How Muslim Countries View America

[dusted]

What kind of an obsequious little sychophant are you anyway? You would actually sit there and listen to your supposed friends talk shit about the country that you come from, and you won't say a word to defend it? With citizens like you, who needs Osama Bin Laden!

Do you think these people would sit by and allow you to dis their countries? You'd probably get a punch in the jaw.

Try having a little fucking self respect.

[t0nythelover]

people should be allowed to talk shit. remember voltaire "i may not always agree with what you say but i will always defend your right to say it" even the founding fathers thought criticism of goverment was importan and they created the usa! also george washington said "beware foreign entanglements" and he was right!

[sassa]

[

[sassa]

Originally posted by sassa

I'm not from the States. Chill the fuck out. I will talk about what I know, but not talk shit about something that I have no clue about...unlike yourself....I probably know more about this country's political system and history more than you could ever hope for...plus I've been to 30 states...can you say the same thing? No, I didn't think so...

[bigpoppanils]

Originally posted by dusted

FYI: There is no such thing as a non-tyrannical Muslim government. There is no such thing as democracy in the Muslim world.

if a nation isnt a democracy doesnt mean its tyrannical

Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Norway, Sweden, and Brunei come to mind

and inst Zimbabwe a democracy?

[dusted]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

people should be allowed to talk shit. remember voltaire "i may not always agree with what you say but i will always defend your right to say it" even the founding fathers thought criticism of goverment was importan and they created the usa! also george washington said "beware foreign entanglements" and he was right!

I ain't buying it. I think you were afraid to stand up for yourself, because deep down, you're ashamed to be American. So you let this trash talk shit about your country. Pathetic really.

[dusted]

Sweden is a constitutional monarchy. Are you trying to tell me that Saudi Arabia and Brunei are not tyrannical regimes?

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by dusted

I ain't buying it. I think you were afraid to stand up for yourself, because deep down, you're ashamed to be American. So you let this trash talk shit about your country. Pathetic really.

tell me why would i defend a country that opresses my race and me? im going to defend the nation that arrested me because im not white. im going to defend the nation that is bombing my friends in puerto rico? you really think i was afraid?

[dusted]

Then why do you live in a country that oppresses you? Why not move somewhere else?

Cause you're living the good life here, thats why. Like I said before, you're a mooch.

Why not go live in a country that you would feel comfortable defending?

[t0nythelover]

Originally posted by dusted

Then why do you live in a country that oppresses you? Why not move somewhere else?

Cause you're living the good life here, thats why. Like I said before, you're a mooch.

Why not go live in a country that you would feel comfortable defending?

why would i move somewhere else if this is my home? im not gonna give up because people try to hold me down. you keep bringing up the idea that criticism of the united states is wrong and should be defended against, dude maybe you should try watching politically correct and youll see what its like when people speak there minds. im going to marine bootcamp this may. what are you doing to defend your country? sitting around and talking shit to people. good on ya mate.

[dusted]

Originally posted by t0nythelover

why would i move somewhere else if this is my home? im not gonna give up because people try to hold me down. you keep bringing up the idea that criticism of the united states is wrong and should be defended against, dude maybe you should try watching politically correct and youll see what its like when people speak there minds. im going to marine bootcamp this may. what are you doing to defend your country? sitting around and talking shit to people. good on ya mate.

I didn't say criticism was wrong. But when you have people dissing you to your face for being American, you should say something. Its unbelievably disrespectful and obnoxious.

You wouldn't let people talk shit about your mother would you?

And if you disagree so much with American foreign policy, then I wouldn't join the Marines if I were you, cause before you know it, you'll be getting sent to Afghanistan.

[t0nythelover]

people dont dis me about being an american, they say its fucked up and its true. its not my fault the country is fucked up. secondly i guess its true that you really arent doing ne thing to defend the usa. wipe your mouth cuz ur talkin shit.

[dusted]

And do you point out the faults and failings of their countries?

[kandekyd18]

God Bless America!

[nycmuzik]

Breaksny is probably sitting somewhere saying, I told ya so......

[breaksny]

Y would I say that?

[siceone]

Originally posted by dusted

And do you point out the faults and failings of their countries?

Dude tony has a big cock and he will smack you with it so shut the fuck up.

america is fucked up and I refuse to defend the fucked up shit our gov't does but shit the people of this country have more power to do good than anywhere else in the world in my opinion..

thomas jefferson said that there should be a revolution ever 200 years or so..

I think we are about due

[breaksny]

LOL "Tony has a big cock and he will smack u" ????

[t0nythelover]

(imitating kurt engle) its true its true.

[nycmuzik]

Originally posted by breaksny

I can't believe I'm quoting him, but as Reagan would say, "There U go again." Well @ least it's starting a discussion, but I doubt that'll last.

Like you said so originally, it hasnt lasted......

[breaksny]

O ya, well I won't say the magic words. I Guess I share part of the blame for that though. I followed the 1st couple pages of the thread, but then I lost interest as I saw most of the discourse wasn't going anywhere, and then degenerated into the typical CP racist drivel. There are some thoughtful, if not entirely open-minded conservatives on this thread and board, but I'd say they're a minority.

As for the poll, I think what it all basically boils down to is that while yes it's true that the local governments and medias in those countries do deflect popular criticism away from the authoritarian governments (be they monarchies or republics) in all the countries covered in the poll, people there aren't as stupid or naive as most Americans (and maybe most Israelis) wanna think they are. They don't support what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people, and they certainly don't support the Bush administation's effectively taking the Sharon government's side in the conflict. They also don't support the US supporting a military government in Pakistan (not to mention the monarchies and authoritarian governments in most of the countries that were surveyed as well), or bombing one Moslem country, Afghanistan, or effectively killing 100s of thousands of people via stringent economic sanctions on another, Iraq, over a 10 year period. That by no means is denying the roles played by the other side in each of those instances which has certainly likewise played a significant role in bringing about the sufferings of the Palestinian, Israeli, Afghan, and Iraqi people. But I think it's simplistic, not to mention narrow-minded, to deny the role the US has played in creating suffering in these countries. And the people surveyed have good reason to feel how they do, whether or not their medias are as open as ours is. I don't think people there like living under monarchies or authoritarian regimes anymore than people in North Korea do. But, for example, the Saudi government (despite the role it played in the creation of Al Qaeda) plays a key symbolic role as guardians of the holiest sites in Islam, a reason why their Crown Prince is the one presenting this new peace initiative for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I think Saudis know full well that they live under a monarchy, basically dependent on US military support, and that a good portion of their natural wealth goes to run our economy. Considering that the Palestinians are their religious, ethnic, and linguistic kin, not to mention traditional caretakers for the 3rd holiest site in Islam, and suffering more than nearly any other people in the Middle East (the Kurds aside), it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the US is the country that supports the country occupying their homeland. And that can quickly lead to compassion for the Palestinians, anger against what is being done to them, as well as to who is doing it to them, and thereby hatred of the latter party. I'm sure the dynamic works the same on the Jewish/Israeli side of the conflict toward Palestinian militants, and possibly their leadership, as well. Bottom line is, they have good reason for being angry, distrustful, and in more extreme cases hateful of American policies in the region.

[nycmuzik]

Very well said.....You got your point across without bashing anybody. Thats something that lacks on this board......

[thumping101]

The US is the worlds leading superpower for a reason. Its survival of the fittest. All governments are ruthless. Whoever controls the media and mass mentality rules, ie mental imperialism. I love my country, but formulate your own opinions instead of memorizing whats dictated to you on the news at 10 on Fox or from your textbooks.

No one is innocent.

Choose your own propaganda

[nycmuzik]

I guess Americans arent any different:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/04/u.s.muslim.poll/index.html

PRINCETON, New Jersey (CNN) -- About one quarter of Americans surveyed have a favorable view of Muslim nations and more than two-thirds believe those countries would be better off if they adopted Western values, according to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll.

The poll of 863 adults comes in the wake of a similar survey of nine Muslim nations that found widespread disapproval of the United States.

The two polls are virtual mirrors in their results: Most Americans surveyed said they believe Muslims don't respect Western values, and residents of such countries said the United States does not respect Islamic culture.

In this latest poll, conducted March 1-3, just under one-third of Americans surveyed said they believe all or most people in Muslim countries admire Osama bin Laden, and one-third said they believe Islam promotes more violence than other religions worldwide.

Seventy-one percent of those surveyed said they believe people in Muslim countries think the United States is at war with the Muslim world; only 34 percent of these Americans said they believe that is the case.

Of those surveyed, 24 percent had favorable opinions of Muslim nations; 41 percent had negative opinions.

When asked what they believe people in Muslim countries think of the United States, 82 percent of the Americans surveyed thought Muslim's opinions would be unfavorable, compared with 9 percent who thought their opinions would be favorable.

When asked why they thought those opinions were unfavorable, 78 percent blamed misinformation while 11 percent blamed U.S. actions.

The survey found that 68 percent believe Muslim countries would be better off if they adopted Western values.

The earlier survey of Muslim nations found most residents believed the United States was "arrogant" and was biased against Islamic culture.

If the survey is any indication, most Americans are not particularly worried about what the Muslim world thinks of them.

Twenty-four percent said Muslims' opinions did not matter much to them, and 23 percent said they had no interest at all in Muslims' opinions.

Almost a quarter of those surveyed said the opinions of people in Muslim countries mattered to them a great deal, and 29 percent said those opinions were moderately important.

Forty-one percent of those surveyed said they knew a moderate amount about Muslim countries, while 56 percent said they knew little or nothing at all.

The study found that 77 percent of respondents believed the U.S. military action in Afghanistan was morally justified; only 12 percent found it unjustified.

Gallup asked the same question in seven Muslim countries for its poll released last week and got very different responses. In none of those countries did a majority say that the war in Afghanistan was justified.

The survey had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

[tribal]

i like raspberry donuts and strawberries with whipped cream. mmm.