gravity Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I am coming to your next family reunion... ------------------"The world is a better place because of those who refuse to believe they can't fly." [This message has been edited by gravity (edited 01-16-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratnik Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I think your born that way, but these days everyone is curious. My older sister dated a guy for twelve years..only to break it off and start dating a woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjsc Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by bratnik:I think your born that way, but these days everyone is curious. My older sister dated a guy for twelve years..only to break it off and start dating a woman. You took the words right out of my closet jsc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichi_gami Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 i don't know about heredity, or environment, or what. i know that if i had a choice, i wouldn't choose this. so no, it's not a choice, but i don't know what it IS per se.------------------"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking together in the same direction." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratnik Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by ichi_gami:i don't know about heredity, or environment, or what. i know that if i had a choice, i wouldn't choose this. so no, it's not a choice, but i don't know what it IS per se.Another not so bright person. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS PER SE?? Its another persons way of life. And what makes this way of life so horrible that YOU WOULDNT CHOOSE IT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjsc Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by ichi_gami:i don't know about heredity, or environment, or what. i know that if i had a choice, i wouldn't choose this. I wouldn't change a thing about who i am... oh wait..never mind..i wanna be you ..you are so cool, in fact i'm your number one fan.....you made me feel all ooogie.jsc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichi_gami Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by bratnik: Another not so bright person. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS PER SE?? Its another persons way of life. And what makes this way of life so horrible that YOU WOULDNT CHOOSE IT?Listen up, Bratnik. I might not be a raving genius, but I can speak from my own experience. As a gay man, I face certain challenges that don't exist for most heterosexuals. I know it's not a choice for me, I can't just 'choose' to be attracted to women, and I didn't 'choose' to be attracted to men. I am not a scientist working on cracking the genetic code, so I can't say it is preprogrammed. I can't say it is hereditary, as I don't know anyone else in my family who is gay. So without any supporting evidence for my hypothesis, I can not say with any certainty what the cause and effect are. Therefore, it is pure speculation. Check yourself before you jump down someone's throat on things like this.And, what makes it so horrible? Family who shut you completely out because of who you are with, instead of accepting who you are. Businesspeople who refuse to do deals when they know you are gay. Being denied certain rights and privileges taken for granted by straight people, such as the right to marriage and the privilege of treatment as equals with regards to health coverage, social security, and even bank loans.It's not just "someone else's way of life" to me, it is MY way of life.------------------"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking together in the same direction." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by bratnik: Another not so bright person. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS PER SE?? Its another persons way of life. And what makes this way of life so horrible that YOU WOULDNT CHOOSE IT? Ummm...what exactly was wrong with that post?? You're the one who asked if we thought it was genetic, environmental, etc! So, he just said he doesn't know, BUT if he had to choose between being BI or st8, or homosexual, then he wouldn't choose "it". now we don't know what it is, but its his choice. This is hilarious...you ask for an opinion, and when that opinion is given you bash that person! Now here's my opinion (and I cringe in anticipation of the bashing)....I think its more environmental than anything...I have a feeling that your sister and youa re bi curious cuz your other other sister is. You love your sister - thus you subconciously relate yourself to her, even when it comes to sexual preferance.I am not bi-curious...and I have no wish to be. This does not mean I won't respect other's choices!My 2 cents------------------"I would believe only in a god who could dance."Nietzche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickijay Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by bratnik: Another not so bright person. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS PER SE?? Its another persons way of life. And what makes this way of life so horrible that YOU WOULDNT CHOOSE IT? um, obviously you don't know ichi!! don't be so quick to jump down someone's throat, you need to re-read what he wrote!! um, hello??------------------ Boink like a snow bunny!!!uknj@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjsc Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 why don't u chill the fuck out..yo i'm just as light in the lofers as you are so i can say it.....enough w/ the self pity why can't you be proud of who you are..... doesn't help homosexuals elsewhere when people are all "oh woe is me i'm queer"jsc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-maximus- Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by ichi_gami: Listen up, Bratnik. I might not be a raving genius, but I can speak from my own experience. As a gay man, I face certain challenges that don't exist for most heterosexuals. I know it's not a choice for me, I can't just 'choose' to be attracted to women, and I didn't 'choose' to be attracted to men. I am not a scientist working on cracking the genetic code, so I can't say it is preprogrammed. I can't say it is hereditary, as I don't know anyone else in my family who is gay. So without any supporting evidence for my hypothesis, I can not say with any certainty what the cause and effect are. Therefore, it is pure speculation. Check yourself before you jump down someone's throat on things like this.And, what makes it so horrible? Family who shut you completely out because of who you are with, instead of accepting who you are. Businesspeople who refuse to do deals when they know you are gay. Being denied certain rights and privileges taken for granted by straight people, such as the right to marriage and the privilege of treatment as equals with regards to health coverage, social security, and even bank loans.It's not just "someone else's way of life" to me, it is MY way of life.I think Bratnik's automatic assumption was that you were straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratnik Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Well first of all my opinion is I believe you are born this way. It sounds like self pity to me, you should be proud of who and what you are and fuck society. As for family I know first hand what that is like since my own doesnt accept my sister. You should never want to choose to be something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratnik Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by raver_mania: Ummm...what exactly was wrong with that post?? You're the one who asked if we thought it was genetic, environmental, etc! So, he just said he doesn't know, BUT if he had to choose between being BI or st8, or homosexual, then he wouldn't choose "it". now we don't know what it is, but its his choice. This is hilarious...you ask for an opinion, and when that opinion is given you bash that person! Now here's my opinion (and I cringe in anticipation of the bashing)....I think its more environmental than anything...I have a feeling that your sister and youa re bi curious cuz your other other sister is. You love your sister - thus you subconciously relate yourself to her, even when it comes to sexual preferance.I am not bi-curious...and I have no wish to be. This does not mean I won't respect other's choices!My 2 centsAND BY THE WAY.... THIS WASNT MY QUESTION AND IM NOT BASHING ANYONE!! HAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratnik Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Maximus you are correct!! And to everyone else.. sorry for the DRAMA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichi_gami Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 saint, there's no woe is me, i'm queer at all. i am perfectly accepting of who i am. the only point i make is if it were a choice, it wouldn't be the choice I'd have made. I'm not going to be shouting it from the rooftops how wonderful it is to be gay, but I'm also not going to be belittled by activists on either side of the fence for how I approach my life. So if you want to sort this out, let's do it via PMs, not out on the board.Back to the thread at hand, there was a decently serious question asked, I replied with a decently serious perspective. you can tell me everything is perfect in your world, and I can tell you I have a father who talks of gay bashing (physically beating the hell out of queers) as "GREAT SPORT." perhaps you have an easier time of things, I don't. This is not self-pity, this is my experience. please don't confuse the issue here.------------------"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking together in the same direction." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratnik Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Definitely didnt want to cause drama.. I assumed you were straight and I was questioning just what was so wrong about being gay. This wasnt even my question.. sorry for the misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessalove Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Who the hell cares whether it happens to be a choice or something that comes from birth or environmental?? The point is whatever it is, it's fine. I think we've established that at least. I think even for people who experiment with the same sex as well as the opposite sex or just one or the other, they're not really sure. Whatever way it happens, it's all good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautious1 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 WOW!!! I can tell by your responses that this is a touchy subject.... sorry...I just wanted your opinions on how this comes to be....how do we explain our sexuality....hetero or homo....I guess there's is no solid evidence whether it's nature vs. nurture, so forget it!------------------ Round and Round we go...Where we stop Nobody Knows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allishara Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by gravity:I am coming to your next family reunion... hahahhahahahahahhahahahahaha.......goooood 1------------------you know you love me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramadas Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Sorry beatious1...for a while there I thought bratnik had posted the initial question...my other response was aimed at her, not you. ------------------"I would believe only in a god who could dance."Nietzche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmikedr Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 some interesting things to ponder:Society accepts gay women over men.In the animal kingdom there IS some homosexuality.and as for beautious' family: perhaps the behaviour of your sisters has led to the initial acceptance of their choices and then having that acceptance it led you to be curious without reprecusions, thus ultimatley experimenting. ------------------aim: djmikedrDJmikeDR@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycetouch Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 The ultimate questions is whether sexual attraction is biological or environmental. Are we born with genetics that make us attracted to a male/female or is society responsible for conditioning our desires?I believe both play a part in deciding who we choose to sleep with, and trying to uncover which is the real reason is fruitless, especially on this board!I've seen straight guys experiment with bisexuality, and I've seen gay men sleeping with girls. So perhaps sexual attraction is a deep psychologial process that is within all of us and there's no formula for making a decision on who is somebody going to fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shugabooga Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Originally posted by bratnik: Another not so bright person. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS PER SE?? Its another persons way of life. And what makes this way of life so horrible that YOU WOULDNT CHOOSE IT? i'll tell you why i wouldn't choose it. i have a very close friend who is a lesbian. she's never been with a man at all. i'll tell you what is "horrible" about being a lesbian or gay in our society - she is always afraid her secret will get out at work and she will lose her job...the dating pool for lesbians is far smaller than it is for heterosexuals (she doesn't live in NYC)so she always has a hard time finding other women to date, she is often alone and lonely. her family isn't comfortable with her sexuality, especially her father, and her mother, who accepted her for who she is, has passed away. she wants children badly, but has been unsuccessful in adopting because she is single.so for some lesbians, it's a lonely, unfilling lifestyle. she feels she was born this way and doesn't have a choice. she doesn't want to be with a man, she is only attracted to women. so in that regard, it is "horrible" for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodust Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I think there is genetic and environmental issues playing here.The baby boy who refuses to wear his boy cloths since he was 2 and plays with dolls instead of He-man figures is gay genetically...The shit that pisses me off are the imposters!!Yes, you all know what I'm talking about, those people who experiment and call themselves bi, just because society has made them curious. I know girls that I grew up with, that magically turned into lesbians later on....no.... I don't think so. Just because it's the 90's and now the 00's and being different is the most in thing to be, so people become lesbo's and gay's and bi almost as a rebellious generation will. DO you know that the amount of gay's and lesbians have increased 60% since 1984? Coincidence, I don't think so. People just want to be cool and hip and different, well to those people who think they are bi and want to try some shit, hear me this: How would you feel if you thought you didn't belong in your skin? or that the thought of the opposite sex intimately would make you puke? If these are questions you haven't pondered at one time or another than yes you too are an imposter....a subject of society.Sorry to make this so personal, but for certain reasons it is!!! ------------------A bag of KB's, $60 A glass bowl, $85 A lighter, $ 1 GETTING HIGH, PRICELESS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdick Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Exodust,I am sorry that you feel so badly about this. And certainly there are posers.However, no one is quite sure about what is genetic and what is environmental - only that both are at play. Nevertheless, human sexuality is infinitely complex. There is certainly a distinction to be made between someone who is Bi on just a sexual plane and someone who can activley pursue romantic relationships with both people - they are rare.Nevertheless, anyone who says they are bi or gay and follows through with it just to be cool is stupid. Then they are having sex for some other reason than pleasure. But there are many people who simply are curious...what is wrong with that. In my books if you have sex with anyone and it is honest and mutually pleasurable who gives a shit what sex they are and what label you put on it. And what is a girl who, say, can only fall in love with men but likes to eat a little pussy from time to time supposed to call herself? Provide a better name and maybe it will cach on As well, I might suggest that genetically and environmentally women area naturally a bit more open to same-sex pleasure. Why? I don't know? It just seems to be that way. And for good or for bad the fact that the social pressures and taboos that forced women to never explore those inclinations are being lifted is what accounts for thre being a lot more women who want to have a little girl-on-girl action fom time to time. I for one am a big fan heheSo yeah, if some sorority queen, essentially straight, girl decides that she occassionally likes to munch and then proceeds to proclaim solidaity with all the oppressed lesbians of the world she is posing. But if she simply calls herself bi because there is no better term for her then she is not posing.MrDick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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