**UPDATED 3** Recent examples of a collapsing club scene:

[Guest swank]

just wanted to be the 100th post on this thread ;D

[Guest spinderella7713]

Tell all your snooty friends that. See what they say.

???

[ryan2772]

i love lamp

[Guest musicalmissionary]

The answer my friends is OPEN FORMAT!!!!!

Variety is the spice of life... and the path to progress. Open format simply means FUCK GENRES... just play good fuckin booty-shakin music. You can still drop house/techno/electronic beats along with funk/booty/hip-hop... if you know what you're doing. The best DJ's on the planet already mix multiple genres and the diversity in there sets will only continue to expand as clubgoers' Attention Deficit Disorder gets worse (or perhaps better depending on how you look at it).

And yes this message was signed, sealed, and delivered by a card-carrying member of the Music Snob Association.

i like the whole separate rooms idea. up north we do it alot. one room hip hop, one room house, one room rock.....you cant go wrong!!!! unless your metropolis :-X

Sure... if you happen to have a 3-room venue... which constitutes about 10% of the venues I know of. Otherwise... if a dj wants to evolve with the times I think they need to not be so afraid of "going there" and incorporating familiar songs or samples into their mixes... even from totally different genres. If they're good... they can figure out how to do it. The only thing that sounds better to me than a dope techno track these days... is a dope techno track that comes out of nowhere in a set of some other style music and yet it sounded like it fit (i.e diplo's fabric set of old-school electro, bass, hip-hop, and even techno).

99% of open-format out there nowadays is 100% familiar tracks. That's not what I am a proponent of. But I am a proponent of using the open-format concept to "push the envelope" as some of the music heads (including me) wish more dj's/promoters would do.

Give them some classics, give them some hip-hop, then give them some techno... rinse... repeat.

It takes time and effort to find those old-school gems that blend perfectly with new-school bombs... but it IS the future of dj-ing in my opinion... or at least I hope it is.

But in the real world it goes like this:

Wow...I have three rooms so I can put Hip-Hop in one and house in one and open format in one. I will rule the club world!

Hmmmm...that hip hop room is packed and the OF room is doing OK but the house room needs help. Maybe I should bring in some promoters.

HHHmmmmmm...The promoters brought in some people but I have to pay them so much the House room is losing even more $$.

Hey....I have an idea....If I get rid of the house room I can have two rooms of Hip-Hop. That seems to make sense since my HH room is always packed.

So yeah... there's always going to be the business model of catering to a pre-existing market and fighting for market share. There will also be the more lucrative yet elusive business model of creating an entirely new market.

I believe there is a market out there waiting to be created and tapped that consists of combining old and new sounds in a way that everyone (everyone = enough people to fill a large club on a consistent basis) can enjoy and feel like they are being entertained and yet feel like they are hearing something new yet familiar... it's possible. I've heard it.

Case in point... take someone like Jazzy Jeff or Craze and inject 20-30% more electro/techno/house and you can kinda see where I'm going. It's just like cracking open a window to a room full of stale air. And no... for the love of God I am not calling either of those artists stale. I used them as an example of proper mixed format DJ's that could pull off what I'm talking about. The "room full of stale air" represents the current club scene in general.

[Guest Philip]

yawn

[Guest spinderella7713]

ALSO....Ramon said something earlier about pushing the envelope....and that is exactly what needs to be done. Difference is what creates change. If you want a change you need to push it. Doing the same thing everyone else is doing is just going to keep us going on the same path we already are, and that is DOWN.

I dont like the fact that everyone has 321321324 promoters now, and that you actually wait in line to get into a club. Its boring. I miss the days of a couple of good ass promoters with an interesting idea.....and people getting picked to go inside damn it.

This goes back to an old thread of mine. Miami's club industry's imaginations have gone corporate.

[Guest pod]

Spin, you're in the point in your life where you probably do not have a lot of expenses to worry about. Rent, gas, food, maybe some student loan payments...

Most club industry types have mortgages, car payments, investments, and other bills on top of what I just mentioned. Nevermind paying off the venue itself. Going corporate is a matter of survival. Hell, "going corporate" lets me shoot and beat down your asses on this forum full time. I'm not gonna push paper for a bank.

Philip, you have the luxury of going "yawn" because you're on the consumer end. Frankly this is the most interesting conversation I've seen on this board in a few weeks. Bumping event postings (half of which I should be charging your asses for...you guys know who you are) gets really old after awhile. One of the things that a lot of people here and there love about this forum is shit like this. You should see the lurker contingent today, you'd shit yourself if you knew who was watching.

[Guest swank]

BumP 8)

[Guest Hardline]

Maybe you all want to go and see Sterling Moss from U.K on January 27 @ the penthouse.....

Someone and something new....why dont give it a try..

Im sure none of you have ever seen him... and would be a good first experience on someting different that the world outside Miami has to offer....

Once again, if we are trying to save EDM why dont give it a try to something new...

YES.....Techno, were trying something "new" to break the division that genres had made on people..

YES....SOBEBEATS once again>> 1 yr anniversary ;D

Stop saying and start doing.......support!!!

STERLING MOSS

(Racetrax/Apex/Hard as Funk, London UK)

http://www.cooljunkie.com/forums/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=35603

www.sobebeats.com

[Guest spinderella7713]

Spin, you're in the point in your life where you probably do not have a lot of expenses to worry about. Rent, gas, food, maybe some student loan payments...

Most club industry types have mortgages, car payments, investments, and other bills on top of what I just mentioned. Nevermind paying off the venue itself. Going corporate is a matter of survival. Hell, "going corporate" lets me shoot and beat down your asses on this forum full time. I'm not gonna push paper for a bank.

Philip, you have the luxury of going "yawn" because you're on the consumer end. Frankly this is the most interesting conversation I've seen on this board in a few weeks. Bumping event postings (half of which I should be charging your asses for...you guys know who you are) gets really old after awhile. One of the things that a lot of people here and there love about this forum is shit like this. You should see the lurker contingent today, you'd shit yourself if you knew who was watching.

I understand that the corporate part is the most important....THE FUNDING......but Miami clubs/parties used to be able to keep an imaginative party and it was still corporatly funded. Level and Liquid are wonderful examples, and they were pretty long lived. Crobar was great until the last couple of years. The sparkle dwindled, and when you are just out for the money (and I realize that is the most important part) your party will fail...it becomes obvious.

[Guest Philip]

Philip, you have the luxury of going "yawn" because you're on the consumer end. Frankly this is the most interesting conversation I've seen on this board in a few weeks.

maybe, but its the same conversation that pops up every couple months. i can predict what everyone is gonna say by now.

not that it isn't a good discussion to have. it is.

[Guest lyrik]

Holy shit!

You guys sure do "talk" a good party.

[Guest pod]

Well, hopefully some of our more idealistic (read: in denial) friends will see what they have to do to ensure the survival of dance music oriented events at places beyond holes in the wall.

[Guest lyrik]

Well, hopefully some of our more idealistic (read: in denial) friends will see what they have to do to ensure the survival of dance music oriented events at places beyond holes in the wall.

Thats the irony of it all...hole in the wall places is where it originated and where it will end up...and I'm more than content with that...I'll wait it out.

[V. Barbarino]

For the record I've never paid a cover charge in my Miami career and I don't support the scene, it's a business, I don't support the Walmart scene or the Boca Mall scene, I do however try and get free cheap shit from the Walmart and Boca Mall scene..

Clubs are a business, I have no loyalty to them or requirement to support them even though I may like the music.

I work in the white collar world, I make a lot of money, I personally think the club employees are losers who are holding on because one day their ship might come in, too bad they don't realize before their ship comes in, Grutman or LP are already flying their flag on the bow..

know your role, get a real job, maybe at the Boca Mall or Walmart, they pay better than promoting some millionaires club.

The Club Legend.

[Guest pod]

Well yeah, but geez, for it to keep on going in cycles like this is ridiculous. I mean, why relegate yourself to that? Hip-hop started in alleyways and crackhouse bathrooms, and now it's a multi-billion dollar industry. Why does dance music have to go "back to basics"?

I'm not talking in terms of conspicuous consumption either, what I'm really referring to is that it turns into something a bit more viable than it is now. It sucks when your favorite producers and such have to schlep houses on the side just to make ends meet.

[Guest Major]

Well, hopefully some of our more idealistic (read: in denial) friends will see what they have to do to ensure the survival of dance music oriented events at places beyond holes in the wall.

Thats the irony of it all...hole in the wall places is where it originated and where it will end up...and I'm more than content with that...I'll wait it out.

It's already heading that way, and that's where it belongs.

[Guest pod]

By who's yardstick? Dance music is supposed to be sequestered somehow? Says who?

Major, you're a good kid, but you're not seeing this beyond your own self-interest. You throw and play parties at small venues and hotels, so to you that's fine. And there's nothing wrong with those type of events.

But in order for even those events to succeed and not come and go with the regularity of a woman's menstrual cycle, a "major" (haha) side is needed. Look to hip-hop. For every Diddy, there's a Roots or a Mayday who can 'keep it real' and conduct their art form, because the overall scene is healthy. For every Space or Mansion, there's innumerable little parties that can keep going, because there's people who Space and so forth on the weekends, and maybe want a dance-oriented party during the week to hit up. No offense, but if my only option was a hole in the wall, I'd easily grow bored of it. What I'm saying is that for a viable "small and intimate" scene to survive, there needs to be an out and out commercial component.

Not everyone is a music expert, DJ, or what-have-you. Not everyone wants to be or should be forced into being, either.

[Guest Philip]

i dunno... some might argue electronic music is underground by nature

[Guest pod]

That's what they said about hip-hop nearly 30 years ago. "What, these guys are rhyming over played back drumbeats?"

Less than a decade down the line, it became a viable and commercially successful form of music. Nowadays, entire labels and corporations are founded to produce and promote this form of music.

Be underground all you want, but there needs to be a commercial aspect to subsidize your undergrounded-ness.

What I see a lot of going on here is no more than elementary school clubhouse mentality. You might say you're trying to get away from it, but realistically keeping things "underground" is just throwing up a different sort of velvet rope in front of the club.

[Guest Gladius]

if the club scene is so dead... then how come no matter what club i goto on any given night.... the places are fucking packed to the gills? if the scene is so fucking dead, you would think that every club in miami would be empty on any given night.

has it ever occured to you barbarino that people actually have more things to do with their free time then to sit on a fucking message board talking about the nightclub industry?

on a lighter note i agree with the fact that alot of the hardcore clubbing guidos we see in NY don't know what a computer is yet, let alone a message board

[Guest Major]

Like I said earlier, I'm not really complaining. The scene internationally is quite healthy, and there's different levels of underground popping up all-over. And I believe it's the underground feeding the mainstream and not the other way round.

[Guest pod]

Well if you think about it, it is a two way street. The art and the talent go down to up, and the financials and crowds come from up to down.

[Guest Major]

Yes, and the scene will always continue to evolve.

[Guest pod]

Optimism is nice, but I don't see much of an evolution right now. There's too much intra-scene fighting, and it's easy for a clubowner to say fuck it and put in a hip-hop night.