tribal

what a stupid thread. does everything have to be posted on a public mess board?? wtf is wrong with people these days.

anyone know good discounters? need tix for like 5 people. thanx

latin, kind of like quid pro quo.. to yourself as unto me. breaks, i enjoy having this debate with you because you are somewhat coherent and logical with your argument unlike many people here. the thing is, i really think you hold the PA in too high of an esteem. this is one area that i disagree with you on. arafat is by far no hero. neither is sharon, whom i despise just as much. there were many people during the early nineties that had this premonition of a metamorphed ex terrorist. 'oh but he changed' they would say, 'arafat is now a legit leader', but its an illusion. the combination of arafat and sharon at the helm is whats brewing the storm. if we had more moderates with more balls leading their people, perhaps people like ashrawi and some israeli moderate (am not aware of any at the moment). now regarding the eventual palst state. i have deep doubts that this state would solve attacks against israelis. say the israelis unconditionally withdraw to pre 67 borders, no checkpoints, no bufferzones, none of that. i have deep reservations that the attacks would stop. an israeli withdrawal would be seen as a major weakness and be exploited by militant groups for more attacks. remember, you are not dealing with conventional army here like Egypt and Syria. you are dealing with guerrilas, who have no formal agreement language to keep. adding to that dillemma, how would you propose the make up of this new palst state? would it be divided into wbank and gaza? thats not too rational now is it? i really dont know what to make of all this. i just want all my friends in the army over there, to come here before they are killed.

FUCK ISRAEL AND FUCK PALESTINE!! Im sick of both!! Both are fuckin wrong !! and Both are making problems for the world!!! kind of like Pakistan and India right? fuck em both as well. but i think youre right in one aspect, this war has no heroes, no right, just all the wrong. i think the article above proves that very well. why cant things be different?

cintron you crazy mofo! i love your sig man!

this guy was one of some 200 israeli soldiers who signed a petiition against serving the territories. very well written. I dont wholly agree with the refuseniks, but this story is very touching. ---------------------------- That night, I was a bit drunk. We sat around drinking in honor of Daniel who came all the way from France and made aliyah so he could faithfully serve the country, the army and Tali the female military social worker. We uncorked a Johnny Walker that Tali’s brother gave her, and we were listening to the Doors while smoking some hashish. You can’t be a real Nahal Corps soldier without drinking Johnny Walker, listening to the Doors, or smoking hashish. And the select few partake in all three… We’d just gotten back from Lebanon, and after a week of R&R we were sent right to the territories, to Gaza. There’s no place like Gaza. With its blue sea and excellent hummus which even if you include a ton of pita bread, cracked olives and French fries won’t cost you more than 10 shekels, you’d even get back some change. Let me tell you about these Gazan olives. First of all, they are the most bitter ones in the entire world. Gaza people say that the olives get their bitterness from life in the Gaza strip. From the pressure of our occupation and the previous one and the one before that. And not only are these olives bitter, they can also drive you crazy with their saltiness. And that is because of the tears of the Gaza women. Tears they shed in the olive groves seep through into the olives. The women of Gaza were the true heroes. While the men were busy tending to the miseries of life and looking for ways to liberate themselves from this or that occupation, the women were busy taking care of the kids, preparing the food and working in the groves. In the groves they had quality time. All alone there, they cried for their youth and for their dreams; for the sons who were killed or sent to prison, or for the sons who will be killed or will be sent to prison. And the olives – they took it all in, which – contrary to general opinion – made them taste great and go very well with Whisky. Suddenly I thought about my mother who doesn’t sleep at night. I tried to explain to her that all we did was drink Whisky and eat cracked olives. But she didn’t believe me, my mother, and began to cry. She said she was scared. That she had bad dreams. Mom and her dreams. I told her not to worry and not to cry because if she did, the water in the Israeli aquifer would get salty and it would be her fault. This is what happened in Gaza and that’s why they are oppressed and occupied. It did not help, though. There’s no one like mom. Tali said that Jim Morrison was King and started dancing. She was so beautiful, Tali! With her direct manners and her flat stomach and her breasts with the nipples that stood up like two small hills in the prairie. Daniel joined her and they kissed. I sat by myself and thought how Daniel was a victim of life. A human being whose life got screwed up and no one was paying attention. Last week, during the demonstration near the green Mosque, Daniel accidentally fired some shots into the crowd and some pregnant Gaza woman was killed. I ran to her trying to provide some help, but she was already dying. She gave me a sad look and had tears in her eyes. She had a fifth month belly, and I knew she’d lost the baby. She was bleeding heavily from the abdomen and it took me a while to insert the IV and start the transfusion. Then she died at 6:00PM. Roni, the MD, and I began to cry. Manny, the driver, mumbled that she was just an Arab. Dead, so what? But he too was sad and I could see he was having a hard time with it. I kissed him on his forehead and told him to drive to headquarters. No one said a word to Daniel. There was an investigation and it was decided that this had been a mistake. An accidental bullet. But no one talked to Daniel. I told Roni that Daniel needs some time off, that we need to talk to him, that he seemed strange. But Roni was busy and we were all busy: there were more demonstrations and more people got killed and I felt as if I was slowly going crazy. They taught us to fire our rifles, to set up ambushes, jump from an airplane, carry our gear, run, fall, run again. They forgot to teach us to talk, cry, forgive ourselves. Daniel looked at Tali, gave her another kiss, and said that he was stepping out for a second to take a leak. I asked him if he wanted some company. Nah, he said, stay here and keep and eye on Tali for me. I stayed with Tali. After a minute, we heard a shot. -Tal Belo (Staff Sgt. IDF Armored Corps)

breaks, there you go, you contradict yourself again why is the israeli standard of living 10 better than any of its neighbors??? should we blame israelis for that? once again, go back to my export question. what does israel offer to the world, and what do arab states offer to the world? seriously, besides olives, oil and figs, what do arab states have to offer the global market? i can name you at least 30 products and technologies that a tiny nation of 6 million offers to the world. the arab countries arent intent on destroying israel?? really now. do you want to open a history book and maybe take a look at their record so far. just because they failed miserably before, doesnt mean they wont try again. and your assessment of Syria's alleged benignity to israel is core bullshit. Syria maintains dozens of armor divisions as well as chemical weapons on their side of the green line. theyre still pretty pissed about losing Golan dont forget. breaks, im not saying sharon is right and arafat is wrong, theyre both evil men with no clear vision. what im saying is that israel gets a lot of bad rap, and other nonsense like 'state terrorism' when they defend themselves. the palst are not defenseless, its a myth. and if you want me to disprove that myth, read any headline on any given day. Its either mortar attacks, suicide explosions, missiles, roadside bombs, rifle attacks or grenades. yes, you are naive about your view of PA. they ARE cooperating with damascus in terms of weapon purchases and hezbola cooperation. im not saying the PA is the same as hezbola, theyre not, but they both have a common enemy. remember the karine A? wasnt the PA either , you say. read the t. friedman article in today's times. very very interesting

sasa, you wanna post about your views on this war and our govt, do it in another thread. what you did was disrespectful for the dead. this is about honoring fallen soldiers, who unlike you, love their country and are making sure the 3000+ wtc dead did not die in vain. because of people like them, you have a chance to voice your dissent, which is fine for another topic, other than this. god bless the fallen soldiers.

oh and breaks, re: the PA - Hezbola connection i think youre quite naive in your view of PA heres an exerp from debkafile, an intelligence news site -------------------- On December 31, 2001, DEBKAfile revealed that Richard Reid, the “shoe bomber” who attempted to blow up an American Airlines Paris-Miami flight on December 22, spent ten days the previous July in the Gaza Strip Jebalya district, as the guest of the Hamas military arm activist Nabil Aqal. Also revealed was that Aqal received from the Palestinian Authority’s Gaza Strip security chief Mohamed Dahlan a quantity of C-4 explosive spiked according to an al Qaeda formula for boosting its blast effect. The formula reached the Gaza Strip with the Hizballah cells Arafat imported from Lebanon in the fall of 2000. Aqal handed the deadly substance to Reid. Nearly two months ago, therefore, Dahlan was known to have manufactured upgraded C-4, the very explosive found in Reid’s shoes and now identified as the substance used to blow up the Merkava tank. Both came from the same source: PA officer Dahlan working to an al Qaeda formula! Friday night, February 15, Israel television Channel 2’s Arab Affairs Commentator Ehud Ya’ari revealed that Dahlan’s security forces had joined forces with the Hamas military arm in the operation against the Merkava tank. Within seconds, Dahlan was on the phone to Channel 2 demanding that Yaari retract his “lies”. Yaari stuck to his guns and repeated his story. The Palestinian security chief jerked into action because the television disclosure was a giveaway. His hand in blowing up the tank was exposed and. It was only a step before the explosive was named as the upgraded C-4 formula found in the shoes of the al Qaeda bomber. Add to this that Dahlan is famous for not blowing his nose without permission from his boss, PA Chairman Yasser Arafat, and the link to al Qaeda goes straight to the top. This disclosure is at least as damning as the smuggled arms cargo aboard the Karine-A – which is why Dahlan was so desperate to suppress it. --------------------- breaks think about it. 2 years ago, barak left s. lebanon due to the heavy cost (financially/militarily) of maintaing troops there. the hezbola saw this as a military victory. they are now working closely with PA groups at attacking israeli civilians and soldiers. that tank explosive had the same chemical characteristics as the explosives the israelis had to deal with in lebanon. what many people here dont understand, is that attempting to deal with arafat for a fair and equitable peace is futile. youre dealing with a proven terrorist, a man unable to compromise on a shared future. kind of like sharon. i dont like sharon much either.

If you're so concerned about starving homeless people, how about letting one of them move into your huge apartment, and you can feed him and take care of him? How about spending some of your hard earned money, instead of just whining that the government should do something? Obviously, you have very little respect for people. You think everyone is a victim, as if no one has free will. Tobacco companies don't kill people. No one puts a gun to anyones head and makes them smoke. People who die from lung cancer have no one to blame but themselves. The same applies to drunks and drug addicts. Its the same stupid attitude that got Twilo closed. Stupid kids who can't handle their drugs or who do GHB die, and Twilo gets the blame. Its fucking bollocks. . We were all born with brains. We all have free will. People have to learn that there are consequences to their actions, instead of constantly cloaking themselves in victimhood. Your entire attitude toward life is just thinly veiled Marxism, except that you just preach but never follow through. completely agree on that. yo breaks, let me ask you something. why is it so politically accepted among the liberal circles to call the PA areas 'Israeli occupied'?? lets not forget a few things here. after the 93 Oslo accords, the palst were left to manage their own areas in west bank and gaza, with major israeli checkpoints dismantled in those areas. the only checkpoints left were the ones on the israeli border. now to the issue of 'occupied' land. why are those areas 'occupied' anyway? lets take alook now. after the 67 war, the arab coalition was humiliatingly defeated on the battlefield, and after jordan attacked israel, the israelis fought back and ran over jordanian positions stationed in east jersualem and west bank. the cease fire was signed with israelis in full control of those areas. now let me ask you this question. i control all of New York, you control Essex County in NJ. I attack you, thinking i can wipe you out from the face of the earth, yet you prove to be a capable fighter and in the end, i lose Manhattan, and sign a cease fire. now how can i go up to you and say to your face, 'Hey give me back my Manhattan, youre an occupier', when it was me that attacked you in the first place. youre thinking about this conflict from a pure palst point of view. try incorporating the israeli side into it.

if anyone has seen the movie Mars Attacks, bigmah reminds me of that general with sunglasses who wants to nuke the martians the moment they land. "Idiots! Intellectuals! Peacemongers! Nuke Nuke Nuke, kill kill destroy!" haha, listen bigmah, stop that shit, post your points like the civilized western that you are. if you want to deport everyone who disagrees with you, youre no better than the people you say are animals. breaks, read my post 1 page back, and tell me if you disagree. ive said what i needed to say on this subject.

go411, just a hint, if you type ALL YOUR RESPONSES LIKE THIS, its not going to make your p.o.v. appear any more valid. i think many people here are very disillusioned with a number of things. 1. before people like go41 rabidly bash this country, they should consider the reasons why much of the mideast hates us. Consider the exports and the industry of these countries to around the world. Try to name 10 products that you use often that were manufactured from a mid east country other than Israel and Turkey. 2. consider what the children of those countries are taught at schools and madrassas. while our children are taught about MLK, tolerance and racial harmony (albeit there is still much discontent), their children are taught hate, female oppression, anti semitic views and promises of 'martyrs' paradise'. 3. give me one invention or technological advance (non Israeli) that came out of any mid east country in the past 50 years. 4. i know its unpopular and un 'politically correct' to say this, but their culture needs a massive overhaul in order to keep up with the rest of the world. its easy to blame all your problems on the big bad US, while ignoring the rotting pillars of the current mid east states which are rife with extremism, terrorism and lack of industry. Saudia Arabia had more Koran scholars graduates than any other profession. take a fucking guess what that means. 5. regarding Israel. any claims that israelis are 'murdering' palst are just plain false. the people who say these things STILL view the palst as rock throwing 'oppressed' people. what you dont see is the connection of PA with Syria, Iran and hezbolla, the missiles fired at israeli cities, the daily mortar and bomb attacks against israeli citizens. the hezbola explosives placed on a road, destroying an israeli tank and killing its crew. i would never support these people and saying they are oppressed and their terrorism is justified, is like saying a criminal who murdered dozens of people should be set free, because he had a bad childhood. if you still see the palst as defenseless, oppressed and innocent people, open your fucking eyes. read the headlines. 6. its time for a Muslim Renaissance. they really need it right about now.

yo breaks, check out the site this fuck posted. ******** <-- JudeoNazis these are the people that are a big part of the problem in the current conflict. this usa fuck is a pure judeo nazi. read Victor Ostrovsky's book By Way of Deception, this ex-mossad officer talks about how the judeo nazis followed him and tried to kill him becuase Ostrovsky exposed clear humanitarian violations by the mossad. ignore this usa prick, this piece of shit is just as worthless as hamas, the nazis and every other slime that walked this earth.

looking for websites, companies,etc, trying to find the best price. thanx

DaVe, cant you ban this poor excuse for humanity?? seriously, this is extremely annoying, same mindless drivel from this moron. dude, no one likes you here, stop posting this shit already, you arent making anyone more aware, cautious or afraid. youre a pest.

i like raspberry donuts and strawberries with whipped cream. mmm.

best news ive heard in a while. Hamm. ballroom is decent, certainly better than that shithole exit.

damn these germans have loooong names.

dusted = igloo, gots to be.

karch, all i ever fucking hear is how US exploits this, fucks over that. tell you what, show me one clear case of what everyone here is bitching about and maybe i will agree. no one is saying US is perfect, but its not the oppresive tyrant people here claim it to be. for 1 instance of US 'oppression' i can show you 10 countries that benefited from dealing with US. because of us, the entire western Europe is rich and powerful, japan and southeast asia are industrialized and have a higher GDP than ever before. i could go on and on, the fact is that vast amounts of complaints against US arent based on anything but speculation. tony, if you like sleeping on streets and eating garbage, thats your fad man, not mine. if you are willing to be such a mother teresa, go ahead, dont burden us with that. if you ever took economics, you'd know the concept of utility. maybe by sleeping in streets, your level of utility is greater than mine, sleeping in a warm bed. dont lay that moralistic anti-materialist shit on me. ill go to a church when i need a sermon. sonicfuck, if you want peace so much, why do you curse out at the indians every chance you get? seems hypocritical. your link doesnt work by the way. ciao.

sonicinf, you are like a cartoon. whenever someone says or posts something negative, you yap 'Indians'!!! cmon man, i know you hate indians cause you are pakistani, but try something original, maybe like, 'they eat too much curry, thats why they suck', i dont know, something. please. india at least has its shit together, their economy is growing, never heard of indian terrorists and they dont chop reporters heads off. simply yapping that indians are bad isnt necessarily convincing anyone here.

for the hackneyed US bashers. consider 3 things. 1.as opposed to the rest of the world, the chief exports of mid-east to this day are a. oil b. olives c.bananas d. terrorism Hmmm why is the region poor???? oh yes offcourse, its our arm/leg shacking golden arches that are keeping them down. sorry forgot. ok next, 2. in Saudi arabia, there are twice as many graduates of the extremist Wahabi islamic studies than there are computer programmers, scientists, lawyers and doctors hmm tough one here. oh yes, i see, perhaps i dont understand their culture well enough to understand why they have no industries that could run an economy, you see im an 'unenlightened' and crude piggish american warmonger. sorry, i apologize. 3. in his book From Beirut to Jerusalem, NYTimes journalist T.Friedman mentions an interesting Arabic tale. this old man had a turkey. it was a fine bird of feather. one night, some local thieves came by and stole the bird. the next day, the old man's son says 'father, we should go, take our turkey back, and punish the people who stole our turkey!' The old man was hesitant and did not want to start commotion over a turkey. The next day the man's camels were stolen. 'Father" says the son 'We must punish the people who did this to us, the people who stole our turkey' 'Its ok,' says the old man 'they wont steal anything again, theres nothing to steal anymore' The next day, the old man's daughter was raped. 'My daughter was raped all because of that turkey. i should have punished the people that stole the turkey, my daughter was raped because i let them have my turkey' cried the old man. gentlemen, on sept 11, they stole our turkey. all 3000+ of them. when we sit and deliberate who we have offended or present hypothetical oppression stories and not take action against the murderers who did this, the murderers are seeing this as a sign of weakness. as much as i dislike bush, i complement him on the current military campaign and the anti terror initiative. our turkey was stolen. lets make sure we still have our camels and our daughter's cherry intact.

tony i dont know where you travelled, but the rest of the world does not hate us. there are elements in every country that lay blame on US for shortcomings in their own societies. the rest of the world does not hate US, you are getting that assumption from your ass. many of the points you said are completely off, for example our sanctions on Iraq. we are killing innocent iraqis? oh so thats how it is. or did you not know that saddam buys weapons with the money he earns from the oil that they do sell, instead of food and medicine for his people. idiot, think logically, if we were to not put those sanctions on his ass, what do you think would happen? would the children of iraq be well fed and clothed??? or would saddam finally complete the nuclear warheads he has such a hard on for? read a book by Scott Ritter called Endgame, maybe you will understand issues a bit better, before you yap stupid shit like US is the 'oppressor'. read the article posted by wallflour earlier, it explains perfectly how i feel about this entire issue, and then try to debate me.

its SQLPlus, but i guess i cant save worksessions. a friend just explained that all tables are saved in same file. sql is great, except i gotta get used to it.

karch do you have any clue what youve said? israel murdered muslims in many muslim countries? are you referring to people like abu nidal, the terrorist that planned the tel aviv disco bombings? bro, read the article that wallflowr posted above, the WSJ article, get a better understanding before you say stupid shit like that. poor US-mistreated arab states, its not their fault theyre repressed, violent and poor, no, its us, the evil americans.