wait, so why are the palestinians mad at us?

[echostar]

i may be stupid, but whats the motivation for this?

[echostar]

anyone?

[jprutig]

because of our support of israel

israel and palestine have been battling for years over territory in the middle east

[echostar]

ahh....its starting to make sense now

[DJGaryMatthews]

Originally posted by peeps

because of our support of israel

israel and palestine have been battling for years over territory in the middle east

exactly, it's all because we just supported isreal, so palistineans hate americans. alot of other countries, especially in the middle east, hate the US. we are the most powerful country in the world, and probably the luckiest people in the world, and other smaller and poorer countries despise us

[latroya]

I'm no expert on this, so maybe I got something wrong, but I think it's about these issues:

1) The extreme in the Arab world is against the process of globalization, which in their eyes is led by the US, because it endangers the Arab consolidation.

2) You have to understand that the arabs see themselves as one nation, so if the US is fighting in Iraq, they don't see it just as a war/embargo on Iraq, but as something against the whole arab nation

3) Last but not least, US is conceived of as Israel's friend and ally....

btw - it's not necessarily palestinians..it could also be Lybians/Iraqu/Iran and so on.... Plenty of extreme militants out there.

Again, sympathize with you guys,

love

S.

[nightgroover]

I think it is also because of lack of support for the palastinians, they feel left alone in their misery. They have been calling for international forces quite a while. But as they are of no economic importance they think no one cares about them.

[heretic909]

Basically, because the US supports Israel. A 22 year-old Palenstinian girl who was among the people celebrating the attack said she "hopes Tel-Aviv is the next to get hit".

But there are reports of the US and Iran working together to run Bin Laden out of his safe-house in Afghanastan, and also having Russia supply weapons to the Afghani rebels to overthrow the Taliban since the Taliban is in control of 95% of Afghanastan and are the ones protecting Bin Laden.

http://ananova.com has a lot of info on it and it isn't being slowed down from traffic as much as the American news sites.

[silente]

Eep...this is a complicated issue that covers a lot of ground, culturally, economically, and politically. It has its basic roots in the aftermath of WWII. When the state of Israel was created land was taken from the Palestinians and given to the Jews/new Israelis. And, of course, that land had been disputed since Biblical times - Jews and Arabs have been fighting over it for literally 4,000 years, as it contains holy sites for both Judaism and Islam. The US has always backed Israel (despite some really heinous Israeli actions against Palestinian civilians), while Arab nations have generally backed the Palestinians. Believe me, they're far from being politically alone in the mideast. Violence has been escalating there recently as both Palestinians and Israelis have stepped up attacks against the other side. The US has maintained a pro-Israeli stance, generating a significant amount of anti-American sentiment among the Palestinians and their Arab supporters. It's really important to remember, though, that the Palestinian government has STRONGLY denounced the bombings - whoever was responsible was NOT supported by the Palestinian leadership. It's also important to remember that we have NO evidence WHATSOEVER to indicate who is at fault - I think it's truly unwise to jump to conclusions in a crime as spectacularly evil as this one. Keep in mind we ARE a democracy - innocent until proven guilty, no matter how horrible the crime. Keep an open mind and wait for evidence before laying blame at the feet of anyone.

[bigpoppanils]

we must also keep in mind that the taliban have also condemened the bombing

also at the time of the second crash, a US spy plane was shot down in iraq

[godslze]

Oh! Oh! This is what I study, so hopefully I can give a decent answer for this.

Before World War I, the area now known as Israel was part of the Ottoman Empire. In fact, the Ottomans controlled nearly all of the Middle East. During WWI, the OE allied itself with the Central Powers (Germany and Austria), but it really posed very little threat militarily. The British government signed several agreements during the war that divided up the colonial possessions of the OE and the other empires. The most important one was with the French, the other European arm of the Triple Entante. In this agreement, the British and French had divided the Middle East into color zones. They could not come to agreement over who would control Palestine, deemed it the Brown Zone, and said that they would decide its fate after the war.

Meanwhile, at this point in history, the Jews played a large role in German life. They were the bankers, the merchants, the ones with the dough. There was a movement known as Zionism that desired a homeland for the Jewish people. To try and help win support of the German Jews away from the Kaiser (German Emperor), Britain issued the Balfour Declaration. This statement professed that the British would help setup a homeland for the lost Jewish people (although it was incredibly vague and could be interpreted in every which way). At the same time, the British struck a deal with an Arabic king that said if he raised an Arab army to fight the Ottomans, he would receive Palestine and other lands in return.

So, the war ends and the British keep Palestine since their army controlled nearly all of the Middle East. Now, both the Arabs and Jews were pissed because they were both promised this area. Britain basically says f-you to the Arabs and lets the Jews start to migrate to Palestine. For a while things were going well and the Jewish settlers were getting along fine with the native Palestinians. Jewish settlers were slowly entering the area, which was mostly desert.

As Hitler rose to power and anti-Semitism was increasing greatly in Europe, more and more immigrants fled to Palestine. The Arabs feared this influx of Jews and started violence. To quell the Arab anger, the British placed limits upon Jewish immigration to the area. A group called the Peel Commission released a report that found the British agreements to be irreconcilable, and advised to divide Palestine into three areas, British, Palestinian, and Jewish.

The division did not go through because of the start of WWII. At the end of the war, Britain was in too bad shape to govern the area. It gave up its mandate and allowed the United Nations to handle the situation (Arab and Israeli conflict was escalating). The UN declared that there would be three divisions, a Palestinian one, a Jewish one, and a special zone for Jerusalem. The Jews accepted the plan; the Arabs rejected it. Once the British had left in 1948, war was declared and by the time the dust settled Israel had increased its size by one half, Palestine ceased to be, and neighboring Arab countries had snatched up the rest.

And so our troubles began. Friggin' British.

[twinange1]

to sum it up....

basically there pissed cause they wanted land... and they were going to kill n e one to get it.. and they started to.. then we stepped in... kinda like a parent... where we didnt have the right to... they are now pissed... cause they feel that were keeping the land that is theres away from them... so now they are fighting back... and now were fucked.

[loupro]

PISS ON THE PALESTINIANS, AND FLUSH THEM DOWN THE TOILET. F*** THE INNOCENT.

[jonnyb]

clever fuckin' thinking you little terrorist you!

very smart loupro

[godslze]

Here's my analogy to the whole Israel/Palestine dispute... imagine the UN were to take New Jersey and say, "Sorry United States, this land belongs to the Leni Lenape Indians again. You have to divide New Jersey into two and share it." After all, this land was the Native Americans land not 400 years ago. Would the people of New Jersey be pissed? Hell yes. Now, say the people of New Jersey refuse to recognize this and claim that New Jersey's theirs. While protesting this division, the Leni Lenape suddenly seize the majority of New Jersey while New York and Pennsylvania take the remainder.

This is basically what happened to the Palestinians. Palestine was their homeland for 2000+ years, figure since the time of the Romans. The West decided that the Jews had the right to the land since they owned it several millenia previous and it was their religious homeland (although it was also the birthplace of Christianity and Islam). And as for why I used the analogy of New Jersey it's because Israel is no larger than New Jersey.

[jonnyb]

excellent metaphor kido!

[fuclubkidd]

this is insane...i just heard on the news that war like fighting has broken out in afshnistan....could this b the 3rd world war.....and to top it all off one of my friends is leavin for the marines!.....man what the hell is goin to happen next?

[massad]

Originally posted by godslze

Here's my analogy to the whole Israel/Palestine dispute... imagine the UN were to take New Jersey and say, "Sorry United States, this land belongs to the Leni Lenape Indians again. You have to divide New Jersey into two and share it." After all, this land was the Native Americans land not 400 years ago. Would the people of New Jersey be pissed? Hell yes. Now, say the people of New Jersey refuse to recognize this and claim that New Jersey's theirs. While protesting this division, the Leni Lenape suddenly seize the majority of New Jersey while New York and Pennsylvania take the remainder.

This is basically what happened to the Palestinians. Palestine was their homeland for 2000+ years, figure since the time of the Romans. The West decided that the Jews had the right to the land since they owned it several millenia previous and it was their religious homeland (although it was also the birthplace of Christianity and Islam). And as for why I used the analogy of New Jersey it's because Israel is no larger than New Jersey.

u gotta catch up on your history buddy. First of all, jews have lived there as long as the palestinians, actually even longer(Ever heard of the ancient kingdom of israel?) Because they were persecuted, a lot of them moved out from the middle east to other countries so eventually there ended up being more arabs. And nobody decided that it was the jew's right to the land. They tried to split it up fairly by giving 1/2 to jews, 1/2 to arabs (who suddenly started calling themselves palestianians at this time). But the arabs were too greedy, and wanted all of the land and as a result they got shit and live in poverty and u know who is to blame for all this??? Not USA, NOT BRITAIN, NOT FRANCE, NOT ISRAEL, but their own fucking leaders who were too stupid to realize that 1/2 of land (which isnt theirs anyway) is better than nothing!!!

Maybe if they knew something besides blowing shit up and reading the koran there would be no problems today

[jester22]

What does he want? SPEAKING OF BIN LADEN!

That is Bin Laden's general philosophy. What is his particular grievance against the United States? According to CNN's Peter Bergen, author of a forthcoming book on Bin Laden, Holy War, Inc., Bin Laden is most enraged by the American military presence in Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden was incensed when the Saudis invited U.S. troops to their defense after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Bin Laden—like many Muslims—considers the continued presence of these armed infidels in Saudi Arabia the greatest possible desecration of the holy land. That is why he sponsored bombings of the American military facilities in Saudi Arabia, why he has tried to destabilize the Saudi government, and why the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed on Aug. 7, 1998—eight years to the day after the first American troops were dispatched to Saudi Arabia.

Bin Laden is also furious about American support for Israel. He detests Jews and views the United States as the Jewish lackey. ("[Jews] believe that all humans are created for their use, and they found that the Americans are the best-created beings for that use," Bin Laden has said.) His supporters seem particularly exercised by Israel's reaction to the current intifada, Bergen says. Bin Laden also can't tolerate American alliances with moderate Arab governments in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait.

Mainstream Muslims denounce Bin Laden's bloody-mindedness—in 1998 he issued a fatwa calling for attacks on all Americans—but he has found plenty of firebrand clerics to offer Quranic backing for his belief that terrorism is glorious. According to Bodansky, these mullahs insist that all methods of war, including terrorism, are justified in the battle against the infidels. (Bin Laden, holding up a Quran, puts it this way: "You cannot defeat the heretic with this book alone. You have to show them the fist.")

Bin Laden has strategic reasons to believe in terrorism, too. The Muslim victory over the Soviet Union in Afghanistan showed him that superpowers are not so superpowerful. And the ignominious American withdrawal from Somalia—following a Bin Laden connected attack—convinced him that the United States is morally weak. The U.S. soldier is "a paper tiger" who crumples after "a few blows."

It is a mistake to assume that killing Bin Laden means killing his movement. It's true that Bin Laden is an iconic leader who inspires his followers and millions of sympathizers in the Muslim world. But eliminating Bin Laden would do nothing to decrease the intensity of the other militant Islamists. The Afghan war created a cadre of warriors and belligerent clerics who are constantly recruiting. Bin Laden has a core of highly trained aides ready to continue his work. His trainees are scattered in two dozen countries. It is hard to imagine how the United States could neutralize all of them. And attacks on Bin Laden have only increased his popularity: Killing him would likely rally many more Muslims to his cause.

(Some pundits have suggested that killing Bin Laden would be effective because it would stanch the flow of cash to terrorists. This may not be so. Bin Laden's groups do get funds from his personal fortune, but they also finance operations by dunning wealthy Gulf Arabs and by siphoning off donations to Muslim charities. And the terror organization is cheap. They don't use heavy weapons, and it costs almost nothing to house and train hundreds of men in Afghanistan.)

Is there anything we can do to persuade Bin Laden to stop? The terror groups Americans are familiar with—Palestinian bombers and hijackers, IRA hard men—have desires we understand. They perform acts of terror in order to gain sympathy or sow fear. That sympathy or fear is a means to their end: political recognition, a state, compensation. They seek to participate in our world.

But Bin Laden and his followers are alarming because they don't want anything from us. They don't want our sympathy. They want no material thing we can offer them. They don't want to participate in the community of nations. (They don't really believe in the nation-state.) They are motivated by religion, not politics. They answer to no one but their god, so they certainly won't answer to us.

[Guest jaxl]

Ok, I'm not up to speed on my Middle-Eastern history, so let me see if I have this correct:

1- The Israelis and the Palestinians have been fighting for however long over holy land that they both feel belong to them

2- The US is trying to get both sides together to peacefully come to a resolution

3 - The Palestinians hate the Americans because we have gotten involved and want the fighting and killing to stop, so they in turn kill innocent Americans. But we're called the war-mongering nation???

I don't you about you folks, but when I was little and fighting with one of my siblings over something we both wanted, my mother took it away from both of us and both of us did without. I know it's not as simplistic as that, but maybe it needs to be.

While I agree that war may not be not the solution, we have to do something. How much longer are we as Americans going to bend over and take it up the ass? We open our borders to any and everyone (myself included) so they can escape whatever oppressive religion/government they're trying to escape. I'm 1st generation Guyanese-American (from South America) and I've been in this country since I was 6 years old (I'm 35 now) and I thank God everyday that my parents sacrificed everything they had to get my brothers, sisters and myself out of Guyana and for giving us the opportunity to have the kind of life that we would not have otherwise been able to have. What more could you possibly ask for??? So when I hear people complaining about the Americans this or that, I just want to scream that if you don't like it, get the hell out

It's hard to believe that with all the technology we have at our disposal, we can't find the SOB Bin Laden (assuming it's him) and take his ass out along with his cronies. Don't even bother extriditing him, just shoot him on the spot. Why waste the American tax-payers money to feed and clothe him in one of our federal prisons. Or better yet, take him up in an airplane in the desert somewhere, strap a bomb to his back, push him out of the plane without a parachute and when he's far enough down, detonate the bomb. He's hiding out somewhere saving his cowardly ass and got all these idiots killing themselves and innocent people for his cause.

It disgusted me to watch the news and see all those small kids dancing in the streets celebrating what their countrymen did. They all looked like they couldn't be any older than 10 years old. How brainwashed are they at such a young age?

Just my two cents on the madness

[Guest jaxl]

Originally posted by jester22

What does he want? SPEAKING OF BIN LADEN!

They are motivated by religion, not politics. They answer to no one but their god, so they certainly won't answer to us.

Thar's fine, if that's what they believe, but I'd like to know what god they're worshipping? Can't be the same one I do

[crobra]

Originally posted by godslze

Here's my analogy to the whole Israel/Palestine dispute... imagine the UN were to take New Jersey and say, "Sorry United States, this land belongs to the Leni Lenape Indians again. You have to divide New Jersey into two and share it." After all, this land was the Native Americans land not 400 years ago. Would the people of New Jersey be pissed? Hell yes. Now, say the people of New Jersey refuse to recognize this and claim that New Jersey's theirs. While protesting this division, the Leni Lenape suddenly seize the majority of New Jersey while New York and Pennsylvania take the remainder.

This is basically what happened to the Palestinians. Palestine was their homeland for 2000+ years, figure since the time of the Romans. The West decided that the Jews had the right to the land since they owned it several millenia previous and it was their religious homeland (although it was also the birthplace of Christianity and Islam). And as for why I used the analogy of New Jersey it's because Israel is no larger than New Jersey.

This is a great analogy! But the reality is since the Israeli's are living there for the past 50 years and Arabs before that, how do settle this. You have this generation of Israeli's who lay claim to the land and then you have all the old arabs who lay claim to the land - I think they only way is if both sides make an effort to co-exist peacefully!!

[sassa]

The US provides Israel with military arms and even "asked" them to sign a treaty stating that Israel would only buy their arms and weapons from the US alone. The US gives Israel over 5 BILLION a year of aid...that's like all Israeli citizens getting a free thousand dollars each...The US talks about having peace in the Middle East and so forth, yet goes and does this. If they truly wanted peace, they would stop giving out weapons of destruction and try to work on getting the two sides to work together and solve this problem they have. But money apparently is much more important than saving some lives.

[wackydream]

i just want to comment on a few points

first of all, if you kill bin laden, or whoever else is the ringleader, that wont punish them personally. their belief system is very different from ours, and this war to them is a holy war. if they die in battle - what greater honor than that? and as someone pointed out, bin laden and co. have a lot of supporters all over the middle east and probably in other regions as well, so by getting rid of one or two, we wont get rid of all. and then he has a chance to become a religious hero, a saint, if you will, who was slain in battle. that could possibly escalate the violence as means of retribution.

secondly, the US tried to set israel and arab leaders down for some heart-to-heart talks for a while. the problem with them is that they dont want to kiss and make up. thousands of lives have been lost on both sides, and neither one wants to forgive and forget. they simply cant. while israel seems to be a little more rational from where we stand and at least less aggressive, they refuse to make significant concessions to the arabs, and the arabs, fueled by religious pride, among other things, refuse to make any concessions to israel or the US, whom they see as the chief ally of the greatest "evil" - israel. so while they have been bombing the israelis for quite some time now, they figured that its about time to open another front in this war, and fucked around with us.

the images of kids dancing in the streets are disturbing and sickening, no doubt about that. however, we must remember that those are not all the kids of the arab countries (i forget where the footage comes from). these are children of fundamental religious muslim tradition, which is also followed by the taliban and many people in pakistan as well. there are many others who are scared to death sitting in their homes with the border between afganistan and other places closed, because they are afraid that they will die if we decide to wipe out the whole country. they have nothing to do with any of this insanity. im no expert on islam, but the more moderate stance of it definitely does not support slaughter of innocent people. nether does christianity or judaism, for that matter. these people who aim to destroy as many civillians as they can in the us and israel and other places seem sick to us, but they are driven by their own belief system, which allows for such actions. it must be noted that this belief system is not true for everyone living in those countries. we would step down to the level of these terrorists if we blindly went after the entire nation or the entire people. genocide is rarely a sound means of international relations.

guess this pretty much sums it up...i might be off on some points, do feel free to let me know. the arab-israel relations are complicated enough to get lost in the numerous wars and arguments

[JonStephen]

Who cares why they are so happy. The point is they are.

Lets put it this way, I am not going to be sad if I hear of their country and their citizens getting bombed!