dgmodel Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 if you believe in GOD, can you believe in LUCK at the same time? or would it be a conflict of intrest??? any GOD (Christian/Cath,Jewish,Muslim,Buddhist,Eckankar...etc) any Luck, Good, Bad, Void of ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by dgmodel if you believe in GOD, can you believe in LUCK at the same time? or would it be a conflict of intrest??? any GOD (Christian/Cath,Jewish,Muslim,Buddhist,Eckankar...etc) any Luck, Good, Bad, Void of ... hmm i can only reply from a christian perspective (that is the only one i know). i don't think that one can believe in God and in Luck at the same time. Fortuna is a Goddess from classical antiquity, and though it was often represented (as an allegory) in Renaissance art, Chritian beliefs collide with the concept of Fate and Luck. Everything that happens to us, according to Church, is the will of God; Even if we for example die in an accident, that is not to be taken as bad luck, because through such a death one earns salvation, if one is not sinful that is....ugh, wel i hope this helps a bit...it's amazing how one gets intellectual at late night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synderella420 Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Yes.. I definitely believe in both.. God is not luck he is religion..he decides your fate...Luck is more like something that would happen on a whim..Good theory by the way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xyminx Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 But can't you argue that luck is God's way of giving you a break? If you're lucky, may that day God's hearing your prayers, wishes , hopes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted March 20 Author Report Share Posted March 20 anyhoo...RE:Zlatang:Your answer is perfect.. thats just what i wanted to hear, and others opinions as well... this was something that struck me when i was speaking to my parents... theyre very Religious... big time... and yet they're constantly speaking about luck, and i said if you believe in GOD, how do you believe in LUCK? i think it was Com.1. that said "though shalt not believe/worship in false GODS before me) <hey btw, what about after him? hrrrm?> but yeah so i was trying to say to my parents its one or the other... and they just said " i like to cause probs cause im not a believer etc. blah " then they answered with the all time cliche... blah but lets not get crazy here.. just wanted hear/read other opinions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhouse Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Why wouldn't you be able to believe in both? A lot of modern theologans (not that I can name any off the top of my head) subscribe to the 'God's backing off and watching things run' theory. Of course, the 'tended garden' theory is still more popular, but if there hadn't been belief in luck back in earlier Christianity, there would have been no reason for Calvin to have come up with the concept of predestination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highmay Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 depends on how you define them...im not elaborating because im not in the fucking mood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barslut Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 I eat mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xyminx Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by dgmodel anyhoo... u think i'm stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgmodel Posted March 20 Author Report Share Posted March 20 absolutley not... far from it... that "anyhoo" was supposed to be a continuation from my subject line but it wouldnt fit... sorry for the miscommunication there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghhhhhost Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 not to oversimplify DG's argument ..but arent the IRISH which are one of the most deeply religious groups in the world..and arent they the ones who always refer to the LUCK OF THE IRISH....i hope no one misconstrues my intentions here (QUOTH AHAH)..but if youre going by that then LUCK and Religion can co-exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o-jay® Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by brickhouse Why wouldn't you be able to believe in both? A lot of modern theologans (not that I can name any off the top of my head) subscribe to the 'God's backing off and watching things run' theory. Of course, the 'tended garden' theory is still more popular, but if there hadn't been belief in luck back in earlier Christianity, there would have been no reason for Calvin to have come up with the concept of predestination. I agree with this. I believe God set the wheel in motion, and let's things take their course. If you subscribe to this theory, both concepts are compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewater Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Your gonna have your good days and your bad days, and whether or not you think God and/or luck is responsible, they are gonna happen regardless...Shite Happens Lou () Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by dgmodel anyhoo...RE:Zlatang:Your answer is perfect.. thats just what i wanted to hear, and others opinions as well... this was something that struck me when i was speaking to my parents... theyre very Religious... big time... and yet they're constantly speaking about luck, and i said if you believe in GOD, how do you believe in LUCK? i think it was Com.1. that said "though shalt not believe/worship in false GODS before me) <hey btw, what about after him? hrrrm?> but yeah so i was trying to say to my parents its one or the other... and they just said " i like to cause probs cause im not a believer etc. blah " then they answered with the all time cliche... blah but lets not get crazy here.. just wanted hear/read other opinions... wow...it's like two hours since i posted and there are 12 replies...are we really living in the age of atheism? speaking of religious families, my mother's geneaology is composed of 14 generations of priests (can be traced back to the 14th century, i needn't comment further on the aristocratic pretensions of such a geneaology)yes, i think you were right - one doesn't pray to christian god for luck; happiness in however another thing, because one can enjoy happiness and not be lucky, ie in looking at the natural beauties and contemplating them as creations fo God. is this really a clubbing website? i must be losing my mind, LOL. i think that this is the resulkt of the new anti-depressants i'm on....talking about compensation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by ghhhhhost not to oversimplify DG's argument ..but arent the IRISH which are one of the most deeply religious groups in the world..and arent they the ones who always refer to the LUCK OF THE IRISH....i hope no one misconstrues my intentions here (QUOTH AHAH)..but if youre going by that then LUCK and Religion can co-exist hmm the treasures of the irish folklore need to be distinguished from religious issues here i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatang Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by highmay depends on how you define them...im not elaborating because im not in the fucking mood LOL perhaps you are just not lucky today? lucky as us who discuss religion instead of having fun...doing drugs....lol..oh yes - it is also by being a sinner that one can reach God...remember that:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoth Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Originally posted by ghhhhhost not to oversimplify DG's argument ..but arent the IRISH which are one of the most deeply religious groups in the world..and arent they the ones who always refer to the LUCK OF THE IRISH....i hope no one misconstrues my intentions here (QUOTH AHAH)..but if youre going by that then LUCK and Religion can co-exist though im not religious, there is a strong belief in the luck of the irish,its not just a saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehacker Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 things happen.then other things happen.it all seems to happen for a reason.but humans simply cannot comprehendthat a controlling force is behind it all,nor can they possibly decipher the planwithout getting muddled up in the detailsand resorting to just being confusedand awestruck.then more things happen...next topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuturephunk Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 . . . I don't believe a force is acting on anything . . . It's more . . . err . . . . . . . . . There was a Nissan commercial (I think) that started out with a closeup shot of a butterfly . . . A narrator came in with "A butterfly flaps it's wings in a South American Jungle, which causes a small breeze of air to startle a cow, which causes a stampede . . . " . . and so on . . . make a long story short . . . The narrator traces a chain of events all the way up to the thunderstorm that is now vexing the beautiful wax job on that new Sentra . . . . . anyways . . . The point is that . . a small event causes another small event, which in turn could cause several more . . and so on . . These events exponentially increase until entire masses of the human race are killing each other over a strip of land in central europe and a cheese steak . . . . (don't ask me . . . It sounded right at the time . . . . . ) . . . . . . Now what does this have to do with so called "fate" that we, in theory, abide by, or the "luck" that is inflicted on us? . . . . Honestly I don't know, but I will make an honest stoner observation . . . . . . Taking the above as plausible theory, one could speculate that the the universe's origin of existence is in fact driven by the consciousness of it's inhabitants . . . as if to say there would be no universe if there was no consciousness . . . Humans, in particular are able to control their own destinies . . . therefore, taking the theory into account, we control existence through our actions on a large scale . . . One human being walking a trail is one thing . . . Several Hundred riding in a train is another . . . And it's not just "us" that causes the reaction . . it's our inventions as well . . . . . . We're the only species that can create on a monumental scale . . . No other biological force on this earth can claim the same . . . Our bridges and skyscrapers and busses and Ships and all that is large in human ingenuity . . . Our only legacy as a species, for we don't fit into the rational system that is nature in any logical sense . . . are our inventions . . . The creations that serve monumental needs of our species . . . Even the everyday stuff, like cars and cigarette lighters still come into play in shaping our existence . . . We create, and the universe is created in response . . . . . . What about in the vastness of space? . . . except for the planets that are blessed to support life, there is no consciousness there . . . How do we disprove the notion that the universe is all just random chance? . . . The theory would exclude deep space since no consciousness spends time observing all of it . . . therefore it wouldn't exist . . . . . . . you would think . . . realize though . . that people are going to be checking luggage in the morning . . . . . . . . .... . . . ... .. . . . ...... . . . . . . . . . . . errr . . . . ....... . .. . . . . . . . . ... . . .. . . Fuck!! . . . . I lost it . . . . I had the answer to existence . . . I saw it . . I really fucking did! . . . . and it just left me like so many bad nights . . . . . . .arrgghh. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 i think the entity we refer to god is a mathematical law. something like the concept of infinity. theres this really interesting book called the Myster of the Aleph, basically this famous mathematician named Cantor wanted to explore the depth of the concept of infinity, he gave us many valuable mathematical laws, yet went insane, because he was unable to deal with the understanding of true infinity. The jews have an ancient mythology called the Kabalah, which is a mathematically based transcription of God's laws and edicts. its a very complicated issue, but dont you find it funny how everything has a mathematical law behind it? Mathematics is the language of naturrrrreee! i think the whole vision of god as an old guy in the sky is very silly. if there is a fundamental law that encompasses the structure of the universe, and the dynamics of the chaos theory and dark matter, it may be our 'god'. God may be nothing more than whirlpools of photons and electrons. by the way, Juri Hulkonnen = mini God, im listening to his Fjord mix, awesssooome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpander Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Originally posted by phuturephunk . . . I don't believe a force is acting on anything . . . It's more . . . err . . . . . . I can't believe you slapped chaos theory onto a Nissan commercial...that was just MEAN! Anyways, to meander through what phunk is saying and onto my own...The compatibility between "luck" and "god" very much depends on how you define those two words. It's very much important in trying to resolve the two to develop your own definition of what the two means.For instance, if "god" as you understand it really doesn't interfere with reality, then still, there is no such thing as luck. Because reality, even if it is infinite, is ultimately a closed system (because there is no "outside" influences), and within a closed system with NO outside influences, order reigns supreme. If you believe that "god" DOES interfere, however...then it comes down to what you believe "god" really is (IE, how much power does he/she/it/whatever hold over reality and if reality is capable of having any counter-impacts)And yes, I'm an agnostic (quite insufficient at describing my mindset...but whatever). It's the finer details of personal belief that the question that DGmodel asked must address.And as for Tribal...Mathematics isn't so much the language of nature...as it is our way of understanding the manifestations of order in nature (or as I believe, the order that IS nature)...imho, of course...By the way...I'd like every single one of you that's reading this sentence to take a moment out of your day and try to behold the concept of infinity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehacker Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Originally posted by xpander I'd like every single one of you that's reading this sentence to take a moment out of your day and try to behold the concept of infinity... stole my line dude.i always tell friends of mine,when i'm going on and on about my theoriesabout parallel universes and how things areinconsequential and yet driven by some invisibleforce all at the same time, about how for all weknow we could be living countless parallelexistences all at once -- that we are all thingsto all people to all entities in all situtations,all at once -- but our view is limited only toa single timeline among innumerable timelines,and it's possible that the only way that can be,is that nothing really exists; things existbecause our perception, our five senses,even our senses themselves, are merelyfigments of imagination, and we are alljust viewing, in any given situation/scene,the equivalent of one frame of stop motionanimation, among endless frames, amongendless reels of film all turning at once, andhow significant events can cause our viewto shift from one strip to the next...and then they look at me funny.they'll rap their knuckles on a nearbypiece of furniture and say "you're tellingme this doesn't exist? that's absurd!"and then i ask them to take five minutes out of their life...and try to just clear their mind of all thoughtand attempt to grasp the mere concept of Forever.and i say how i've done it before,and it scared the shit out of me,but caused me to feel somewhat enlightened.they try.but they fail.some try harder, and at least sort ofunderstand what i was driving at... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehacker Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 my point being, in all that theory and conjecture and speculation...that it's pointless to try to quantify one's life events.there are just too many variables.too many possible futures.not even possible futures, but too manypossible pasts and presents as well...it's just not meant to be understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehacker Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 so where does that leave each of us?either...you can accept that most things are utterly beyond your control,develop some form of blind faith (be it religion -- not the routineof it, but the why of it; be it belief in a faceless, namelessall powerful force; be it just plain simple acceptance) andtake life's journey for what it is... and appreciate thesheer wonderment and chaos of it.or...you can spend your entire life trying to find meaningin what happens to you and those around you.the choice is entirely yours.i've already made mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehacker Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 the mistake most people make,is that they heed social pressures insteadof their own inner guiding voice about what to do...i truly believe everyone knows what's the right thing,both for them, and for others... follow and see whereit takes you. i have yet to be disappointed. and thetimes that i have been, it has been those timesi blatantly ignored it, and knew it at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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