**UPDATED 3** Recent examples of a collapsing club scene:

[Guest Marina22]

What I mean by DJ Worship is believing that the DJ is the center of the universe. He's not. The club as a universe is at best a decentralized mass of stars. The best clubs in the world realize this and don't bet the farm on one element. Our Big Two, Space and Mansion, realize this and don't make the DJ the absolute center of attention. They spend time and money on decòr, visual elements, that sort of thing. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate DJ's skill and all, but the cult has got to go.

I can remember way back when, when the DJ booth was actually off to the side in most clubs. You could see him or her, and he or she could see out, but it was off to the side. If you remember the old Salvation, this was exactly how it was. Probably where the toner cartridges are now. Even Junior's booth at the old Twilo was off to the side.

Fracturing. More parties are cool, yes. What I mean is the fracturing of the crowd. People can't be stuck on one thing, like I've said. Live a little, take the 2007 Pod Challenge. Oh, and keep me in the loop on that, I can wedge it into my schedule at some point.

Ok, I get your dj worship take but I do usually go to see the dj do his thing. I also like hanging with peeps but for that I can invite them VIP to my house no cover. For example, on the dj booth being de-centralized, the first time I went to Nocturnal. I went and paid money to see Eddie Haliwell (main room, hard trance) and Infusion (on the patio). I was very annoyed dissapointed to not be able to see the dj from the floor and then he didn't even play at all which made it even worse. I just like to be able to look up and see them a little and even better, like James Zabiela or Donald Glaude, see them get into it and get the crowd into it at the same time. ;D As far as you going to an out of sorts event, you name the time and place since you are the one who works on these nights.

[Guest djjoncowan]

my two cents....

I think you have to consider who is involved in this debate...and the fact that it's on CJ....

For starters...this thread was started by a gentleman who hasn't set foot in a club in ages...he spews out a bunch of nonsense for attention,and frustrated industry folks jump on the opportunity to voice their own gripes...(myself included)

Truth is...the scene is fine.

I think this is simply a case where "the scene" is passing people by and they just dont realize it...Most of the "regulars" around here have most likely reduced their club outtings significantly...not because the scene is collapsing, but simply because life moves on...priorites change...people grow up, get jobs, partners, kids etc....Its a natural progression...

but what you're left with is, a bunch of folks who really dont go out, or represent the average clubber, coming on a message board and discussing theories and reasons why "it is'nt what it used to be"

guess what kids....that just makes you OLD! lol

You also have your self-serving elitists....who somehow have dissected house music into this segmented, sub-genre, scientific, holier than thou cult....which actually has nothing to do with the original idea behind it AT ALL...using words like GENUINE, UNDERGROUND, REAL, TRUE

I even read somehwere on this thread that its a good thing that house music is being "brought back to the small venues where it started..and where it belongs" HUH? so massive venues like The Warehouse, Paradise Garage ,Music Box, Sound Factory (later Twilo), Zanzibar, Red Zone, Pacha (Ibiza), Yellow, Zouk, Stereo, The Hacienda, Ministry...etc etc were just after thoughts?? ummm..no, they are the foundation...

There is a reason I choose not to get too caught up in messageboard BS and politics...it simply DOESN'T MATTER....I focus on one thing....dancefloors full of people willing to experience house music..

I'm out on the trenches week in and week out...live and breathe this music...and have since I was a teenager...its a HUGE part of my life (and the only thing I know I can count on)

I know Space is the butt of many jokes around here..especially the elitists'....but that will ALWAYS be the case...but...I know I see hundreds of young faces there every week eager to hear new music...Space probably does more volume than any other club in town...and the previlant format is house music..

You have Local Celebrity at Noc (along with guests), Aquabooty, Lust, Mansion bringing in DJs now on a regular basis, people like Loco and Clive showing up at Opium, Pawn Shop brings guests, DT monthly at Twilo along with several other guests, etc etc etc

yet we're here whining about the local scene??? and a collapse???

take a look around my friends...the scene is pretty healthy around here!

for Pete's sake...Bling is pointing to Dallas as an example of cities that have got it "going on"!!!! are you fucking kidding me?!?!?

just ask the Granite & Phunk guys!!!

I think we had a huge popularity spike among local DJs and promoters in recent years...Many new cats came on the scene as "house DJsand promoters" because it was THE popular genre in ALL the clubs for a bit (VIP venues included) It oversaturated "the scene" and now there is a cleansing process (there always is...and this isnt the first or last time) Cleansings arent free of casualties...but sometimes its necessary to filter out excess..

Those who remain true haven't a thing to worry about.

The music is the basis for all of this..and the music is doing JUST FINE!

(Am I the only one old enough to remember a time when the only choice you had in this town to hear House music was Danny T @ Cheers or Padilla @ Warsaw?!? being a straight guy this wasnt the MOST convenient of arrangements! Its funny to me to hear people bitching and moaning now)

LOL - think diaz may have also been at velvet, or was it the caves back then... scrarry memories... we are old oscar aren't we?? lol dead on with your comments though... people just like to hear themselves complain... its old

[Guest Marina22]

Good point Coach, but for the ignorant here what is the GMCVB? When I was at Mansion a week ago, it did seem that there was alot of tourists there. :-\ Maybe it was my imagination, the holiday weekend, or the fact that there wasn't that many people dancing. I heard a couple say how it was ridiculous that the club was mostly VIP, so I assume they had never been before.. As much as we may not like tourists, we have to accept the fact that they do aid in our clubbing world more than we think on a weekly basis. I wonder which club has the most tourist-based clientele? I dare say Mansion or Nikki Beach..

Greater Miami Convention & Visitors Bureau

And yes...people are tired of the VIP thing where you are made to feel like a lower form of life if you are not in the VIP section. You are made to feel like you are almost in a different club. It's terrible and needs to be addressed.

Thanks for the information. I am the first to not care about being amongst the crowd, but when I feel like cattle (Timo's night at Mansion) it's not a good feeling.. I usually rough it to other ppls standards but that night made you pissed off within the first half hour of being there, pure crap. >

[Oni1414777741]

I think Evan is dead on too. Most of us have been going out for a long time. Some more than others. And yes, there is definitely a change in the crowd every so often, i dont ever see the people i used to see when i went to the old space save for a couple here and there.

Personally, i dont think the scene is dead. NY clubs are packed, Miami clubs are packed and when i was at Space for Sasha the crowd was VERY young. Proof positive that there is a continuation of people interested in EDM.

I'm bored. Yes i said it, i'm bored. Even though I have the pick of amazing artists here in NY, plus the option to go to Miami any time i want.....i find it lacking. Not because of the music but because im simply dissatisfied with it all. I'm having more fun going to a cheesy club out in Ronkonkoma Long Island (for those of you not aware, thats in bumble fuck egypt, about 2 hours away from the city) than i do on a night at a NY or Miami club.

Why? Its different. Not stale. And its fun.

People need to stop trainspotting so much, how is that fun?? Stop dissecting the set and just enjoy it with your friends. As it should be.

Goddamn eitists. *lol*

[Guest michael^heaven]

You know what...I read the 1st post in this thread & couldn't help but . Not to chap but anyone who thinks the global club scene is dead needs to:

1)See a psychiatrist for your depression

2)Get out of your little, tiny box & travel

It's absolutely blowing up all over the world! Techno, for example, is HUGE...I mean HUGE in Germany, Eastern Europe, & Russia right now. I'm talking about massive outdoor festivals, mega clubs that kill it on Monday nights, crazy renegade sneak-a-roos under bridges & inside of tunnels, cozy lounges & bars...you name it!

In Holland, there are so many clubs popping up, it's unreal...house, techno, progressive, trance, whatever. You guys see the turnout for Awakenings & Sensations? Un-fucking-believable!

Of course, the UK is always a solid bet for anything & everything that is dance music. Dj bars in particular are the toast of the town right now.

So, perhaps you're discontent with the little bubble you squish yourself into but just because you're unhappy with your life, in particular, doesn't mean the club scene is collapsing. The only thing that is collapsing is your sense of adventure, the unwillingness to change, the lack of imagination, & the expansion of your mind.

(BTW...I'm directing the words you & your at anyone that shares the opinion of Barba-No-Saleena-Rino.)

Much love to all!!!

[Guest Hardline]

You know what...I read the 1st post in this thread & couldn't help but . Not to chap but anyone who thinks the global club scene is dead needs to:

1)See a psychiatrist for your depression

2)Get out of your little, tiny box & travel

It's absolutely blowing up all over the world! Techno, for example, is HUGE...I mean HUGE in Germany, Eastern Europe, & Russia right now. I'm talking about massive outdoor festivals, mega clubs that kill it on Monday nights, crazy renegade sneak-a-roos under bridges & inside of tunnels, cozy lounges & bars...you name it!

In Holland, there are so many clubs popping up, it's unreal...house, techno, progressive, trance, whatever. You guys see the turnout for Awakenings & Sensations? Un-fucking-believable!

Of course, the UK is always a solid bet for anything & everything that is dance music. Dj bars in particular are the toast of the town right now.

So, perhaps you're discontent with the little bubble you squish yourself into but just because you're unhappy with your life, in particular, doesn't mean the club scene is collapsing. The only thing that is collapsing is your sense of adventure, the unwillingness to change, the lack of imagination, & the expansion of your mind.

(BTW...I'm directing the words you & your at anyone that shares the opinion of Barba-No-Saleena-Rino.)

Much love to all!!!

word

[Guest vaughan]

LOL - think diaz may have also been at velvet, or was it the caves back then... scrarry memories... we are old oscar aren't we?? lol dead on with your comments though...

Damn... I think Velvet was the first club I went to when I came to Florida. I just remember walking down this long hallway to this "back room". Place was killer. I think Jimmy Franzo(sp) was the promoter.

All I can say... one place will be a beacon of hope for everyone....

DANNY TENAGLIA @ TWILO THIS FRIDAY

The one thing that EVERYONE missed... and no Coach, it's tourism, is that Nick, a.k.a. Saleen, a.k.a Barbarino simply enjoys fucking with evryone here and his post was done out of pure entertainment value. In other words, he was taking a piss at everyone, and it worked... he's back up in Broward, pissing his pants while eating his cheerios before heading to work. And there is always some truth in what he says (I can't believe I said that) because if there wasn't, it wouldn't get so much attention or debate.

I think a little spice is what makes things new and fresh and like Evan said, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Damn, I sure tried. I wouldn't call myself a "successful" promoter by any means, but I wasn't doing it for "Success". I truly LOVED the music, the people and seeing it positively affect peoples lives. It was never about money... fuck, I don't think I ever made a dollar when it's all said and done. But I didn't care. I got my rocks off by creating memories for myself. IF it wasn't for being an unsuccessful promoter, I would never have started my business ten years ago... which afforded me everything else I have in my life... To take it one step further... I never made a dime, but I did me the woman I married. The woman is about to give me a child... so was it all worth it... you bet it was... for the last two examples alone.

And if you read back... read between all the bullshit... the scene will NEVER die... it just grows up like the rest of us... and sometimes when WE grow up, life takes on new meaning and your priorities shift... things THANKFULLY evolve and it's the one thing Oscar says that I wholeheartedly agree with...

I think this is simply a case where "the scene" is passing people by and they just dont realize it...Most of the "regulars" around here have most likely reduced their club outtings significantly...not because the scene is collapsing, but simply because life moves on...priorites change...people grow up, get jobs, partners, kids etc....Its a natural progression...

It's ironic you say that... last week at Pawn Shop, a well-known, world-travelling dj and producer who has been around since the days of Paradise Garage, caught my ear for a while... and he kept telling me how things have changed.. .and "back when he was doin' his thing..." etc, etc, etc... I was like damn dude... wake up old man and smell what's under your nose. Look over at the packed floor and see all the people dancing on the table... It just made me realize (and agree with Oscar) that it's right there under our noses... but it's just passing us by... me included.

Hello... My name is Vaughan... I'm a househead

[Bling]

btw when i refered to nyc, san fran, dallas, etc. i am refering to the underground scene.

we all know that san fran, nyc and chicago will always have a really strong mainstream nightlife industry.

to me underground is exactly what it is. BYOB.. warehouse parties where people go for the music and if they break even or even make some sort of profit.. thats just an added bonus...

only ones i see in this city that at least is mentioned on this board is

joe's warehouse parties........and the residence parties

i also want to highlight something marina said a while back about mansion when she went to hear timo maas

I can comprehend it from both sides of the coin

VIP crowd spends the $$$ so Mansion ropes off most of the main room to cater to that crowd. Is that bad? Nope..

They bring in an underground dj to satiate the headz and bring in the cash at the same time by having a large VIP area

the problem is the undergound headz want to dance and when you have no dancing room available except at the far corner of the room behind the couches. which is a veritable clusterfuck of people going in and out of vip.. or the stairs in front of the ivy room then yeah people will voice their opinion.

personally this is why i go to small hole in the wall places and avoid larger venues.

Hell I like Roger Sanchez but i havent gone to see him at space only because i like to actually have dancing room. being shoved around from one corner of the patio to the other because its slammed is not my idea of a good time.

blame my old ass i guess.... so be it.. yeah i said it im OLD lol

yah i wont see a PVD, Tiesto or Danny Tenagalia play at Blue or Laundry bar but at least ill have room to dance..

course these venues bring in djs that cater more to the music heads as well becuase they can (they dont have the high overhead costs that pod has mentioned before... etc)

space will always pack it in...... cameo will pack it in..... mansion will continue to dominate the hip hop scene on sobe.

life goes on.......

[Guest vaughan]

I blame it on Radio (LOL)

the U.K. can fit in the size of Texas... and EVERYONE listens to stations like Radio 1 and KISS. So when an entire nation(the size of Texas) tunes in to only one or two radio stations, and hear dance music ALL the time... it pretty much dictates what is popular...

This post isn't a complaint... I just wish it had gotten a lot MORE support on the radio in the States all the years it was popular... Yes, Yes, I know about NYC and L.A.... but I mean Radio 1 captures an ENTIRE nation at atime and then some. Our Stations run from the Keys to West Palm if we're lucky.

[Bling]

"I never made a dime, but I did me the woman I married. The woman is about to give me a child... so was it all worth it... you bet it was... for the last two examples alone. "

MAZEL TOV V... Congratulations.. Your son or daughter is gonna have some nice eyes and good taste in music for sure

in the end thats what its all about. starting a family with the one you love. thats what life is all about. .why God put us on this planet. to meet our soulmate like you have with Nicole.. share yourself with that one special person that you cannot with anyone else and that love and happiness ultimatley leading to bringing a child into this world.

its a beautiful thing... that thing called life.... sometimes we all have to sit back and smell the roses ... myself included and enjoy the blessings that God bestows upon us.

[Guest mr. wilkins]

my two cents....

I think you have to consider who is involved in this debate...and the fact that it's on CJ....

For starters...this thread was started by a gentleman who hasn't set foot in a club in ages...he spews out a bunch of nonsense for attention,and frustrated industry folks jump on the opportunity to voice their own gripes...(myself included)

Truth is...the scene is fine.

I think this is simply a case where "the scene" is passing people by and they just dont realize it...Most of the "regulars" around here have most likely reduced their club outtings significantly...not because the scene is collapsing, but simply because life moves on...priorites change...people grow up, get jobs, partners, kids etc....Its a natural progression...

but what you're left with is, a bunch of folks who really dont go out, or represent the average clubber, coming on a message board and discussing theories and reasons why "it is'nt what it used to be"

guess what kids....that just makes you OLD! lol

You also have your self-serving elitists....who somehow have dissected house music into this segmented, sub-genre, scientific, holier than thou cult....which actually has nothing to do with the original idea behind it AT ALL...using words like GENUINE, UNDERGROUND, REAL, TRUE

I even read somehwere on this thread that its a good thing that house music is being "brought back to the small venues where it started..and where it belongs" HUH? so massive venues like The Warehouse, Paradise Garage ,Music Box, Sound Factory (later Twilo), Zanzibar, Red Zone, Pacha (Ibiza), Yellow, Zouk, Stereo, The Hacienda, Ministry...etc etc were just after thoughts?? ummm..no, they are the foundation...

There is a reason I choose not to get too caught up in messageboard BS and politics...it simply DOESN'T MATTER....I focus on one thing....dancefloors full of people willing to experience house music..

I'm out on the trenches week in and week out...live and breathe this music...and have since I was a teenager...its a HUGE part of my life (and the only thing I know I can count on)

I know Space is the butt of many jokes around here..especially the elitists'....but that will ALWAYS be the case...but...I know I see hundreds of young faces there every week eager to hear new music...Space probably does more volume than any other club in town...and the previlant format is house music..

You have Local Celebrity at Noc (along with guests), Aquabooty, Lust, Mansion bringing in DJs now on a regular basis, people like Loco and Clive showing up at Opium, Pawn Shop brings guests, DT monthly at Twilo along with several other guests, etc etc etc

yet we're here whining about the local scene??? and a collapse???

take a look around my friends...the scene is pretty healthy around here!

for Pete's sake...Bling is pointing to Dallas as an example of cities that have got it "going on"!!!! are you fucking kidding me?!?!?

just ask the Granite & Phunk guys!!!

I think we had a huge popularity spike among local DJs and promoters in recent years...Many new cats came on the scene as "house DJsand promoters" because it was THE popular genre in ALL the clubs for a bit (VIP venues included) It oversaturated "the scene" and now there is a cleansing process (there always is...and this isnt the first or last time) Cleansings arent free of casualties...but sometimes its necessary to filter out excess..

Those who remain true haven't a thing to worry about.

The music is the basis for all of this..and the music is doing JUST FINE!

(Am I the only one old enough to remember a time when the only choice you had in this town to hear House music was Danny T @ Cheers or Padilla @ Warsaw?!? being a straight guy this wasnt the MOST convenient of arrangements! Its funny to me to hear people bitching and moaning now)

LOL - think diaz may have also been at velvet, or was it the caves back then... scrarry memories... we are old oscar aren't we?? lol dead on with your comments though... people just like to hear themselves complain... its old

It was Velvet for Mr. Diaz back then (the craves may have been just b4 my time)

and OG (Am I the only one old enough to remember a time when the only choice you had in this town to hear House music was Danny T @ Cheers or Padilla @ Warsaw?!?

-> you are not the only one kiddo... I use to drive down from Tampa for Warsaw on the wkends...... 1993..ouch!

[Guest pod]

The BBC just gets syndicated across the country, much like a big syndicated show does here in the US. If the US was a socialist democracy, we'd have a national radio network too like the BBC.

Right now, the US radio market can overcome that with satellite.

Also bear in mind the whole fact that the US spans six time zones and innumerable thoughts on "what's cool".

Anyway, dance music is an oddball form of music to your average Joe. First off, there's usually no vocals. Nothing to describe to your friends on how the song goes. Secondly, the person who produced that song usually isn't the one performing or playing it back. Essentially there's really no producer heroes or superstars. The respect as it is goes to the guy playing it back. The messenger. Whole different production and performance model. It will take time for your average Joe to get used to that. But I think he will. After all, people tune into radio shows all the time based on the guy behind the mic.

Bling-blong. At least now you realize that commercialization and large venues aren't a bad thing. They are needed to support a scene overall. Don't listen to your "friends" in the holes in the wall. Just think about it economically.

[Bling]

The BBC just gets syndicated across the country, much like a big syndicated show does here in the US. If the US was a socialist democracy, we'd have a national radio network too like the BBC.

Right now, the US radio market can overcome that with satellite.

Also bear in mind the whole fact that the US spans six time zones and innumerable thoughts on "what's cool".

Anyway, dance music is an oddball form of music to your average Joe. First off, there's usually no vocals. Nothing to describe to your friends on how the song goes. Secondly, the person who produced that song usually isn't the one performing or playing it back. Essentially there's really no producer heroes or superstars. The respect as it is goes to the guy playing it back. The messenger. Whole different production and performance model. It will take time for your average Joe to get used to that. But I think he will. After all, people tune into radio shows all the time based on the guy behind the mic.

Bling-blong. At least now you realize that commercialization and large venues aren't a bad thing. They are needed to support a scene overall. Don't listen to your "friends" in the holes in the wall. Just think about it economically.

its not that i think its a good or bad thing its just that i dont feel the need to bitch anymore about commercialization etc. "out of sight out of mind.. i just wont go to those parties." (and i havent for the most part)... will i be missed. hell no...... lol

but economically yeah .. hip hop is the way to go... and the occasional tiesto/pvd/roger sanchez..etc these parties will constantly bring in crowds...

because they are names people throw around all the time.. the masses know the name they go out. does that necessarily mean they are better than dj box of rocks... no..... it just means they are promoted well. or need no promotion at this point quite frankly

personally i want to go to the hole in the wall venues, personally i will still follow AB, Lust, or the house party here and there that Gryphon and LB throw down.

is the hip hop culture thing in miami bad? no and yes.

u all think im picky about house.. dont get me started on hip hop..

i like hip hop but not the stuff they play on the radio or what is played in most clubs.

[Guest Editor]

LOL - think diaz may have also been at velvet, or was it the caves back then

Rain

Groovejet

Velvet (second location for Velvet. Original was 634 Collins)

WOW Bar II

Byblos (Louis Canales)

Boomerang (Erinn Cosby)

The Cave

Joseph's on the Beach (1989)

Dinky’s (1975 disco)

Patsy's Place (1953-1961)

[Guest pod]

Bling, you still do give a shit, otherwise on the few times you go out, you'd just go wherever your group said to go.

Here in Miami, hip-hop happens to be the easiest to promote. If you know what you're doing and cater to more than just the trainspotters, you can have a successful dance night too.

[Guest tekniQz]

You forgot Morillo.

[Guest pod]

Love him or hate him, he's arguably the most successful American DJ right now. Hell, his parties are one of the few dance parties that have star power.

[Guest coach]

The one thing that EVERYONE missed... and no Coach, it's tourism, is that Nick, a.k.a. Saleen, a.k.a Barbarino simply enjoys fucking with evryone here and his post was done out of pure entertainment value.

Yeah, I caught that. It's still an interesting topic, though. I think everyone who has been on this board more than a few days realizes that.

[Guest pod]

Entertainment value, yeah. But definitely people should take a lot of what has been discussed here into consideration. The dance scene isn't dead, but it does need our help.

Not to play devil's advocate here, but I'd like to think Barbarino has the best interests of clubland at heart. I've seen him out before, and unlike a lot of people, he tends to make the best out of any situation and enjoy himself. "Shit Pod, this DJ is horrid, but the bitches are hot, let's get a beer..."

OK, I've got a question to pitch here. What would it take for everyone to lighten up and have fun? I'll be honest, I miss the days where this forum community would go out and have a good time. I'm talking like 2 years ago here. Nowadays it seems a lot of us are marred in (to bastardize a term) sectarian disputes, if you will.

Take a look at the older galleries for some pointers.

[Bling]

Entertainment value, yeah. But definitely people should take a lot of what has been discussed here into consideration. The dance scene isn't dead, but it does need our help.

Not to play devil's advocate here, but I'd like to think Barbarino has the best interests of clubland at heart. I've seen him out before, and unlike a lot of people, he tends to make the best out of any situation and enjoy himself. "Shit Pod, this DJ is horrid, but the bitches are hot, let's get a beer..."

OK, I've got a question to pitch here. What would it take for everyone to lighten up and have fun? I'll be honest, I miss the days where this forum community would go out and have a good time. I'm talking like 2 years ago here. Nowadays it seems a lot of us are marred in (to bastardize a term) sectarian disputes, if you will.

Take a look at the older galleries for some pointers.

Edgar V @ Crobar.. nuff said.......

or the massive meetups at Nerve

[djoscarg]

btw when i refered to nyc, san fran, dallas, etc. i am refering to the underground scene.

we all know that san fran, nyc and chicago will always have a really strong mainstream nightlife industry.

to me underground is exactly what it is. BYOB.. warehouse parties where people go for the music and if they break even or even make some sort of profit.. thats just an added bonus...

only ones i see in this city that at least is mentioned on this board is

joe's warehouse parties........and the residence parties

i also want to highlight something marina said a while back about mansion when she went to hear timo maas

I can comprehend it from both sides of the coin

VIP crowd spends the $$$ so Mansion ropes off most of the main room to cater to that crowd. Is that bad? Nope..

They bring in an underground dj to satiate the headz and bring in the cash at the same time by having a large VIP area

the problem is the undergound headz want to dance and when you have no dancing room available except at the far corner of the room behind the couches. which is a veritable clusterfuck of people going in and out of vip.. or the stairs in front of the ivy room then yeah people will voice their opinion.

personally this is why i go to small hole in the wall places and avoid larger venues.

Hell I like Roger Sanchez but i havent gone to see him at space only because i like to actually have dancing room. being shoved around from one corner of the patio to the other because its slammed is not my idea of a good time.

blame my old ass i guess.... so be it.. yeah i said it im OLD lol

yah i wont see a PVD, Tiesto or Danny Tenagalia play at Blue or Laundry bar but at least ill have room to dance..

course these venues bring in djs that cater more to the music heads as well becuase they can (they dont have the high overhead costs that pod has mentioned before... etc)

space will always pack it in...... cameo will pack it in..... mansion will continue to dominate the hip hop scene on sobe.

life goes on.......

HUH?!?!?!:

underground?

warehouses?

byob?

Dallas?

underground headz?

room to dance?

mainstream nightlife industry?

commercialization?

Bling...are you serious?!?

if it wasn't for the very things you criticize...you wouldn't even be aware of this scene you claim alliegeance to...

When you discovered EDM a few years back...and you were listening to PVD, Armin, Tiesto etc... at Ultra with 20,000 people smashed up against you and you had your hands in the air worshipping while wearing your custom "I love Trance" t-shirt....you had no fucking clue about these things you speak of now..BUT, thanks to that scene, you found this music and this scene.....so why knock it?

the way I see it is....

The Tiestos, PVDs, Morillos etc......are a very important part of this...they are the gateway drug...They are an introduction to a culture which at this point is pretty rich with talent...

I love this music...and as an artist I want EVERYONE to experience my music...I dont care who they are or how underground they claim to be..

If they are on the floor while Im playing house music...they're cool with me!!

[Guest pod]

Sad to say, even Edgar at crobar was "sectarian" if you will. The people nominally affiliated with house wouldn't show for that event. It was a fun party though.

Nerve, yeah, those were fun times. Downside of course was the inevitable course music-only venues follow in this town.

[Guest djjoncowan]

Entertainment value, yeah. But definitely people should take a lot of what has been discussed here into consideration. The dance scene isn't dead, but it does need our help.

Not to play devil's advocate here, but I'd like to think Barbarino has the best interests of clubland at heart. I've seen him out before, and unlike a lot of people, he tends to make the best out of any situation and enjoy himself. "Shit Pod, this DJ is horrid, but the bitches are hot, let's get a beer..."

OK, I've got a question to pitch here. What would it take for everyone to lighten up and have fun? I'll be honest, I miss the days where this forum community would go out and have a good time. I'm talking like 2 years ago here. Nowadays it seems a lot of us are marred in (to bastardize a term) sectarian disputes, if you will.

Take a look at the older galleries for some pointers.

Edgar V @ Crobar.. nuff said.......

or the massive meetups at Nerve

bling, those spots are way too new too the stuff we are referring to... that was already when sobe was on its demise and this is coming from one of the owners of nerve.... you need to go back to warsaw, groovejet, la bain, parragon, even bash in the early 90's to see the scene we are referring too... crobar and shadow snuck in at the very end but that was when clubbing in sobe was already in its downward trend unfortunately....... bring back the briars! (groovejet)

[Guest mursa]

lol...Bling got owned ! , bout time .

[Guest pod]

Jon,

Unfortunately not everyone was around back in those days. The average "club age" of the people on this board is maybe reaching back to '02 at most. Average age. There's some that have been around for far longer.

I think it is funny though when some people treat, say '04, as "back in the day".