person capacity venue that they could probably get at home. Thus, the need for a megaclub as the "Great Attractor" to the city. You get people who come here and want to go to Space, then on their off nights, they'll hit the smaller places. Space is only open one day a week, after all. You're here for a week. I'd do Space, then on the off nights hit the little places.

[Guest LaundryBar]

I was never fond of the mega clubs....once in a while is okay but not all of the time. Very impersonal, I mean how could you be personal to 2000 people in and out every night.

I'd like to see a return to the intimate club scene all about the party....stay tuned

palabra.

[Guest myles hie]

Ch-Ch-Ch Changes....

Things have been in the shitter for a few years now. The reason you guys just might be realizing it now is because well, its Miami. Things are a little different here.

There is an age gap for EDM. When the rave thing was squashed so was the future potential consumers for that. Those kids grew up on commercial hip hop/punk rock and varaitions of those 2. There are no avenues for teens to get into EDM. (There are a few actually, but thats up to you to figure out).

[Guest pod]

There is an age gap for EDM. When the rave thing was squashed so was the future potential consumers for that.

Valid point. One other thing that is killing the ability of clubs to do dance-oriented events is the fracturing of the dance scene. Too many people are way too genre-specific in their likes and dislikes, and they prefer to sit on their asses at home rather than go out and enjoy themselves, just because DJ Azamat Bogatov from Kazakhstan isn't booked that evening.

Not to go back on my own rant, but I do remember a few years ago when you'd see a lot of people out, even if the DJ wasn't specifically to their liking. They went out, and made the best of it. Techno people would go out to house events, that sort of thing. At the time, in their mind, it beat staying at home. Nowadays, everyone's so damn disgruntled.

[Guest spinderella7713]

I think our generation* of club heads spent so much time promoting to people their own age and people older......and not enough time making the newbees feel welcomed into club land. Therefore newbies dont have the memories that most of us thrive upon (or knowledge) to go out everyweekend...or at least support EDM. There is a gap in generations. Promotions ultimatly were not directed to the right people a few years back....this is my take on things at least.

[Guest JustDade]

The artists and agents killed the house scene. End of story!

It's simple economics. When the talent charges more, the venue has to charge more. The mega-clubs can pay more because they can hold more people so they get the big names. The mega-clubs compete for the big name so the price goes up. BUT...the price is now so high that with promotion and everything else, they are only breaking even because even Mansion's crowd thinks $100 cover is too much. It's too late for the price to come back down because the talent wants to keep making the big bucks. Now the smaller clubs can only hire the talent with the not-so-big name. This should be OK since there is plenty of great up-and-coming talent out there. BUT....the people, (yes, that's you), are only willing to pay for the big names so the small club is shit-out-of-luck unless they want the free-loaders. So the real music heads, (who really don't support much unless it's free), are on message boards calling the mega-clubs evil names like Wal-Mart. Meanwhile, only a handful of people care because radio and MTV are only cultivating Hip-Hop lovers. Now the clubs realize that it's cheaper and easier to fill their clubs with Hip-Hoppers and it's Bye-Bye dance.

[Guest ramon]

I think our generation* of club heads spent so much time promoting to people their own age and people older......and not enough time making the newbees feel welcomed into club land. Therefore newbies dont have the memories that most of us thrive upon (or knowledge) to go out everyweekend...or at least support EDM. There is a gap in generations. Promotions ultimatly were not directed to the right people a few years back....this is my take on things at least.

there are not many options other than festivals and a few other events for people under 21 to get into the music. sure they can download dj sets and what not, but it's not the same. instead this crowd is listening to indie rock/electronic and swearing its not dance music. you have kids listening to daft punk who swear its not house music. regardless of the matter you won't have much of a scene here unless people realize that we need to brng in the next generation of producers / dj's and give them a place to flourish.

ps: barbarino, i still listen to techno , but there's more important things to worry about than not seeing my favorite dj's in town. however wmc is 3 months away and for one week in march miami is transformed into a magical musical mecca.

[Guest bootstah]

That was a good call Barbarino, and I have to agree with you on some things........SOME.

All people do is complain about how bad the scene in Miami is, how the music sucks and there's nothing to do. But on any given weekend you have talent right here in South Florida. Of course you're going to find the usual suspects at parties like Local Celebrity and Space but typically that's the same crowd. Where did all of the music heads go? Oh right most of them are at home complaining how shitty the nightlife is in Miami. If it's so bad then do something about it. We had Loco Dice here a week ago and all people could do is complain about how shitty the venue was and the sound was terrible, nobody failed to realize that freakin Loco Dice was here!

On another note, we had an awesome time on Friday night in Palm Beach. hehehehe

[Guest coach]

I think you need to change the title of this thread to the "HOUSE" scene is dead. I mean, calling the club scene dead is just senseless. People been going out and drinking and dancing since the invention of the drum and alcohol and they will continue to do so.

[Guest pod]

And even worse, when a dance artist or DJ does something like go on Y100 or on the satellites, he or she automatically branded a sell-out. Richie Hawtin could get a prime-time dance music TV show on NBC and I can bet some of his fans would label him as a sell out.

And then on the same tack, "supporters" of dance music don't go out to see DJs because "they're too commercial" or "Oh I heard him in Ibiza and he gets way more daring there...". They'd rather stay at home, cruise the P2P networks or The Pirate Bay, and listen to sets coming out of their $20 Wal-Mart computer speakers. "I support" they say, then 20 minutes later they're IMing their friend, whom OG gave some tracks in good faith to play out, for the latest tracks from Europe.

And Natalie, most people don't give a flying fuck if Loco Dice was there or not. To your average, paying clubgoer here in Miami, Loco Dice is Oscar G is Cedric Gervais is Edgar V. People going out in this town don't care, and most importantly, don't want to care too much about which DJ is on the decks.

I was having a discussion with Dade about this once, he bought down a plethora of DJs, some of whom now command mid-five-figure salaries, and some whom have dropped off the radar entirely. Now was everyone a trainspotter back then? Not bloody likely, to quote the English. What it was was that through the residents, the quality of the venue, and the promotions staff, he had built a trust with his crowd. They wouldn't swarm for the names, it was more of a "Well, it could be anyone on the decks, but we know Shadow Lounge is going to provide an entertaining evening for us..."

That's always been the key in this city, is to provide a certain night for a crowd, and build a trust. And most importantly, don't abuse that trust. Space "works" because people know they can hear quality, accessible dance music, in a great venue with an overall decent crowd. They know they'll go out and have a good time regardless of whether Deep Dish, OG, PvD, or Cedric is playing. They know what to expect, in other words. Throw in the "strange" sounds of Loco Dice, and yeah, they're gonna be pissed. Loco as an example. I don't follow him so I don't know what he plays really.

Your average clubgoer pays good money to go out. Now I know you are all immortals and that concept is kinda hard to grasp, but it does happen. Not everyone's as important as you and is a scenester. But anyway, for that money, they want to know ahead of time that they are going to have a good night out. They want no unpleasant surprises. Surprises are nice, but they need to go in the right direction.

[Guest vaughan]

The artists and agents killed the house scene. End of story!

It's simple economics. When the talent charges more, the venue has to charge more. The mega-clubs can pay more because they can hold more people so they get the big names. The mega-clubs compete for the big name so the price goes up. BUT...the price is now so high that with promotion and everything else, they are only breaking even because even Mansion's crowd thinks $100 cover is too much. It's too late for the price to come back down because the talent wants to keep making the big bucks. Now the smaller clubs can only hire the talent with the not-so-big name. This should be OK since there is plenty of great up-and-coming talent out there. BUT....the people, (yes, that's you), are only willing to pay for the big names so the small club is shit-out-of-luck unless they want the free-loaders. So the real music heads, (who really don't support much unless it's free), are on message boards calling the mega-clubs evil names like Wal-Mart. Meanwhile, only a handful of people care because radio and MTV are only cultivating Hip-Hop lovers. Now the clubs realize that it's cheaper and easier to fill their clubs with Hip-Hoppers and it's Bye-Bye dance.

Well said... and DEAD on... If this came out of Barbarino's mouth, Icon would be on this post tossing the f* word all over the place. But well said Dade!

Open your eyes peeps... Even Saleen is 90% correct about his predictions. Don't hate on him for telling (90%) the truth. And Jimmy T's post actually sums it up... people will still be dancing, and there will still be clubs... we'll just all be scuffling to the beat of a different drum.