How Muslim Countries View America

[nycmuzik]

From CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/gallup.muslims/index.html

PRINCETON, New Jersey (CNN) -- Residents of nine Muslim countries called the United States "ruthless and arrogant" in a new poll, with most describing themselves as "resentful" of the superpower.

The Gallup poll found that by a 2-to-1 margin, residents in these nations express an unfavorable opinion of the United States, and a majority also indicated their displeasure with President Bush.

Most Muslims surveyed expressed the view that the September 11 terrorist attacks on the United States were not justified morally, but larger majorities labeled U.S. military action in Afghanistan "morally unjustifiable."

Sixty-one percent said they did not believe Arab groups carried out the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Researchers conducted face-to-face interviews with 9,924 residents of Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia, Turkey, Lebanon, Morocco, Kuwait, Jordan and Saudi Arabia to gauge public opinion in those countries following the September 11 attacks. About half of the world's Muslim population lives in those nine countries. Not every question was asked in every nation.

The overall view was not a positive one for the United States: 53 percent of the people questioned had unfavorable opinions of the United States, while 22 percent had favorable opinions.

Most respondents said they thought the United States was aggressive and biased against Islamic values. Specifically, they cited a bias against Palestinians.

They also view American values as deeply materialist and secular and American culture as a corrupting influence on their societies, the poll found.

Residents of Lebanon had the highest favorable opinion of the United States, at 41 percent, followed by NATO ally Turkey with 40 percent. The lowest numbers came from Pakistan, at 5 percent.

Twenty-eight percent of Kuwaitis, 27 percent of Indonesians, 22 percent of Jordanians, 22 percent of Moroccans, 16 percent of Saudi Arabians and 14 percent of Iranians surveyed had a favorable view of the United States.

On Bush, 58 percent of those surveyed had unfavorable opinions, compared with 11 percent who had favorable views.

Of those surveyed, 67 percent saw the September 11 attacks as morally unjustified, while 15 percent of the respondents said they were morally justified. But 77 percent said the U.S. military action in Afghanistan was morally unjustified, compared with 9 percent who said it was morally justified.

The interviews were conducted between December and January. The respondents were randomly selected and did not know a U.S. firm was sponsoring the poll.

Gallup said the sampling error was plus or minus 1 percentage point for questions asked in all nine countries and plus or minus 4 percentage points for questions broken down by individual nations.

--------------------

Nothing too surprising. Just thought I might share.......

[breaksny]

I can't believe I'm quoting him, but as Reagan would say, "There U go again." Well @ least it's starting a discussion, but I doubt that'll last.

[nycmuzik]

Originally posted by breaksny

I can't believe I'm quoting him, but as Reagan would say, "There U go again." Well @ least it's starting a discussion, but I doubt that'll last.

I'll agree with you on that. These topics turn from discussion's into bashing people pretty quickly. Hopefully that wont happen......

[wallflour]

They'll probably hate the US no matter what the US does, never mind already buying (and protecting) all that oil, giving all that foreign aid, and letting them attend schools here

Maybe it's because we're better... and their governments won't fess up that they're the reason life sucks so much for their people...

Check this out:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105001688

[breaksny]

Told u.

[momadance]

how do you expect them to feal towards us after generations of propaganda and lies??

if you father, brothers and uncles all hated something, odds are that you would hate it too, and see nothing wrong with it. you might even try to hate that thing even more than they do to gain acceptance.

[tribal]

the results arent surprising. there is a tremendous misconception in those countries regarding US lifestyle and policy. much of this misconception comes from the deeply bigoted local state media. Lebanon voted the way they did due to its rather cosmopolitan mix of population, it is after all the most Western arab country. did anyone hear of the new SArabia peace proposal?? sounds promising, but then again im so skeptical with these people, you give them the perfect proposal, they will find a way to fuck it up.

[idrthrbclbng]

"Sixty-one percent said they did not believe Arab groups carried out the September 11 terrorist attacks."

No, no, they couldn't possibly have done it. Having trouble understanding this one. I guess it's called DENIAL.

"Twenty-eight percent of Kuwaitis surveyed had a favorable view of the United States"

28%? That's great. This statistic would be pooled with Iraq had it not been for us.

[bigpoppanils]

jealousy is a bitch sometimes

[tranzmuzik2k1]

i,m not suprised, there not very open minded because for years they've been brainwashed to think that Americans are the infidels and we are the result of their problems...... when in fact thats total bullshit, because those nations have been having wars and other problems for centuries, especially over land. the U.S. did some fucked up shit in its history, but we also did some good shit, and i think those nations are looking for someone to blame for their messed up issues thats been going on for hundreds of years.

[breaksny]

Ya and there's a terrible misconception on this board about those societies as well. But whatever most of u have yer heads too far up yer butts to ever understand that.

[karch]

The USA ain't all that good. They give 5.5 billion dollars to ISrael. That's thats more then the whole continent of Africa. And Israel murdered how many muslims in muslim countries. When the USA supports and funds countries like that... what do you expect, the whole world to love the US? Everyone thinks the US is helping the whole world, that's not true. The help is going to the wrong places and not to the people that are really in need. Such as Africa.

[karch]

oh yeah... also not to mention the 35,000 INNOCENT Iraqi civilians the US killed in the Persian Gulf War.

And the 4,000+ INNOCENT Afghani civilians they killed from US bombs...that's about the number of people that died on 9/11.

[breaksny]

Well @ least the argument is getting a lil more balanced now.

[abortionator]

If you wanna make an omlette, you gotta break some eggs.

[breaksny]

Uhhh...yummy food.

[tribal]

karch do you have any clue what youve said?

israel murdered muslims in many muslim countries? are you referring to people like abu nidal, the terrorist that planned the tel aviv disco bombings? bro, read the article that wallflowr posted above, the WSJ article, get a better understanding before you say stupid shit like that.

poor US-mistreated arab states, its not their fault theyre repressed, violent and poor, no, its us, the evil americans.

[breaksny]

No I think he means, or could anyway, the 19,000 Palestinian refugees Israel's current PM killed in Lebanaon, for example. The only stupid shit is stuff like you post Tribal if you don't realize the fact that Israel's killed far more people than it's lost, @ least in the last decades in places like Lebanon and the occupied territories. No one's denying many innocent Israelis and Americans haven't lost their lives, as well many less innocent members of their militaries, but the losses on the Palestinian and Lebanese side @ least have been far higher. Add up the numbers yourself. It figures the war criminal now in office would be the bonehead to get his country stuck in a new quagmire that might take it a couple decades to get out of, just like he did b4 in Lebanon.

[t0nythelover]

oh boy i know im gonna get shit for this but i dont care if you want to kill the messenger. the us is arrogant and ruthless. the us robs from other countries and has been doing it for years. the us is nothing more than a government by the rich for the rich exploiting any one they can in the name of "protecting us interest". fuck the monroe doctrine, fuck the school of the americas, and fuck the us government and foreign policy. dont think i hate the us, i love it, but people have to see the difference between the us government and the us people. the us oppresses us everyday and we dont see it. mandatory drug laws have soooo many people jailed for no real reason, meanwhile the government spends millions of dollars trying to secure our interest overseas. fuck that, i dont think ill care if my shoes cost more because they are not made by some 5 year old indonesian kid working for thirty cents and hour. people think its bad to criticize the government but look at martin luther king, man sometimes you just have to tell it like it is and right now the united states is doing alot of fucked up shit. a war on terrorist should be a war on the united states. the school of the americas is run by the us on american soil teaching "revolutionaries" how to fight. then when they turn the guns we paid for on us trying to get their freedom they are "terrorist" and thats just bullshit. we trained kuwaitis how to fight sadam hussein and left them to get slaughtered by his troops. the us has had embargos that basically make sure the poor and children starve in the middle east. think about who the real terrorist are when you all turn to mtv and watch britney spears or some other pop fuck or some athlete getting paid 20 million dollars. think about who the real terrorist is when you see enron fucking the american people in the ass tobacco companies killing the american public for years. were the us considering themselves terrorist when they robbed the native americans of their land, or stole from mexico? even today civilians have been killled by us bombs in vieques puerto rico. wtf its cool for us to bomb puerto rico and kill innocent people yet when the us is bombed its terrorist. just so you all know its not just the middle east that hates the us ITS THE REST OF THE WORLD everyone hates the us cuz we are imperialistic fucks. we allow creature comforts to appease us while we are fucking cows for the capitalist structure. we are raised to be consumers from birth. first its school which prepares you for college, then its college to prepare yourself for a job, which allows you to buy useless shit you dont need. do we need televisions, 2way pagers, fancy clothes, fancy cars or half the shit we buy. i want you all to think real hard about what im saying. would you be able to tell the young kid in the sweat shop that he has to work there because you need to have the newest set of jordans for as cheap as possible. could you tell the mother of a starving child that he will die because our politics are keeping food away from the people? i cant because i have a conscience.

[breaksny]

Wow all us leftists r comin outta the woordwork. It's about time. U know, I expect an angry retort from Tribal and possibly others to what I and others have said, but maybe we could get this back on track in regard to the original topic of the thread. Why do many Moslem societies have a beef with the US? My bad as well for going off track on that, if I did.

[karch]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

oh boy i know im gonna get shit for this but i dont care if you want to kill the messenger. the us is arrogant and ruthless. the us robs from other countries and has been doing it for years. the us is nothing more than a government by the rich for the rich exploiting any one they can in the name of "protecting us interest". fuck the monroe doctrine, fuck the school of the americas, and fuck the us government and foreign policy. dont think i hate the us, i love it, but people have to see the difference between the us government and the us people. the us oppresses us everyday and we dont see it. mandatory drug laws have soooo many people jailed for no real reason, meanwhile the government spends millions of dollars trying to secure our interest overseas. fuck that, i dont think ill care if my shoes cost more because they are not made by some 5 year old indonesian kid working for thirty cents and hour. people think its bad to criticize the government but look at martin luther king, man sometimes you just have to tell it like it is and right now the united states is doing alot of fucked up shit. a war on terrorist should be a war on the united states. the school of the americas is run by the us on american soil teaching "revolutionaries" how to fight. then when they turn the guns we paid for on us trying to get their freedom they are "terrorist" and thats just bullshit. we trained kuwaitis how to fight sadam hussein and left them to get slaughtered by his troops. the us has had embargos that basically make sure the poor and children starve in the middle east. think about who the real terrorist are when you all turn to mtv and watch britney spears or some other pop fuck or some athlete getting paid 20 million dollars. think about who the real terrorist is when you see enron fucking the american people in the ass tobacco companies killing the american public for years. were the us considering themselves terrorist when they robbed the native americans of their land, or stole from mexico? even today civilians have been killled by us bombs in vieques puerto rico. wtf its cool for us to bomb puerto rico and kill innocent people yet when the us is bombed its terrorist. just so you all know its not just the middle east that hates the us ITS THE REST OF THE WORLD everyone hates the us cuz we are imperialistic fucks. we allow creature comforts to appease us while we are fucking cows for the capitalist structure. we are raised to be consumers from birth. first its school which prepares you for college, then its college to prepare yourself for a job, which allows you to buy useless shit you dont need. do we need televisions, 2way pagers, fancy clothes, fancy cars or half the shit we buy. i want you all to think real hard about what im saying. would you be able to tell the young kid in the sweat shop that he has to work there because you need to have the newest set of jordans for as cheap as possible. could you tell the mother of a starving child that he will die because our politics are keeping food away from the people? i cant because i have a conscience.

[t0nythelover]

dude its not just muslim countries thats what people dont get, most of the world hates the us. if u ever travel in europe youll understand.

[breaksny]

They don't hate us in Western Europe, they're just alot more liberal than we are politically and in many ways socially too. Even most of the so called conservatives. Though in Russia and Eastern Europe, it's a different story.

[tribal]

tony i dont know where you travelled, but the rest of the world does not hate us. there are elements in every country that lay blame on US for shortcomings in their own societies. the rest of the world does not hate US, you are getting that assumption from your ass. many of the points you said are completely off, for example our sanctions on Iraq. we are killing innocent iraqis? oh so thats how it is. or did you not know that saddam buys weapons with the money he earns from the oil that they do sell, instead of food and medicine for his people. idiot, think logically, if we were to not put those sanctions on his ass, what do you think would happen? would the children of iraq be well fed and clothed??? or would saddam finally complete the nuclear warheads he has such a hard on for? read a book by Scott Ritter called Endgame, maybe you will understand issues a bit better, before you yap stupid shit like US is the 'oppressor'. read the article posted by wallflour earlier, it explains perfectly how i feel about this entire issue, and then try to debate me.

[nycmuzik]

Something that tonythelover said that stuck out for me was that people dont see the difference between the gov't and the people. That right there is the biggest problem today. American citizens are targeted in many Muslim countries just because they're American. Look at Daniel Pearl. He was murdered for that reason alone. How many foreign journalists have been kidnapped and murdered in the US? None. And as much as much as you might disagree with me on this, I feel that the US public is alot less hostile toward Muslims then they are towards us. I know that someone will say the US has done so much more to fuck up their lives than they've done to us.

This brings me to another point I want to make concerning our govt's involvment oversea's. From a military standpoint it is close to impossible for the US to do any type of fighting on a small scale. Doing that would mean involving US troops. Then there would be casualties. And naturally there would be pressure from the US public to stop it because they dont want to see dead Americans. An example of this is Mogadishu, Somalia in 1993. An African nation in which thousands were dying each day so the UN came in and tried to help out. It was all going well until the warlords that ran the city, there was no formal gov't, decided to start attacking the UN. They did this because they were losing their power which they kept until that point by starving the people. So the US sent Rangers and Delta's to capture Aidid, the warlord who was causing most of the problems. All the raids went off well until October 3 of that year. 2 US choppers were shot down and 18 Americans lost their lives while capturing 2 top clan leaders. So what happens. Instead of staying and finishing the mission like most of the soldiers wanted, they are pulled out because there is pressure on the gov't back home from the public to get them the hell out of there. Ever since then the US has been hesitant to deploy US forces overseas. (The Rawanda genocide is an example of this) So instead of groud forces, the US used its air power when it went into Afghanistan. And unfortunetly innocent people were killed. But there was no way this could have been prevented from the US standpoint. This was all brought on by Bin Laden when he attacked the US. He knew that the US would strike back like this. Sitting back and not doing anything is only inviting more attacks on the US.

As far as Iraq is concerned. People mention the number of civilians killed by the US more than the number killed by Saddam. This guy aint no Mother Teresa. As much as I hate to see people get killed, the sanctions were put there to protect the US public. They prevent the Iraqi gov't from getting money to buildup their nuclear and chemical arsenal's. And Saddam has proved in the past that he's willing to use these weapons of mass destruction. Anyone remember the war with Iran from 1980-88. Or the Anfal campain against the Iraqi Kurds in the late 1980's. And the genocide against the Marsh and Shia Arabs in Southern Iraq.

Now I'm probably gonna get blasted by certain people for what I said. But if you're gonna do that than at least provide a good solution to the problems. Bitching and moaning about it aint gonna do shit.......